Noises

[dna9656]

I got some very scary noises coming from my bike. Today while riding home it was so scary I thought the bike was falling apart...

 

Symptoms: I got the water leak at the elbow, I filled the bottle but could the noise be cavitation? Just to make sure how should the drain/on/off valve be positioned? I have anti freeze dripping out of the over flow yet the bottle is FULL to the top.....

 

It sounds like the side and or center stand is flopping around but the thud I feel in the seat of my pants isn't in time with bumps on the road.... Now I got intermittent scraping noises like a brake (only it happens when I'm NOT applying the brakes at either end) pad is scrapping the rotor, I replaced them last year with cheapies in hope I would be upgrading to R-1 brakes but that hasn't happened yet. Could the pads be sloppy in the caliper? I suppose....

 

I replaced the front wheel bearings with "Balls are Best" sealed bearings, I should not have had to lube them should I? The dealer installed them as I couldn't (was too scared to hit the bearings THAT hard and couldn't get a purchase on the the race(s) anyway. I got the bike up on the center stand (on the side of the road) and spun the front wheel, it didn't make a sound; I didn't feel any indication of grinding bearings while turning the wheel.

 

I also got a buzzing from the old speedo cable, I put the new (new cable and sheath pre-lubed) one on, could the end of the cable not fit correctly cause these bumps I feel? I will take it out and see how the ends look....

 

Feeling like the rear floor (not spring loaded in any position) boards (or side/center stand) are bouncing with the road but again the sound/feeling through the seat/handlebars isn't in time with the road...

 

Could the forks be bottoming out? How about the rear shock/spring assembly?

 

I haven't got it up on the lift yet but I will be checking for tightness of fasteners though all are torqued to specs. except the muffler clamps.

 

Can this be drive line related? I'll be removing the rear wheel and checking the lube situation with the drive shaft at the wheel, the other end has that universal, I will check it for tightness and serviceability.

 

The front right lower is a little loose as the lower pokie that fits into the hole on the main fairing has broken again. I have a bungee cord on it but it still doesn't keep it from being a little loose.

 

This all started Saturday on the way home from getting the seat repaired, I know the bike wasn't tampered with as I was with it at all times.

[flyday58]

Get it on the lift and spin that rear wheel. Get eyes on the rear shock attach points and the frame in that area. Don't know if 84s are the ones that are prone to breaking of the frame or not but I would look hard.

 

"The front right lower is a little loose as the lower pokie that fits into the hole on the main fairing has broken again. I have a bungee cord on it but it still doesn't keep it from being a little loose." Not sure what this means, sounds cryptic. Or coptic.

 

Wouldn't think forks since it's not in time with road bumps.

 

Buzzing speedo, I just went through this. It was the bearing in the speedo head, needed to get grease up in there. Linkie: Lubing the speedo on a 1st gen

 

I think the rear drive line is a good place to start, though. Scary noises are, well, scary. Keep us advised.

[dna9656]

The front lower.... that ABS thing in front of the rider's shin....will check stuff this weekend. Thanks!

 

I read the links given to the speedo issue; Some VERY GOOD ideas there, I do have a story to relate that might be pertinent ...

When in SF. CA. my speedo in my '83 S-10 Blazer acted up. the cable would wrap up and suddenly un-wrap, it made the horrible dry speedo head noise too. I went to a speedo shop and got a ridiculous quote to fix it (they were going to pull the cable, grease the speedo through the transmission end of the cable and call it good) something like $210.00. While waiting in the shop I noticed a can of red grease, (it looked a whole lot like the grease I used on aircraft flight control actuators in the USAF) so I asked about it, they called it cable lube or grease. So; I didn't know there was such a specific lube for that application, I thought trans fluid made it's way up there for the cable; maybe some graphite for the head; So anyway it was a synthetic grease, they said it stays on the lighter side of thickness when cold so the cable will spin and it displaces any water (condensate or from driving through water) that would freeze in the colder months. OK all well and good. So I asked where I could get a can and I got the expected answer, "Oh; just bring it here and we'll lube it for you.", yeah at $210.00. for 1/2's work and 50 cents worth of grease. Yep I'm gonna do that. Yamaha says use a synthetic moly (I believe) in the cable housing, The wise old men here (I'm 58 so I think I can say that without being disrespectful) seem to agree on the synthetic moly grease on this application as well and I'm sure that's an experienced based opinion and based on the factory specs.

Thanks to you all!

