American V-Twin Comparison

[SilvrT]

Just in case anyone is interested....

 

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/compared--three-american-v-twin-touring-baggers-182647272.html

[Karaboo]

Great comparison. Wish they would have done more long distance rides, though. Interesting that none of them had very good gas mileage. The bike is no good for my 110 mile daily commute to work if my car gets the same mpg (and lower sticker price).

[SilvrT]

Great comparison. Wish they would have done more long distance rides, though. Interesting that none of them had very good gas mileage. The bike is no good for my 110 mile daily commute to work if my car gets the same mpg (and lower sticker price).

 

I dunno how they came up with thos gas mileage numbers ... I'm getting well over 40 on my XCT.

[djh3]

Milage they stated is about what I get with my RSV. I have thought since I got the bike the MPG aint great. My 900 that had to run at high RPM to keep up got around 50 MPG. My buddies Heritage got mid 40 to 50's. So I dont know about their numbers there. Maybe they had a few of those 0-60 passes figured in on that tank. Some of the remarks guys made about that article are well... funny. Like "you should have compared XYZ Harley and the price would have been...." Yea but knucklehead they were comparing top touring competitors. Bring your best in this range and see what you got. Besides us uneducated fellows see on Harley bagger and cant tell the difference between a classic, ultra classic, electra glide, on and on. I see no difference except the MSRP.

[Freebird]

I agree that their MPG figures are questionable. My Road Glide gets right at 40 MPG riding two up and pulling the Bushtec trailer fairly heavily loaded. I also think that their performance numbers are a bit low. Maybe not though. I've done the stage one on my Road Glide and that does make a difference.

[The Tooch]

to the V-Twin Forum!

 

Mr. Moderators should this not be moved to another Tech section?!

 

Nah! Thanks Freebird it is informative. The way Yamaha is about coming up with a replacement for the Venture......we will all probably have to go to a V-Twin sooner or later!

[SilvrT]

we will all probably have to go to a V-Twin sooner or later!

 

Nothin wrong with a V-twin ... there's a lot of 'em out there all doing quite well. Some think they won't get the mileage a V-4 or other engine styles will but really ... how many miles does the average owner put on a bike? Engine longevity doesn't appear to have a major impact on depreciation or resale value either. That said, would I buy a V-twin with over 100k miles vs a V-4 ... probably not but that all depends on condition, what's been done, price, etc, etc.

[The Tooch]

Yes, I agree with you. Just fooling around, poke fun.....all in fun.

 

If and when I can afford to buy something I would go Harley. I like them, they are better for reliability now then back in the day and there is good support for parts & service almost anywhere you go. I really like the other two bikes here but if you ever had a break down on the road with your Indian......good luck! Just check out the dealer network across Canada.....At best I think it is ONE per province, I don't find that very re-assuring and the Victory dealers are few and far between as well. Cause Polaris dealers aren't necessarily Victory dealers. But all three have there pros & Cons just personal choice. Love what you ride!

Edited March 22, 2015 by The Tooch

[midnightventure]

I used to ride with a friend that has a 2001 Electra Glide Standard. One of the first long trips we took together we both filled up at the same time twice in a row. It was amazing how close to the same mileage we got. Best I remember it was between 35 and 40. He got to fooling around with his single carb and ended up putting a jet in from a Sportster carb and got about 50 mpg. He was more interested in mileage than performance although it performed pretty well too. My bike was a year newer and he always seemed to put twice as many miles a year on as I did. I now have a little over 100,000 and the last I heard he had about 220,000.

[PBJ]

those bikes are all dreams but I lean towards the Victory. I like different. Of course at those prices and being retired I'll never see one in my garage. Unless a buddy with one parks it in there.LOL. Great Link thanks.

[SilvrT]

Yes, I agree with you. Just fooling around, poke fun.....all in fun.

 

If and when I can afford to buy something I would go Harley. I like them, they are better for reliability now then back in the day and there is good support for parts & service almost anywhere you go. I really like the other two bikes here but if you ever had a break down on the road with your Indian......good luck! Just check out the dealer network across Canada.....At best I think it is ONE per province, I don't find that very re-assuring and the Victory dealers are few are far between as well. Cause Polaris dealers aren't necessarily Victory dealers. But all three have there pros & Cons just personal choice. Love what you ride!

