Practice with your brakes

[Venturous Randy]

I wonder how many of us take the time and effort to actually see what the capabilities are of our brakes? Do you ever take your bike out on a deserted road and see how quickly you can stop from 40, 50 or 60 mph? Do you know how much effort it takes to lock up your rear brake or your front brake? Do you ever practice how close you can get to lock up, without locking it up? Do you know the best balance of using front and rear brakes to stop as quickly as possible?

We have had several crashes lately where riders lost control of their bikes because in a panic stop they locked up their brakes, especially the rear. I wonder how many of those were surprised at how quickly they lost control? When in a panic mode we react to a situation with instinct and what we know. If the instinct is to grab your brakes as hard as you can to slow down quickly without knowing capabilities, you may crash without even hitting what you were trying to avoid.

One of the things that many of us early 1st genners know is that we don't worry a lot about locking our stock brakes up, even with EBC HH pads on clean dry pavement, dusty or wet, yes we can get in trouble quick. I will be upgrading my 83 to R-6 calipers, MKII rotors and SS lines and I do expect them to be better. I had seriously thought about delinking, but with putting over 150,000 miles on this bike, I am going to leave them linked.

I think most of us don't practice doing panic stops because we feel like we would be abusing the pads, rotors, ect. This is not nearly as important as knowing the capabilities. Then, after you get a good feel to what to expect, put your rider on the back and let them know you are going to do some quick slowdown practices and see how well they and the bike does, maybe not push the absolute limits, but get a good feel on what to expect.

The thing we are going for here is to learn your bikes capabilities and learn to override your instincts with some training to know what works best.

RandyA

[Chaharly]

I agree completely! This is something I do with all of my vehicles!!

[SilvrT]

I've practiced panic stops at least once on every bike I've owned. When I got my Wing (which has ABS), that was one of the first things I did because having ABS on a bike was new to me. I was AMAZED at how quickly I could stop and not loose any control whatsoever. Same thing on my Vic.

 

Having been a rider for so many years, brake control is second nature. I work both front and rear and have had many situations where I've had to panic brake. Honestly can't remember a time when I've actually locked up the rear wheel and I think that is because I apply a lot more pressure to the front under those circumstances.

 

Having said all that, it's really a good idea to practice this a bit more often, if for nothing else but to "hone" that "second nature" thing ... kinda like a brain memory refresh.

[Motorcycle Mike]

Good post Randy.

I've practiced emergency stopping on every bike I've owned and work in refreshers throughout the year.

It's saved my bacon on a number of occasions.

If you don't know how to stop it, you probably shouldn't get it going.

[saddlebum]

I fully agree. Getting proper feel of your brakes is a very good thing. Another good practice is sudden counter steering. I drive home at night when the roads are empty and take advantage of this by zig zagging through the spaces of the dividing lines at road speed just to get the feel of suddenly shifting direction. or will pick out something on the road treat it as a road hazard that suddenly appeared and wait until the last second to suddenly steer around it or make a sudden stop. After awhile it all tends to become second nature. You will be suprised how far you can push the bike beyond normal handling. and how comfortable you can get, once you get used to it.

 

With regards to delinking the brakes, I cannot swear that it is a better thing or a worse thing I can only say why I delinked mine and why I personally prefer it. When I first got my venture in 2005 I took an early spring ride through the back roads and at that time I was unaware that the brakes where linked and I had never owned a bike with linked brakes. As I came over the top of a hill there was a stop sign right on the down slope as well as loose sand on the pavement. I began to brake (gently because of the loose sand) to slow down but my front wheel locked up in the loose material and instantly slid sideways. I released the brakes and gently applied the rear brake only (or so I thought) and darn if the front brake did not lock again in the loose sand. By this point I was almost right at the intersection with no more room to stop so I gunned it through the intersection hopeing no cars where coming across. Later I found out about the brakes being linked and about delinking them. A few years later I delinked them and have not looked back. Yeh sometimes I have locked the back wheel up in loose gravel or sand but at least I still had steering control. Just beware that there is a big difference in locking up the back brake in a straight line compared to locking it up in a curve or turn. Better yet to avoid lock ups altogether but sometimes it just happens and also it is still better to use both brakes together when ever possible. I just like the option of being able to use the back brake alone when and if I feel the circumstances warrant it.

