Resurrecting my '87 from a 5 year hibernation, I could use some advice

[Vonwolf]

My '87 has been sitting outside on a gravel drive with a good cover made for Ventures, its one of a half dozen projects that I have to get to and its time seems to have arrived. It was giving me a hard time in 2010 when my health took a nose dive so it was left, fuel in carburetors and no long term storage precautions taken. I really half expected the motor to be locked up and the bike to be a boat anchor, but when I jumped the battery with my truck the fuel pump ran and the motor turned over. It even ran a bit when I sprayed some starter fluid in it and it fired up and ran for a second or two. The fuel pump would run for a few seconds then stop as it should but, the carbs were a mess so I pulled them off to clean them up. I turned the key on to check see if fuel was getting to the carbs the fuel pump ran a small amount of gas spurted out of the disconnected fuel line then the Pump shut off?

 

I'm not familiar with this fuel pump but, shouldn't the pump keep running without any back pressure? When I pulled the pump and cleaned things up it still only ran for a few seconds then stopped, when I turn the key off then on the pump did the same thing ran for a few seconds then stopped. Is the pump bad as I suspect, is this a problem that can be repaired or will I need to find a replacement Pump?

[flyday58]

Welcome back. The fuel pump relay energizes the pump for 3 seconds when you turn the key on, so that's normal. With the engine running the TCI (computer) allows it to pump as needed to keep the float chambers full. The relay only allows 3 seconds of run time without the engine turning to prevent gas pumping all the time unless there's a demand for it.

 

I'll pretty much guarantee the carbs are gonna need a thorough cleaning of all passages and jets, and you should check the diaphragms on the slides closely for tears and holes of any kind. Hopefully you drained any old gas and started with fresh stuff.

 

Richard

[Vonwolf]

That is a big load off my mind, thanks it sounds like the fuel pump is doing exactly what its suppose to. The carbs are off I'm certain they're a real mess as I didn't bother shutting the tank off and let the crappy %10 ethanol gas varnish the carbs up good, the slides had a film on them and not moving very well. I have the Carbs off and been soaking them/ cleaning the exterior up. The slides are smooth and function well, thankfully there were no holes in the rubber. Next I have to take the covers off and see how bad the floats, needle valve, seats and all look

 

Thanks for the info on the fuel pump I was hoping it was some kind of safety feature but, my fuel pump on my car will empty the tank and kill the battery before it will stop. Now I only have about 50 more potential problems to look at.

[flyday58]

Took me FOUR times to get every orifice cleaned in my carbs, which sat under a leaky shed at least 6 years. Well, the bike did. Replaced all the diaphragms for good measure.

 

Lots of help here, really knowledgeable people. Post some pics when you can of your progress.

[Vonwolf]

I got the carbs taken apart with great difficulty it seems the previous owner tried to disassemble them using only an old beat up Philips's head screwdriver, a dull chisel, sledgehammer and a blow torch. It was quite challenging getting them apart with all those stripped out heads. there were a couple jets that looked like if I attempted to extract them it might be the end for them. the good news is it was nowhere near as varnished up on the inside as I expected so I'll get all the rubber and plastic out of them and soak them in some carb cleaner. The carb's outer finish is rough, to say the least, is there a way I can bring them back to looking somewhat improved?

 

 

 

Thanks Pete

[Vonwolf]

Ran into another surprise the diaphragm on number II carb was patched up with globs of some kind of liquid gasket, it does help explain why the bike ran rough and seemed way underpowered. I will never understand how some people cobble up something like this and dump it off on someone else, it's not like its harder to do the job right. I bought the bike on EBay for nothing and I knew there was a ton of work to be done but I missed this one big deal, I hate dishonest people.

So I disassembled the carb's and ordered the parts to rebuild the carb's and fix the diaphragm, I soaked the carb bodies in Chem-Dip and they cleaned up nicely and hit the diaphragm covers with the buffing wheel and the polished up like chrome but, now I get to wait for the gaskets before I can put them back together and on the bike, then I'll get to see what else got wrecked. I'm sure the bike will run good so that one thing to look forward to.

[flyday58]

You should replace that diaphragm, they're tricky but it's one less thing to worry about later. Diaphragms with holes...baaaaad idea.

[Vonwolf]

You should replace that diaphragm, they're tricky but it's one less thing to worry about later. Diaphragms with holes...baaaaad idea.