 

The reason there are so many Harley dealers and 3rd party shops that fix them is because they are the only ones that break down...

[cowpuc]

Well, I love me all,, GOOD ARTICLE SILV!!

I really really like the looks and feel of the new Indians. I think Polaris did a BEAUTIFUL job on the motor! Have ridden em a number of times and LOVE the ride!! I also LOVE the newer Vic's. I rode a Vision 8 Ball (think that what it was called) at a demo and I was AMAZED at how stable that thing was - most stable bike I have ever ridden!! All that said, there are a few things that would push me right back into Harleys lap..

For one thing, the last time I checked Polaris is still operating under the exclusitivity thing on their two breeds. You cant get help from a Vic shop for an Indian and vice versy.. For the life of me I dont understand why they are doing that - especially with the few and far between dealership network they both have (gotta agree with Tooch on this).. This may have changed but the last time I checked, a Vic dealer cant get parts and work on a broken Indian even if he wants to.. Harley shops are like Star Bucks on steriods..

Another big issue with me are "tweeking" necessities.. I LOVE all the different cam grinds, pipe selections, injector throttle bodies, roller rockers, over bore kits and on and on. I also LOVE Harley's Screamin Eagle Tuner, its expensive BUT it is AWESOME in its tweekability. The Vic 106 has been out for a while now and still no sign of even a factory tuner - that I know of.. For some reason, it seems like Polaris REALLY is serious about taking on The Motor Company and has not been shy about asking simular $ figures for their bikes but expecting people to pay those dollars and only get half the package that HD is offering just doesnt feel right..

Then there is the resale value, depreciation and all that stuff.. Stuff that probably really doesnt matter to most folks but I have been in the business for a good while. Because of that, I am always thinking resale numbers.. I have bought and sold a LOT of bikes thru the years and have always been amazed at how market predictability in this field seems to follow Harley.. If the value of Harley goes down,, the whole market (not collectable's) seems to follow.. Retail sales, trade in values and all that stuff also seem to fall toward HD being a better return..

A small example of this stuff could be obtained by looking at a purchase that Dingy just made on a MK2 1st Gen. Jump over to Craigs sales listings and take a look at what I am referring to. Not bad looking bike, they were asking 700 bucks, he got it for 500 dollars.. Had that of been a Harley of the same year (NOT A SPORTY 0 it would have been an EVO Big Twin) in the same condition - INSTANT 3500 all day long..

 

All that JABBER aside (and that is ALL it is), I would be PROUD to pound pavement and CTFW on ANY of the new breeds but my hat still tips in Harleys direction.. Of course,, there is NOTHING like a 1st Gen Venture and its a good thing they didnt include one in that article cause we ALL know what would have happened if they would have!!

[SilvrT]

I do agree with you puc and especially the parts about Victory and Indian being separate entities and that neither Victory or Indian have performance improvement offerings aside from an ECM reflash and Arlen Ness stuff; however, in defense, there are several 3rd party sources out there for the Vic and many of the dyno tune shops are now getting familiar with the Vic. Even here locally there's at least 4 dyno shops that I know of that have dyno tuned a Vic using the Power Commander V. I've seen reports where guys have pumped these 106's up to close to 130HP and TQ for not a large sum of money. Get those numbers out of a Harley ... think double that price.

 

Resale? Too hard to tell at this time as Vic hasn't been around long enough to properly establish that I don't think and of course, you can't even figure an Indian into that yet. One thing is for sure tho ... there's no lack of used Harleys on the market.

 

It's an interesting "bike world" we are in and I think all of us here are chompin at the bit to see what Yamaha is going to come out with to compete in this volatile market.

 

Posting a ride vid later that I did with my new Mobius action cam. Love the ride and sound of my Vic! The Mobius does a really good job.

[djh3]

Tooch: if there is only one HD dealer per provence, where in the heck to you folks buy T-shirts then? I keep hearing the same thing Victory dont have the dealer network. So I pose the question, when was the last time you took a RSV into the shop and the fellows knew what the heck it was? I have heard more horror stories about guys taking their RSV in for something and the dealer flat !@# it up.