Edited February 9, 2015 by saddlebum

[Brenner]

Very well said Randy. I remember a time when people were required the have "Care and control" of their vehicle. Seems like now at days with everyone not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions it is a thing of the past. Now all you hear is weather conditions, road conditions, the vehicles fault. You rarely hear of anyone fessing up to their mistake or see anyone training properly to try to prevent the possibility of accidents and driver error. And most think they are better drivers than everyone around them. I can understand why we think this way just look at all the stunts and crap in the movies and even car commercials showing how with their vehicle "YOU" can drive like a pro, look cool, and make your own rules too. People don't like to hear it but it is the truth that if we all followed the rules in place there would be alot less accidents, but hey rules are for everyone else right?

[Yammer Dan]

I try to find deserted roads and do this in different road conditions. Clen pavement,gravel,sand covered. Sand is the tricky one. That didn't keep me from two sand drops in the last few years. One with "Brown Sugar" and one with "Silver". Lucky both very slow speed drops just very embarrassing....

[cowpuc]

GOOD THREAD RANDY!! And great responses/chatter we got going on here - I LOVE THIS STUFF!!

 

This is probably gonna sound INSANE but,, IMHO, being familiar with locking up a rear brake, being able to slide a bike out in front of you and using it as a defensive tool (let the bike hit the sign first) is a good way to stay alive.. On the other hand, locking up a rear brake, sliding the rear of the bike out a little, and than releasing that rear brake and ending up in a high side crash (being thrown in front of the bike - maybe even ending up getting ran over by your own machine) can be deadly!!

I still think that a small dirt bike (years ago - advanced road racing training services used XR100's for teaching this stuff - GOOD TRAINER BIKES) in an open field is a good place to learn - way before we venture out onto the highways with these great big heavy machines..

All that said, I KNOW that the majority of riders today aint gonna find themselves out in a hay field purposely tumbling around on the ground with a dirtbike out in front of them, to think that is gonna happen is only wishful thinking. If that is true, I wonder if these modern ABS systems that are found on lots of high end bikes aren't a real blessing.. I also think that, for the most part, the linked brakes on our 1st Gens were and are a real good thing for many people..

Personally, I use my front brake 95 percent of the time - most of the time its out of habit (and cause thats where all the real stopping power is at anyway) and cause I am lazy (I dont like taking my right foot down off Tweeks crash bar) BUT, I do still like being able to lock up the rear brake if I choose to. Randy, what you said in your original post about us 1st Genners not having to worry about locking up our brakes is RIGHT ON TARGET! This thread has inspired me to do some more digging into getting Tweeks set up with some good rear brakes - this spring I am gonna take another good look at them and see if I can get them to actually do a lock up on dry pavement -SHAME ON ME FOR NOT HAVING DONE THIS SOONER!!

Probably not the outcome you were hoping to hear Randy (inspiring people to set their bikes up to be able to lock the brakes up) BUT, in my case - its a necessary evil!!

 

THANKS FOR THE REMINDER CHAMP!!

Puc

[Flyinfool]

After the second time I nearly dropped the bike due to the linked brakes locking up the front tire on very slippery road conditions I did the delink. I am now in much more control on that slippery road that I have to traverse every day.

 

WHen I did the delink the first thing that I noticed was just how easy it was to lock up the rear wheel. I did some playing with the rear brake lever to get a better feel where I can still lock the rear if I need to, but it will take an effort.

 

I have done some practicing with panic stops. But I do it in a parking lot that gets a fair amount of use just so that if it all goes wrong I won't be laying there under the bike for to long before someone finds me. My first trip out in the spring is also to that same parking lot to freshen up my skills before really hitting the road. The parking lot is also big enough that I can practice stopping in a curve but still have all the room needed if I can not hold the turn.

[cowpuc]

After the second time I nearly dropped the bike due to the linked brakes locking up the front tire on very slippery road conditions I did the delink. I am now in much more control on that slippery road that I have to traverse every day.

 

WHen I did the delink the first thing that I noticed was just how easy it was to lock up the rear wheel. I did some playing with the rear brake lever to get a better feel where I can still lock the rear if I need to, but it will take an effort.