Edited March 7, 2015 by dna9656

[flyday58]

Oooooh. That thing is called a bunch of stuff. Yamaha calls it "Body comma front lower" in their parts lists. Lower vent fairing seems to cover it, though.

[dna9656]

Well I try to use the "OFFICIAL' designations to avoid confusion; as you said people name things differently; I try to create a page of thought where everyone gets as close to the same idea(s) as is possible. We all think a little differently of course and that's OK; just think how boring it would be if we all thought the same way....

[Marcarl]

I would do as indicated earlier, I would also check the u-joint at the front of the drive shaft.

[dna9656]

SO ARE the '84s prone to frame cracks? I found posts mentioning the '83s were/are.... My bike is titled as a '83 but you won't find the XVZ12DKC2 in the '83 parts catalog, it's in the '84 catalog. I looked up the '83, '84 and '85 part numbers for the frame, they are all the same......it changes in '86 most likely because of the 1300 CC engine and increased weight(s).

The VIN is JYA47T004DA000237 with a build date of 10/83. I suppose this could be a "1984" model as we (in the US) build cars in the year proceeding the calendar year for which vehicles are identified; but never the less the title says '83 and the build date is 10/83. Neil has mentioned my bike is a '83.5; I guess it's sort of a transitional model. So maybe some one has some "SECRET" Yamaha document that talks about a frame spec. change for the first 3 years....

[dna9656]

Ok the fork is tight it all directions.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

Lifting the rear wheel off the lift platform and I found it wiggles....!!!!!!!!!!! BAD BEARINGS

 

 

Ebay; on Ebay there is a kit, both bearings, seals and the o ring for 50.00 free shipping. It's mine!

 

I have 2 spare rear wheels, one with a really bald tire and the other has an Elite 2 tire on it that looks OK... I will clean it up and look it over. if it's worth the time I will install is and see how it is.

Edited March 8, 2015 by dna9656

[Marcarl]

get the rear wheel off the ground, spin it, wiggle it back and forth.

[dna9656]

Done; the bearings are bad.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dna9656

[Marcarl]

yep, been there, done that. You have 2 bearings back there. One is a ball bearing (# 6304 I think, standard type) the other is only available from Yamaha, it's a needle bearing and you'll need to order the inner race separately. The seals are both standard.

[Marcarl]

Bearing (B6304zz)

93306-30417-00 93306-30437-00

 

 

$24.26

 

Oil Seal

93102-25064-00

 

$5.24

 

Oil Seal

93106-40027-00

 

$5.79

 

Bearing, Cylindrical

93317-32635-00 93311-32698-00

 

 

$25.80

 

Collar

90387-203H7-00

 

$10.79

 

Seal, Hub Dust

1J7-25319-01-00 1J7-25319-02-00

 

$9.82

 

O-Ring

93210-68347-00

 

$3.23

 

Total: $85

 

You should take the wheel off before you order to inspect the clutch hub for wear.

 

Clutch, Hub

26H-25366-00-00 26H-25366-01-00

 

$86.79

 

Prices from Yamaha Sports Plaza, Oregon

[dna9656]

Where do you get the inner race? The inner race is usually the inner part of a bearing. With cars you can order an inner race but usually the inner race is integral with the bearing assembly. I'm confused.

I ordered this from EBay:

Pivot Works Rear Wheel and Seal Kit For 1983 Yamaha XVZ 12

I has both bearings listed by yamaha. Yamaha does not show an "inner race"...hence my confusion.

Edited March 8, 2015 by dna9656
more info.

[Marcarl]

Where do you get the inner race? I ordered this from EBay:

Pivot Works Rear Wheel and Seal Kit For 1983 Yamaha XVZ 12

 

Looks like a good price, as long as the bearings are quality material, or else you'll be doing it again soon.

Collar 90387-203H7-00 $10.79

[dna9656]

Inner race? You mean like the INNER part of a bearing or do you mean a inner bearing?

I ordered the collar through amazon $20.31 out the door and shipped from Motorcycle Parts Network.

[Marcarl]

Yamaha calls it a collar, but it works as the inner race, you should be OK to go

[dna9656]

So when I tried to remove the FRONT wheel bearings it was next to un-doable so that job went to the dealer. Anybody got any words of wisdom on removing the rear wheel bearings?

[Marcarl]

Not all that hard really,,, have you downloaded the manual? and have you changed bearings in anything before?

