VanRiver Posted February 24, 2015 #1 Posted February 24, 2015 Hi Guy and Gal experts. Was able to take my Brown 1986 outside the shop today as the weather was beautiful here in Calgary. Anyway, I'm finding that the clutch on this bike is not full disengaging with the handle pulled completely. The system is fully bled and has new fluid. When it is cold and I try to start it while in gear and the clutch pulled all the way, she wants to move forward. When the engine is cold but running and I drop it into gear with the clutch full pulled it will stall the bike. When the bike is warm it won't stall but while testing on the centre stand the rear tire still spins with the clutch fully pulled until you rev the engine a couple times and then the tire finally stops turning. The clutch handle feels normal (not soft or hard). Where should I start to troubleshoot this? Do I have a bad slave cylinder? Or should I start at the clutch Master Cylinder? OR is it just gummed up from many years of sitting, and try to purge and flush it again with new fluid? Any troubleshoot advice would be greatly appreciated.
Peder_y2k Posted February 24, 2015 #2 Posted February 24, 2015 Bike in heated storage? Other bike behave same? Pete, in Tacoma WA USA
Du-Rron Posted February 24, 2015 #3 Posted February 24, 2015 What was up with the clutch causing you to bleed it in first place? Was it working ok before bleeding it? Is it leaking now? Look up and down clutch line and at both master and slave cylinders. If no, then I would rebleed using a vacuum bleeder if you have one, or many-many manual pulls on the lever if you don't. Have you bled a clutch before?
VanRiver Posted February 24, 2015 Author #4 Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks @Peder_y2k.......Yes both of my Venture's are in heated storage. My Brown Bike is having the clutch issue but my Black bike's clutch is working fine. Long story short I believe it is mechanical and not environment related. Bike in heated storage? Other bike behave same? Pete, in Tacoma WA USA
VanRiver Posted February 24, 2015 Author #5 Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks @Du-Rron for the troubleshooting help!.....I bled the clutch as maintenance as soon as I bought my Venture's from the previous owner. Both bikes had sat for many years so I did a replacement of ALL fluids include brakes and clutch on both of my Venture's as soon as I picked them up. To be honest, I'm not sure if the clutch on the Brown bike was working properly when I got it as it was in a non-running state when I picked it up and began the restoration process without being able to do a test ride. I have no, zip, zero leaks on the clutch connections or lines. Yes I have bled many hydraulic clutches in my time, but I do make mistakes (just ask my wife :-) )......as per your advice I will re-bleeed just to be on the safe side.....and yes I have a vacuum bleeder tool which is what I used originally for the first bleed. What was up with the clutch causing you to bleed it in first place? Was it working ok before bleeding it? Is it leaking now? Look up and down clutch line and at both master and slave cylinders. If no, then I would rebleed using a vacuum bleeder if you have one, or many-many manual pulls on the lever if you don't. Have you bled a clutch before?
MiCarl Posted February 24, 2015 #6 Posted February 24, 2015 It is possible that the master cylinder needs a rebuild. If it's leaking internally it'll reduce the clutch throw.
MiCarl Posted February 24, 2015 #7 Posted February 24, 2015 It is possible that the master cylinder needs a rebuild. If it's leaking internally it'll reduce the clutch throw. Make sure of your bleed first though. It's also possible for the clutch steels to have some corrosion on them from sitting. That will cause it to drag a bit until it wears off.
Condor Posted February 24, 2015 #8 Posted February 24, 2015 I think you still have air in the clutch line.... You may think you've gotten it all out when you bled it, but you haven't.....
bongobobny Posted February 24, 2015 #9 Posted February 24, 2015 All of the above!! Could be the master, the slave, trapped air or crud on the friction discs...