 

I have done some practicing with panic stops. But I do it in a parking lot that gets a fair amount of use just so that if it all goes wrong I won't be laying there under the bike for to long before someone finds me. My first trip out in the spring is also to that same parking lot to freshen up my skills before really hitting the road. The parking lot is also big enough that I can practice stopping in a curve but still have all the room needed if I can not hold the turn.

 

So Fool,, when you de-linked, did you take the time to hook up the left caliper to the front brake,, adding to the stopping power to the front brake.. Just curious if this is a common practice? Seems like it should be as ending up with the left front brake system just hanging there doing nothing would be pointless..

[CaptainJoe]

posted wrong place...

Edited February 9, 2015 by CaptainJoe
posted wrong place

[Leland]

When I first bought my bike in '06, I couldn't believe how fast the rear would lock up. I'm sure that coming from a '66 HD FLH with two drum brakes didn't prepare me very well. I bought a "Butler Mod" proportioning valve from Rick Butler. I really think that it is a big improvement although I don't know if he still offers them. I am also going to try the Kevlar pads.

 

If I ever get a new bike, it will definitely have anti-lock brakes.

[cowpuc]

When I first bought my bike in '06, I couldn't believe how fast the rear would lock up. I'm sure that coming from a '66 HD FLH with two drum brakes didn't prepare me very well. I bought a "Butler Mod" proportioning valve from Rick Butler. I really think that it is a big improvement although I don't know if he still offers them. I am also going to try the Kevlar pads.

 

If I ever get a new bike, it will definitely have anti-lock brakes.

 

Forget all this brake yakkin,, I wanna see some pics of the 66 Flh,, wasnt that the Pan/Shovel slab side generator model..

Yeaaa,, those old bikes came right from the factory with no brakes,, we always joked about stepping down on the rear brake and feeling like the thing was speeding up:crackup:

 

Opppssss,, sorry about the again,, I just get all excited when I read stuff about old Harley's,,,

[Flyinfool]

OK to TRY to steer old Puc at least sort of back on track.......

 

Yes part of the delink is having both sides of the front working.

[cowpuc]

I just noticed something that others may or may not be aware of,, in the right hand corner of the this thread is a box that says "rate this thread", I clicked on it and gave Randy's thread a 5 star rating cause I think this thread is really important for others to read - LOTS OF GOOD STUFF HERE!!

I am thinking this is probably gonna show up on the thread line within the watering hole, thusly letting folks know that they might wanna read Randy's post and some of the followup info.. Hopefully others get as much out of this thread as many folks already have (judging by the likes/thanks marks)..

Randy, its threads like this one that may very well save someones life,, THANK YOU again for putting this up my friend!!

Puc

[Skid]

I believe it is important to know and feel comfortable under extreme braking. And living in WV I do practice this often when every blasted deer that crosses in front of me.

[tz89]

I'm a firm believer in taking a skills course at least every other year, and I try to do it every year. Here in Oregon they offer a skills refresher which is cheap, and an advanced rider course which is not cheap (full day at a go cart track with banked curves in this part of the state).

[Venturous]

I can testify to the importance of practice braking. In late 2002, I was still riding my '93 VR with linked braking and anti-dive. Then I bought my '02 Midnight and got rid of the VR. Once spring hit, I starting laying down miles with no effort to practicing anything with the new bike.

 

With only 3000 miles on my new RSV, I got into a panic brake situation at 55 mph, The result? I grabbed a handful of front brake... instantly locked the front brake and went down hard. After 6000k in repairs, 5 surgeries, and metal to rebuilt my collar bone... I was back on the road again.

 

The first thing I did was sign up for the MSF's Experienced Rider Course where I learned practice techniques for emergency swerving and braking. I make it a point each spring to spend time practicing both. Even though this bike and I have shared 120k miles together.. it is still important to renew that muscle memory for heavy braking in a panic situation where we are reacting not thinking about how hard to brake.

 

Randy is so right. Practice practice practice!

[Eck]

When you get to where you think you really know the stopping power of your bike, take it on a gravel road and do the same tests......with and without your partner.. then come back and tell us how that works out........