[dna9656]

Yes I have the manual; the manual that tells WHAT but not a very good job at telling HOW. I have changed wheel bearings in cars and trucks, transmissions, transfer cases etc. and installed seals in same. I have put bearings in LOTS of stuff, I have done my own (most of) car and truck work all my life. I'm 58, spent 20 years in the USAF in aircraft and vehicle maintenance.

I know that when you smack a bearing with a 2.5 lb. hammer and drift for 20 minutes it should move, the bearings in the front of my VR didn't and I really couldn't get a good contact patch on the bearing anyway. I was reluctant to put any heat on the aluminum, I have a map gas hand held torch. Tomorrow I will experiment on the spare rear wheel I have.

Edited March 9, 2015 by dna9656

[Marcarl]

All good then, I won't have to go into great detail.

Remove wheel from bike.

Remove clutch hub, it has a c-ring holding it on.

Remove seals.

Now you will need a long punch, make sure the end is totally square and grind a wee bit off to flatten a little edge.

Insert the punch into the axle-shaft hole and see if you can move the centre spacer over a bit, you might have to wiggle this some as it determined to stay put.

If it doesn't want to move from the side you are attempting, try from the other side. The centre spacer has a sheet metal collar around the outside of it to keep it from falling out of line and it runs from bearing to bearing. This collar could be anywhere, at either end, so a bit of trial and find.

Once you can get the spacer to move over a bit, it won't be much, then you can drive the bearing out. One whack, move the punch, another whack, you know the process.

Once that bearing is out, the rest will be a piece of cake.

We did mine a couple of years ago. Saddlebum and me, borrowed shop and tools, total job to back on the road, 2 hrs,,,, and Saddelbum talks a lot.

[dna9656]

So is there ANY reason I shouldn't, can't, or need more, MAY need more parts to install the spare wheel I have on the bike until the parts get here? Could I need a shim where the 4 studs on the wheel assembly connect to the swing arm? I see they are no longer available but came in 30, 40 and 50 thousandths...shouldn't be too hard to get some made....I know a man.....

There is no shim on my bike currently...how do I determine if I need one? I bet this is a machinist's job needing dial indicators and machinist's bluing to check gar patterns right?

Edited March 9, 2015 by dna9656

[Marcarl]

Don't see why you would need the shims. They were put there originally to line up the pumpkin to the swing arm, and that shouldn't change, unless you change the pumpkin.

Did you check the clutch hub for wear?

[dna9656]

No not yet; I just got home! I have 2 spares if it's worn. You're talking about the hub that holds the 5 or 6 studs...what would I be looking for (or did you already cover that criteria?) I was getting ready to go get the wheel off the bike. ALSO I noticed in the "DRIVE SHAFT" IPB (Illus. Pts. bkdn) that there are MORE bearings inside it. Shouldn't these need to be replaced as well?

[Marcarl]

The hub is where the wheel connects to the pumpkin, it's splined and if not greased with the proper grease the hub on the wheel will wear pretty quick. I use Lucas Extra Heavy Duty wheel bearing grease, some guys use a Honda molly grease. Just ordinary stuff won't cut it.

If it's the Wheel bearings gone ( most often the case) you should be good to go. I haven't heard of any body having issues with the pumpkin bearings so I would assume they be OK.

The hub attaches to the wheel centre. It is held in place with a C ring and it has 5 pins that insert into the wheel, no threads or anything funny. Remove the C-ring and then pry the hub off. Clean all the pins to bare metal, clean the holes as best you can and then grease the pins and holes as well.

The large rubber seal that is around the hub keeps the dirt and debris out of the hub area but does hold any grease in place. Stick a screw driver behind the center and pry it off, it's only held in place by tension.

[dna9656]

All;

When I got the bike I didn't have any tech data so I thought that the bearings I found were the axle bearings; they weren't' they were the ones you see when the diferential(?) is off; I lubed them....

 

Here is what I found:

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/th_IMG_0409.jpg

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/th_IMG_0408.jpg

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/th_IMG_0414.jpg Collars new and old. I have the spacer out too, it's rusted but serviceable (cleaned up on the wire wheel) I believe. If any want top see a pic let me know.

 

Now the larger bearing came out, it was missing 3(?) balls. The outer race of the needle bearing (the inner race and needles are on the floor) is corroded in there. I Dremelled the inner bearing race of the needle bearing till it was thin in a space of about 3/16ths" wide then tried to cut the thinned out outer race. I think the hub is FUBAR. It's not moving or breaking. I think it's seized in there pretty tight.

I have 2 other rear wheels on hand.

 

Opinions?

Edited March 14, 2015 by dna9656
added pics and text