Peder_y2k Posted February 24, 2015 #10 Posted February 24, 2015 Just a wild guess, but check the mechanicals of the slave cylinder and hand lever for abnormalities. A broken/lose/missing bolt at the cylinder can cause reduced 'throw', and a bad/worn lever can cause the same, with the result of insufficient movement to fully release the clutch. With engine oil hot, blip the throttle several times (while up on the centerstand) to unstick the clutch plates. -Pete, in Tacoma WA USA
Venturous Randy Posted February 24, 2015 #11 Posted February 24, 2015 I'm not convinced you actually have a problem. I suspect that you may have some dry clutch plates and they are sticking. Since it appears to be disengaging after it warms up some, before I did anything, I would try to ride it some and see if it gets any better. Randy
VanRiver Posted February 25, 2015 Author #12 Posted February 25, 2015 Hi @Venturous Randy, Thanks for the insight....I think you are on to something with the sticking clutch plates concept.....I did a reverse flush and bleed as suggested by @Condor (thanks condor!) but still no improvement. But I did notice tonight that the the engine noise that I'm experiencing (which I posted about in a different thread) gets better when the bike is in gear. So the bike is quieter in gear with the clutch pulled then in neutral and the clicking noise is coming from the righter clutch cover. Randy do you believe I should just wait and run the bike "like I stole it" when the weather gets nice to see if it gets better or the plates free themselves up, or should I take the couch cover off and see whats going on inside? I don't want to open it up if I don't have to as she is running and very drivable in it's current state. I'm not convinced you actually have a problem. I suspect that you may have some dry clutch plates and they are sticking. Since it appears to be disengaging after it warms up some, before I did anything, I would try to ride it some and see if it gets any better. Randy
Venturous Randy Posted February 25, 2015 #13 Posted February 25, 2015 I would ride it some as it is my understanding the clutch is releasing to some degree, but it is still wanting to pull some. It also may help to start the bike and when it warms up some to just pull the clutch in some and rev the motor. This may also help to get fresh oil between the plates. Whenever I start my bike cold, before I try to put it in 1st gear, I will pull the clutch in and do a few quick revs, not to a lot of RPM's, but like quick jabs. By doing this, it will usually break the clutch plates free and easily slip into gear without the jerk. On your engine rattle, did you ever do a sync on the carbs? This can definitely add to rattle. You also may need to do a good vacuum check to make you are not trying to adjust a carb with a vacuum leak because the vacuum leak becomes part of the airflow balance. Randy
flyday58 Posted February 25, 2015 #14 Posted February 25, 2015 With a bike that has sat up lots of bad things can creep in. One of my enduros exhibited similar symptoms and when I took the cover off and disassembled the clutch, I found corrosion on the steel plates from moisture intrusion. It's probably worth a look inside, imho. There's also alot of views on the oil you use in the tranny. Makes a difference with noise, grabbing or slipping, shift smoothness. Still not settled on that question myself. Richard
VanRiver Posted February 25, 2015 Author #15 Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks Randy, I will need to wait for the weather to get better before I can ride it (snowed again tonight here is the great white north). Good advise for cold starting and preventing the first gear "jerk". As for the Carb sync, no that has not been done yet, I'm still waiting on my CarbTune Sync tool to arrive in the mail from England. But as soon as the post man delivers it I will be in the shop syncing carbs. I would ride it some as it is my understanding the clutch is releasing to some degree, but it is still wanting to pull some. It also may help to start the bike and when it warms up some to just pull the clutch in some and rev the motor. This may also help to get fresh oil between the plates. Whenever I start my bike cold, before I try to put it in 1st gear, I will pull the clutch in and do a few quick revs, not to a lot of RPM's, but like quick jabs. By doing this, it will usually break the clutch plates free and easily slip into gear without the jerk. On your engine rattle, did you ever do a sync on the carbs? This can definitely add to rattle. You also may need to do a good vacuum check to make you are not trying to adjust a carb with a vacuum leak because the vacuum leak becomes part of the airflow balance. Randy
VanRiver Posted February 25, 2015 Author #16 Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks @flyday58, yes popping the cover off and looking inside is probably something I should do....As for oil I'm using the regular dinosaur 15w40 Rotella that other members have recommended on the forum. Not sure what the previous owner used as I've only had my 2 ventures for a few months and they have not hit the street yet so the Rotella is still fresh in them aside from running in the shop during my restoration process. I have been thinking about putting some Seafoam in the crank case for an initial cleaning just to clear the sludge out of the bikes. I guess Seafoam might help unstick stuck clutch plates too, right? With a bike that has sat up lots of bad things can creep in. One of my enduros exhibited similar symptoms and when I took the cover off and disassembled the clutch, I found corrosion on the steel plates from moisture intrusion. It's probably worth a look inside, imho. There's also alot of views on the oil you use in the tranny. Makes a difference with noise, grabbing or slipping, shift smoothness. Still not settled on that question myself. Richard
Neil86 Posted February 25, 2015 #17 Posted February 25, 2015 You might want to inspect the cylindrical brass bushing in the lever. The pushrod can wear into bushing and cause loss of travel of the piston in the master. Originally the hole is bored to 1/2 the depth of the bushing but I have seen one that the pushrod wore through to other side. The bushing normally wears from rotating in the lever on every clutch pull, grease the bushing periodically.
dfitzbiz Posted February 25, 2015 #18 Posted February 25, 2015 Right on Neil86. I had that issue on my '99. It wore nearly through in about 85,000 miles. I fabricated one out of the stem of a brass water valve, very simple to do and you can make several if you purchase a long stem valve. Good luck.
bongobobny Posted February 26, 2015 #19 Posted February 26, 2015 Yup, I was just going to suggest this, but you were faster Neil!
Peder_y2k Posted February 26, 2015 #20 Posted February 26, 2015 Yup, I was just going to suggest this, but you were faster Neil! See thread #10 . -Pete, in Tacoma WA USA
bongobobny Posted February 26, 2015 #21 Posted February 26, 2015 Right! When that brass bushing wears there is excessive play in the handle resulting in less actual stroke of the master cylinder...
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