 

As Skid hinted towards, I test my brakes every day as I ride like no one sees me.. :

[billmac]

You three wheeler's also need to practice locking up the breaks.

[Chaharly]

I just noticed something that others may or may not be aware of,, in the right hand corner of the this thread is a box that says "rate this thread", I clicked on it and gave Randy's thread a 5 star rating cause I think this thread is really important for others to read - LOTS OF GOOD STUFF HERE!!

I am thinking this is probably gonna show up on the thread line within the watering hole, thusly letting folks know that they might wanna read Randy's post and some of the followup info.. Hopefully others get as much out of this thread as many folks already have (judging by the likes/thanks marks)..

Randy, its threads like this one that may very well save someones life,, THANK YOU again for putting this up my friend!!

Puc

 

You three wheeler's also need to practice locking up the breaks.

 

 

Cagers too this is important to do in all of our vehicles

[Venturous Randy]

I think many of us 1st gen MKI riders get the feeling that we have the original anti-lock brakes, at least on dry pavement. No matter how hard we try, we can not lock them up. But, this is not a good thing because if there is one thing about most 1st gens, they will go hard, but stopping, not so much.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I feel that many will be getting on their bikes soon, after not riding in a while. Some will be getting on bikes that are new-to-them, some will be getting on bikes that their winter projects will be brake upgrades, from new pads to more upgrades like I will be doing with MKII forks and rotors, R6 calipers and SS lines. Then there will be many that will simply be a little rusty in their instincts and the main thing on their mind is to feel that power.

Also, keep in mind that many cagers have not encountered many bikes in a while and this also increases the importance of knowing our braking control and our bikes braking capabilities. If there is one thing that is absolutely predictable around here is if we have a couple of warm days in the winter, we have someone hurt or killed on a motorcycle. It just seems to happen about every year.

Randy

Edited February 10, 2015 by Venturous Randy

[cowpuc]

I think many of us 1st gen MKI riders get the feeling that we have the original anti-lock brakes, at least on dry pavement. No matter how hard we try, we can not lock them up. But, this is not a good thing because if there is one about most 1st gens, they will go hard, but stopping, not so much.

THAT IS A FACT!!!

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I feel that many will be getting on their bikes soon, after not riding in a while. Some will be getting on bikes that are new-to-them, some will be getting on bikes that their winter projects will be brake upgrades, from new pads to more upgrades like I will be doing with MKII forks and rotors, R6 calipers and SS lines. Then there will be many that will simply be a little rusty in their instincts and the main thing on their mind is to feel that power.

Also, keep in mind that many cagers have not encountered many bikes in a while and this also increases the importance of knowing our braking control and our bikes braking capabilities. If there is one thing that is absolutely predictable around here is if we have a couple of warm days in the winter, we have someone hurt or killed on a motorcycle. It just seems to happen about every year.

 

 

 

Randy

 

It is very similar to when we get our first snows, its like we all have to learn to drive/ride all over again. Sadly, in the process of doing so the injury and fatality rate goes up. Nothing hurts as much as losing friends and family to the very phenomenon you are talking about Randy, I hope people (myself included) will pay heed to your encouraging words of advice found in this thread!

[Leland]

Forget all this brake yakkin,, I wanna see some pics of the 66 Flh,, wasnt that the Pan/Shovel slab side generator model..

Yeaaa,, those old bikes came right from the factory with no brakes,, we always joked about stepping down on the rear brake and feeling like the thing was speeding up:crackup:

 

Opppssss,, sorry about the again,, I just get all excited when I read stuff about old Harley's,,,

 

A couple of pictures. The 66 was the first year for the shovel head. Second year for electric start. Had to replace the original buddy seat to reduce the seat height.

[cowpuc]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]97214[/ATTACH]

 

A couple of pictures. The 66 was the first year for the shovel head. Second year for electric start. Had to replace the original buddy seat to reduce the seat height.

 

Now THATS what I am talking about - GORGEOUS, JUST PLAIN GORGEOUS!! Its another flaw in my character,, I LOVE OLD HARLEYS!! THANK YOU FOR SHARING THOSE LELAND - BEAUTIFUL!!!