So what's the big deal?

[MasterGuns]

I just completed installing a new entire clutch assembly including basket and boss. Those were OEM but everything else is Barnett. I also did away with the half friction plate and retaining wire at the advise of a much more knowledgeable lst Edition mechanic than myself. The reason for replacing the entire clutch assembly was due to an annoying rattle that was coming from the clutch. Now that the job is completed the rattle is gone and the clutch operates as it should.

 

Here is my reason for posting. Over the last 30 or so years of me owning numerous 1st editions, I have always read that the friction plates must be installed properly; the two markings lined up with the two marks on the boss or else things wouldn't work properly if at all. Well, when Iremoved the diaphragm springs and stock pressure plate the first thing I noticed was that all the friction plates installed (by whoever) were not even close to being right. Not even two plates where lined up as the instructions say they must be. Yet the clutch operated as it should. The rattle noise I had was a slightly worn basket I suppose.

 

Any comments from anyone on the improper installation of the friction plates and why no negative impact on the operation of the clutch? I also would like to add that none of the Barnett friction plates had any markings at all. So what's up with that?

[Brenner]

It is my understanding from reading the service manual and experience with clutches as this that the dots are a general guide and starting point. In my manual it clearly states the dots do not need align but the plates and discs MUST move freely when the clutch is engaged. My manual show three different options to install the discs but each result is the discs and plates must move freely when not under load. Some plates or discs have half circle, some two half circles and some have flat spots according to my manual.

[Du-Rron]

I just completed installing a new entire clutch assembly including basket and boss. Those were OEM but everything else is Barnett. I also did away with the half friction plate and retaining wire at the advise of a much more knowledgeable lst Edition mechanic than myself. The reason for replacing the entire clutch assembly was due to an annoying rattle that was coming from the clutch. Now that the job is completed the rattle is gone and the clutch operates as it should.

 

Here is my reason for posting. Over the last 30 or so years of me owning numerous 1st editions, I have always read that the friction plates must be installed properly; the two markings lined up with the two marks on the boss or else things wouldn't work properly if at all. Well, when Iremoved the diaphragm springs and stock pressure plate the first thing I noticed was that all the friction plates installed (by whoever) were not even close to being right. Not even two plates where lined up as the instructions say they must be. Yet the clutch operated as it should. The rattle noise I had was a slightly worn basket I suppose.

 

Any comments from anyone on the improper installation of the friction plates and why no negative impact on the operation of the clutch? I also would like to add that none of the Barnett friction plates had any markings at all. So what's up with that?

 

All clutches are not the same. The one in this picture must be assembled in correct order using the correct plates installed the correct way.

When using factory parts and alignment marks, it just makes sense to put it together that way since the factory spent the extra penny making all those reference marks. On my RSV, I am only guessing that alignment of the frictions plates puts them (friction block -steel- friction block) contact instead of (friction block - steel - half friction block contact). On my RSV the pressure plate would only go on one way, and that was with the "dots" aligned. Barnet plates may have friction block material equi-distance spaced around the circumference so that alignment may not matter.

 

[MasterGuns]

DuRron, the clutch I replaced was factory with alignment marks on the boss and the plates,yet it was not lined up as the so-called factory repair manual mandates and it still operated without flaw. So much for needing aligned.

[Flyinfool]

Maybe the marks are so that if you take it apart you can get it back the same way it was. As in once the parts wear in together, you want to keep the same relative position. Of course this is just a WAG on my part. I really know nothing, and will admit to less.

[Eck]

[SilvrT]

Geeez, I had no idea. I put mine back in without even a thought about this. In fact, I don't even know if what I put in was in the correct order or if they were backwards. Still worked tho...

[Du-Rron]

DuRron, the clutch I replaced was factory with alignment marks on the boss and the plates,yet it was not lined up as the so-called factory repair manual mandates and it still operated without flaw. So much for needing aligned.

 

Yamaha states in R1 and older Venture manual (available here) that plates must move freely. Starting position is to be with the twin dots matching twin holes on frictions. If plates don't move freely the optional position is to be with the single hole on the twin dot position on an entire clutch pak or plate by plate basis. If you cannot get freely moving plates, then either moving plates to any other position is the third choice. Failing all that, last choice to gain free movement and least desirable is to file plates or smooth worn basket if it has had wear notches worn in it.

My bike is newer with only 6K miles on it. Mine came out and went back in with twin dots lined up. On older higher mileage bikes someone may have had to finesse the plates to get movement. The only thing that did not seem to be optional on mine was pressure plate line up. Would not fit flush on any other position than with dots lined up.

