Wesley G Posted February 16, 2015 #1 Posted February 16, 2015 My 04 RSV sat idle for about 2 weeks while I waited on a new seat that I traded my old one for. Once I finally got my new seat installed I started her up no problem and rode about a mile to Lowes to pick up some bolts and whatnot. I was in Lowes for maybe 10 or 15 minutes and I come out and I can't get the bike to start. She just cranks and cranks with no firing. I let it sit for a few minutes and tried it again with the same result. Then I flipped the kill switch a couple of times (I leave it in the run position and kill the engine with the kick stand) and tried it again. After that it started up just fine. I rode about 70 miles, hung out for 4 hours or so and rode 70 miles home yesterday and all was well. Any ideas why I had such trouble getting her started on Saturday??? I'm planning an iron butt ride in about 4 months and just want to be sure I have all the kinks worked out by then. Thanks.
Flyinfool Posted February 17, 2015 #2 Posted February 17, 2015 If exercising the kill switch fixed the problem, it may be time to disassemble the kill switch to clean the contacts. After all an 04 RSV is now officially an old obsolete bike........
XV1100SE Posted February 17, 2015 #3 Posted February 17, 2015 Could be your fuel pump. If it is the original pump it has probably failed. Turn the petcock off and start the bike, let it run for a couple minutes. Turn off the key and then turn on the petcock. Turn the key on and listen for the clicking of the pump. If you don't hear anything, your pump has gone. I've had mine fail while riding. Sudden loss of power. Pulled over to the side and the bike would not start. After a couple minutes it started and ran for another week before it failed on me again. After trouble shooting, I had the dealer replace it (mine was under warranty). There are a couple options for you if it is your pump : - OEM - search for "fuel pump replacement" on here and there is a brand/model recommended - search for "fuel pump contacts" on here for a way to replace the common failure point of the pump - lot cheaper than getting an oem pump
XV1100SE Posted February 17, 2015 #4 Posted February 17, 2015 After all an 04 RSV is now officially an old obsolete bike........ So a 11 year old bike is obsolete and an '88 is an antique? Since the '04 isn't different from a '13... it can't be obsolete ! Both years came with cassette decks !
Flyinfool Posted February 17, 2015 #5 Posted February 17, 2015 Not yet, an 88 is a collector bike, it wont be an antique till 2028, another 13 years. ob·so·lete ˌäbsəˈlēt adjective: obsolete 1. no longer produced; out of date. synonyms:outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion; verb verb: obsolete; 3rd person present: obsoletes; past tense: obsoleted; past participle: obsoleted; gerund or present participle: obsoleting 1. cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new. "we're trying to stimulate the business by obsoleting last year's designs" You do know we are just:stirthepot:
yamagrl Posted February 17, 2015 #6 Posted February 17, 2015 Maybe you ain't holdin' your mouth right!
djh3 Posted February 17, 2015 #7 Posted February 17, 2015 I would look at fuel pump first probably. Mine was kind of like that. Most times I would have problems was when gas ran out and I swapped to reserve. Almost acted like pump would get hot when it ran out and had no fuel trying to pick up from reserve. Bike would sit a few minutes, pump cool and away I would go and may not have problems for weeks or longer. I swapped to the Mr Gasket m 42 I think it is. Ther is a write up in the 2nd gen tech section.
Wesley G Posted February 17, 2015 Author #8 Posted February 17, 2015 Ok so the clicking when I turn the key on is the fuel pump then right? Seems to do it for longer the longer the bike has sat (about 5 seconds or so). So this is normal right?
Brake Pad Posted February 17, 2015 #9 Posted February 17, 2015 My fuel pump did the same thing, the next day I rode it 205 miles no issues, then it did it again, started next day, rode it home 205 miles, let sit all weekend, Monday the bike would not start at all, trailered it to the shop, new pump
Du-Rron Posted February 17, 2015 #10 Posted February 17, 2015 Ok so the clicking when I turn the key on is the fuel pump then right? Seems to do it for longer the longer the bike has sat (about 5 seconds or so). So this is normal right? Yup. Absolutely.