[cowpuc]

I do agree with you puc and especially the parts about Victory and Indian being separate entities and that neither Victory or Indian have performance improvement offerings aside from an ECM reflash and Arlen Ness stuff; however, in defense, there are several 3rd party sources out there for the Vic and many of the dyno tune shops are now getting familiar with the Vic. Even here locally there's at least 4 dyno shops that I know of that have dyno tuned a Vic using the Power Commander V. I've seen reports where guys have pumped these 106's up to close to 130HP and TQ for not a large sum of money. Get those numbers out of a Harley ... think double that price.

 

Resale? Too hard to tell at this time as Vic hasn't been around long enough to properly establish that I don't think and of course, you can't even figure an Indian into that yet. One thing is for sure tho ... there's no lack of used Harleys on the market.

 

It's an interesting "bike world" we are in and I think all of us here are chompin at the bit to see what Yamaha is going to come out with to compete in this volatile market.

 

Posting a ride vid later that I did with my new Mobius action cam. Love the ride and sound of my Vic! The Mobius does a really good job.

 

""130HP and TQ for not a large sum of money. Get those numbers out of a Harley ... think double that price.""

 

HOKEY SPAAAMOKEY SILV - I HAS NO IDEA!!

Tell ya what my friend, I went to a Harley performance school a couple years ago to learn about and get a chance to ride a Street Glide with the new "120R" Harley Motor.. Had a BLAST, learned A LOT and spent some time with the dyno and riding the bike with that motor.. Even that "race" motor dynoed out at 124 RWHP and that was a $5000 motor WITH the exchange of your NEW 103 or 110... My neighbor (who I am trying to get to follow me out to Don's MD) rides a 2010 Ultra Limited, is a fantastic HD gear head.. We chased his 103 out to 106 horse (thing runs REAL strong) but, like you said, it was expensive - cams, heads, pistons, tuner, and pushrods..

IMHO,, about the only way HD is gonna come close to those numbers is by NOS or boosting it and I personally wouldnt want to go there again (did an 03 88 inch up with a Super Charger a few years ago - sucker ran GREAT but I always felt like I had just pulled the pin on a Frag Grenade).. Other than the Harley's V-Rod (THEY RUN!!) I think the 106 Vic's 130 Horsey's are :thumbsup:

[SilvrT]

I think the 106 Vic's 130 Horsey's are

 

I'll try and find some of the posted dyno charts ... may not find a 130 but definitely over 120. PCV, Air filter, mufflers, cams, and a dyno tune.

[SilvrT]

Here is one guy's setup ... not sure what it cost him but I'm looking into that. Note the HP & TQ

 

2013 Vision Touring. Shelbyville IL

Lloyds 116 big bore

Lloyds timing wheel set at plus 2

Lloyds adjustble intake

Lloyds HP cams

Lloyds quarter turn throttle

PCV 5

Ness Big Honkers

Lloyds Vision intake plate

Lloyds variable clutch

Heads worked over

Built and tuned by Rylan Vos at The Vic Shop

Adel ia.

136HP 139FTLBS

[SilvrT]

Here's another one with a chart. This bike was originally stock 100 cubes and he's done a lot to it. Value of all listed upgrades is around 8 grand.

 

2006 Victory Kingpin

110 Cubic Inches -- Balanced S&S crank/rods, Lloydz iron liner big bore, 11:1 Wiseco pistons, massaged

stock heads, stock throttle bodies/injectors/intakes, S&S .495 cams/springs/retainers, Torque Tubes

airbox, RPW Thor pipe, Lloydz ECU, PC-III, Rivera Pro clutch spring, 31 tooth pulley w/Buell belt

 

Edited March 23, 2015 by SilvrT

[cowpuc]

NICE!!!!!!!

[Semi-retired]

......he always seemed to put twice as many miles a year on as I did. I now have a little over 100,000 and the last I heard he had about 220,000.

Lots of possible reasons for that........like, he's retired.......you're working! :-)

[midnightventure]

No, he isn't retired. He just looks for any excuse to ride. His home and business are a couple of miles down gravel. He has a sign business and he is just as likely to hook a trailer to the bike and haul a sign for installation.