 

[Du-Rron]

DuRron, the clutch I replaced was factory with alignment marks on the boss and the plates,yet it was not lined up as the so-called factory repair manual mandates and it still operated without flaw. So much for needing aligned.

 

Yamaha states in R1 and older Venture manual (available here) that plates must move freely. Starting position is to be with the twin dots matching twin holes on frictions. If plates don't move freely the optional position is to be with the single hole on the twin dot position on an entire clutch pak or plate by plate basis. If you cannot get freely moving plates, then either moving plates to any other position is the third choice. Failing all that, last choice to gain free movement and least desirable is to file plates or smooth worn basket if it has had wear notches worn in it.

My bike is newer with only 6K miles on it. Mine came out and went back in with twin dots lined up. On older higher mileage bikes someone may have had to finesse the plates to get movement. The only thing that did not seem to be optional on mine was pressure plate line up. Would not fit flush on any other position than with dots lined up.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]98250[/ATTACH]

[Brenner]

Yamaha states in R1 and older Venture manual (available here) that plates must move freely. Starting position is to be with the twin dots matching twin holes on frictions. If plates don't move freely the optional position is to be with the single hole on the twin dot position on an entire clutch pak or plate by plate basis. If you cannot get freely moving plates, then either moving plates to any other position is the third choice. Failing all that, last choice to gain free movement and least desirable is to file plates or smooth worn basket if it has had wear notches worn in it.

My bike is newer with only 6K miles on it. Mine came out and went back in with twin dots lined up. On older higher mileage bikes someone may have had to finesse the plates to get movement. The only thing that did not seem to be optional on mine was pressure plate line up. Would not fit flush on any other position than with dots lined up.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]98250[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this post as it clearly shows my earlier comment to be correct as per Yamaha's recommendation. It is my understanding and belief that alignment is not as critical as some might think but rather the main concern is that the plates not fit too snugly as in Yamaha's words above. I was going to post the same page earlier but did not want to start a heated debate.

[Du-Rron]

Thank you for this post as it clearly shows my earlier comment to be correct as per Yamaha's recommendation. It is my understanding and belief that alignment is not as critical as some might think but rather the main concern is that the plates not fit too snugly as in Yamaha's words above. I was going to post the same page earlier but did not want to start a heated debate.

 

Just trying to be helpful.

[dna9656]

I'm no engineer.

It's been my experience that you USUALLY can't go too far wrong installing parts or performing repairs the way the manufacturer recommends.

HOWEVER!!! Yamaha is LONG on telling WHAT to do but really SHORT on HOW to do.

Yamaha went to the expense of producing a video (we used to call them "training films" but then we used to refer to another kind of film as "Training film(s) too huh Gunny?) showing how to install the clutch disks and plates.

[Du-Rron]

I'm no engineer.

It's been my experience that you USUALLY can't go too far wrong installing parts or performing repairs the way the manufacturer recommends.

HOWEVER!!! Yamaha is LONG on telling WHAT to do but really SHORT on HOW to do.

Yamaha went to the expense of producing a video (we used to call them "training films" but then we used to refer to another kind of film as "Training film(s) too huh Gunny?) showing how to install the clutch disks and plates.

 

I never saw the -X- rated version of how to install a clutch (grin)

[dna9656]

Du-Ron;

 

No?! Well there's been a SLIGHT NEGLIGENCE in your (corruption) upbringing!!!!

[mralex714]

I was an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force force for 20 years. Aircraft brakes are set up in the same way as this clutch with alternating rotors and stators with a pressure plate. On most planes this is a single assembly. On the F-4 the rotors and stators need to be removed to change the tire. The plates had to be reinstalled in the same order and position oriented the same to each other. This was done because if they had warped they stayed in the same relationship to each other to prevent dragging, overheating, locking up or poor braking force. I thinking this is part of the reason for the clutch alignment dots.

[dna9656]

I was an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force force for 20 years. Aircraft brakes are set up in the same way as this clutch with alternating rotors and stators with a pressure plate. On most planes this is a single assembly. On the F-4 the rotors and stators need to be removed to change the tire. The plates had to be reinstalled in the same order and position oriented the same to each other. This was done because if they had warped they stayed in the same relationship to each other to prevent dragging, overheating, locking up or poor braking force. I thinking this is part of the reason for the clutch alignment dots.

 

I was a C-130 mechanic for 5 years in the USAF. I cross trained into Transportation Maintenance thinking I would get out of that mobility stuff....It didn't work out so well.... Anyway...

No one explained the brake to me, I don't think I ever played with the brakes....anyway your explanation makes a whole lot of sense to me... however this isn't something that gets removed routinely like a tire on aircraft but I bet you're righ because the thinking probably transferred to the clutch from the brake design side of the engineering house....yeah; I think you're right!