Wesley G Posted February 17, 2015 Author #11 Posted February 17, 2015 Well I've been researching for a little while and it seems like the points are the problem in most fuel pump failures. Is there a way to clean the points? Also, is it difficult to replace the points? I read somewhere that you have to solder them, I'm no good at soldering... I also saw a thread that said most fuel pump failures occur in 2006 and new models, they suggested a possible change in manufacturing. I also read that if you replace the fuel pump with a cheaper option than stock like an ebay one or Mr. Gasket that you MUST shutoff the fuel or you could end up having hydrostatic lock (or something like that) and engine damage. (I'm not exactly sure what that means...and I never shutoff my fuel so that would be a hard habit to start). I have 4 months until my trip so I have time to play with it and figure things out. I just know I DO NOT want to get stranded. Any suggestions on things I could do to give myself a little just in case insurance?
djh3 Posted February 17, 2015 #12 Posted February 17, 2015 Well there may have been a change in manufactures of pumps, but the same pn fits all second gen. I installed a Mr Gasket and didnt put any kind of additional valves or anything. The fasuet or whatever the name is of aircraft rated pump has a check valve or something in there. But I know several folks using the Mr Gasket pump and no issues. I dont shut the petcock off either.
Condor Posted February 17, 2015 #13 Posted February 17, 2015 Then I flipped the kill switch a couple of times (I leave it in the run position and kill the engine with the kick stand) and tried it again. I don't know how this evolved into a bad fuel pump thread, but the key here is that the kill switch is always left on. After cycling it a few times it fired up and ran fine the rest of the day. Ergo, dirty kill switch contact. One good reason to use the kill switch to turn the scoot off, and keep the contacts cleaned off. Use it or loose it....
XV1100SE Posted February 17, 2015 #14 Posted February 17, 2015 ... I was in Lowes for maybe 10 or 15 minutes and I come out and I can't get the bike to start. She just cranks and cranks with no firing. I let it sit for a few minutes and tried it again with the same result. Then I flipped the kill switch a couple of times (I leave it in the run position and kill the engine with the kick stand) and tried it again. After that it started up just fine. .... If it were the kill switch the bike wouldn't crank. Same with the kickstand cut-off. Looking at other possibilities. Just a thought....have you checked the battery connections? If you had the seat off/on... make sure the posts and connectors to the battery are clean and tight. Check the ground (near stock horn on right side) as well. Bad +/- connection could be draining power to turn it over but not start. I'm still thinking it is the pump...and like you mentioned the points could be worn out (there is a kit recommended that replaces the points). Intermittent issues are fun.... start with the inexpensive, easy to verify possibilities.
djh3 Posted February 17, 2015 #15 Posted February 17, 2015 Here is write up. Here is the listing for the facet aircraft pump. You would need PN#40163 I believe @ $46.50 aprox + shipping
Condor Posted February 17, 2015 #16 Posted February 17, 2015 If it were the kill switch the bike wouldn't crank. Same with the kickstand cut-off. Looking at other possibilities. I'm still thinking it is the pump...and like you mentioned the points could be worn out (there is a kit recommended that replaces the points). Intermittent issues are fun.... start with the inexpensive, easy to verify possibilities. Very true...forgot about that. Pump could be a possibility, but if it clicks 99 times out of a 100 it's OK. The part number for the point kit is
Wesley G Posted February 17, 2015 Author #17 Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah I figured if it was the kill switch then it wouldn't turn over at all. I just went for a short ride to the beer store and came back 5 minutes later and it acted like it didn't want to start again. This time I put it in neutral and it fired right up. I also turned the fuel off 1/2 mile from the house to drain the bowls. When I turned the key back on it clicked much more than usual so who knows... I just gotta figure this out cause I'm going from Mississippi to Colorado (1500 miles each way) and I sure would hate to be stranded... Thanks for all the help and hopefully I can start troubleshooting as soon as I get some time.
XV1100SE Posted February 18, 2015 #18 Posted February 18, 2015 While riding at higher rpms have you noticed a sudden drop in power? What you want to do is make the pump work harder and see if you get a sudden decrease of power...like running out of fuel. If you experience this, the engine is starving for fuel. If you ride and the bike stalls or won't start, take the left battery side cover off and turn the key on. Listen for the clicking of the pump working. Try starting the bike (hopefully it won't start) and if it won't start, tap the pump lightly with the handle of a screw driver and try starting the bike again. If it starts after this, I'd lean to it being your pump. Another thought....when the bike won't start, how much fuel is in your tank? Possible your overflow is plugged if the tank is low. This builds up a negative vacuum in the tank.
Wesley G Posted February 18, 2015 Author #19 Posted February 18, 2015 When it happened on Saturday and I was worried I wouldn't get it going there was probably a little less than half a tank. Today the fuel light will be coming on in 15 miles or so. Anyway it could be a clogged fuel filter? I've only had the bike a couple months so I'm not sure if its ever been changed. Heard its a pita to get to though... Also, from day 1 I've noticed that this bike is just harder to start. I've often had to hold the starter button for 2 or 3 seconds before she fires up.
XV1100SE Posted February 18, 2015 #20 Posted February 18, 2015 I did a tech article a while ago on changing the fuel filter - http://www.venturerider.org/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/76515-2nd-gen-changing-fuel-filter.html It isn't that bad once you do it your first time. This is the article on putting in the Mr Gasket fuel pump. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/86265-gasket-fuel-pump-conversion.html Here is the article on changing the points http://www.venturerider.org/forum/second-generation-venture-tech-talk/88602-fuel-pump-issues.html
XV1100SE Posted February 18, 2015 #21 Posted February 18, 2015 Another article with similar issues : http://www.venturerider.org/forum/second-generation-venture-tech-talk/88144-wont-stay-running.html http://www.venturerider.org/forum/watering-hole/63081-heat-affect-fuel-feed.html?highlight=tank+vent+lock
XV1100SE Posted February 18, 2015 #22 Posted February 18, 2015 For rebuilding the pump - http://www.venturerider.org/forum/second-generation-venture-tech-talk/92128-pbjmans-thread-fuel-pump-rebuilding-gravity-feed-cheap-ebay-fuel-pumps.html#post879351
Wesley G Posted February 18, 2015 Author #23 Posted February 18, 2015 Thanks a lot for all those links and the other information. It will definitely help once I can find the time to start and finish this project. I just got to thinking and I realized I probably have a half dozen projects around the house that are half done...
Seaking Posted February 19, 2015 #24 Posted February 19, 2015 When it happened on Saturday and I was worried I wouldn't get it going there was probably a little less than half a tank. Today the fuel light will be coming on in 15 miles or so. Anyway it could be a clogged fuel filter? I've only had the bike a couple months so I'm not sure if its ever been changed. Heard its a pita to get to though... Also, from day 1 I've noticed that this bike is just harder to start. I've often had to hold the starter button for 2 or 3 seconds before she fires up. Based on my own past experiences, a clogged fuel filter will not make a difference on your fuel light. In my case, it did cause other problems (used bike was new to me at the time, with a very dirty fuel filter). When the fuel got below a certain level, it would cause fuel starvation problems, almost like it had run out of fuel. Put it on reserve it would start and run until the fuel level got to certain point. The filter was so clogged that it required a certain amount of head pressure from the weight of the fuel to assist the pump to suck the fuel past the filter. Once the fuel got below a certain level, not enough head pressure. Once I replaced the filter, all was good.. Until the fuel pump died later on from being overworked by the clogged fuel filter. I since then I relocated the fuel filter to under the seat so now there is no excuse not to change it every year.
djh3 Posted February 19, 2015 #25 Posted February 19, 2015 I would tend to agree on the filter causing the pump to work harder. So I have a question maybesomeone can answer. We have all heard and some of us have seen what the current 10% ethonol fuel can mess up. So how disasterous is this stuff to the filter? Should we maybe be looking at more frequent changes on them? Sorry dont mean to hijack.
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