I ordered one from Ebay yesterday I've been practicing with the bad one taking it off and putting it back on, it doesn't seem that hard so I'm probably doing something wrong. I saw one youtube video where the guy ground off the metal ridge and used liquid gasket to glue the washers back together one guy said you had to boil them even I knew that would mean buying the whole slider. I found skydoc 17's Ebay Carb. Diaphragm write-up so I think I got it, I know I won't be grinding on it

[flyday58]

I just did this so I should remember, but not sure. But I think I used the rounded part of a paper clip to seat the new diaphragms. Once they are in correctly they will look stock, any wrinkles means it's not seated all the way round. Think I've got pictures on my home computer but I ain't home till Monday.

[Vonwolf]

It's time to go on to the real problem that I have not really wanted to face, but here it is the hydraulic's; Breaks and Clutch. They have also been sitting neglected for at least 4 years and are a mess, what fluid was in there has mostly disappeared and left a lovely white paste. The rear brake peddle is froze solid. it's a real mess. I tried to blow air through the lines and cleaned things up, I've read about rebuilding the slave cylinder for the clutch and if it has to be done, I'll buy a new one The others I'll rebuild. I have never messed with a hydraulic clutch, I really don't even know where it is yet, so I'll need some advice here. I have searched the site, have a repair manual so I'll go thru the paces I can find, I just wanted to see what others have run into after a bike has been improperly stored for this long. I really don't want to make it into a boat anchor, but it might be too far gone. When my health took a nose dive my priorities changed. I let a few things rot now I'm trying to save what I can

[flyday58]

Here's some views of the clutch slave cylinder. It's located behind the left rear engine cover.

You'll need a 5mm hex wrench or socket to get the two bolts out, they're not easy to see. Break the banjo bolt loose first, 12mm socket. Then scrunch up your toes and hold your mouth just right and it will finally come out. Trust me.

I replaced the seals initially but it continued to seep brake fluid so just got a new one. Good now.

As for brakes, they were the reason mine was sitting for five or more years. They'd locked up on the PO so he parked it under a leaky shed. I had to ebay all three wheel cylinders, both handlebar master cylinders and the rear master cylinder. The rear broke in half from aluminum rust when I tried to take the servicing bolt out, how's that for too far gone? Got it all off ebay for not too much money.

Yours may not be that bad off but mine sure were. Probably shouldn't have put this much money into something in such bad shape. Keeps me out of the bars and hostels, though.

[bongobobny]

For the cost of the rebuild kits, and the poor results unless you hone the cylinder, you are better off buying a new slave cylinder, they are not that expensive and will be a more permanent fix...

[Vonwolf]

I really don't want to admit this mistake, but we all have brain farts. When I took the covers off the reservoir I looked at the inside of the right one, saw the added float and all, somehow got it in my head that that was the clutch? Sooo while I foolishly tried to bleed the left "Break" with little success I thought I might as well break the banjo off to see if any fluid came out, there goes the clutch unknown to me, hell I didn't notice my mistake till I was ordering parts tonight. I have the calipers off and they look good and when I fill the correct reservoir break fluid dripped out the banjos dangling by the front forks and my ignorance was confirmed. Earlier I used my favorite tool, a hammer to see if I could get the back break to move, a can of WD and I now have rear breaks nothing I'd trust going around 100, but somethings happening back there so I feel better and if I figure out how to bleed the clutch I might have that too.

[van avery]

On bleeding your clutch.

If you look on the left side of the bike on top on the middle gear cover is a small rubber square with a bump in the center. pry it up and you will find the clutch slave cylinder bleeder just under that rubber cover. Bleed it just like you would a brake system. Most likely you should start by cleaning out the clutch master cylinder and then add new fluid to the resiviour then open the bleeder on the slave cylinder hopefully with a tube into a glass jar and bleed till the fluid runs clearer like what your adding the system. Good Luck

[Vonwolf]

Thank's I'll get on this today, I still can't beleave I did this I'm sure the clutch was working, just not like a break. I don't have any plastics on the bike so I sprayed the hell out of both reservoirs, blew air in them and things are really clean, but I was covered in fluid. I think I might get lucky and still have everything working, but luck is not my strong point so time will tell.

[Vonwolf]

I rebuilt the front brake master cylinder and the break's almost bled themselves, I now have good front break's I'm not real sure about the back because I can't really push the back break and try to spin the rear wheel, I haven't tried to bleed the rear yet, I'm not too concerned about it till I know the bike runs. I haven't got the rebuild kit for the clutch yet but I took an old oil can, filled it ith break fluid, hooked it up using a clear plastic tube to the bleeder and filled the system up backwards and the clutch works fine, I'll still rebuild the master cylinder when it comes in but at least I know the clutch works. I could not get the clutch to bleed the normal way, kind of strange.

[Vonwolf]

I cleaned the carb's to within an inch of their life, blew air through any jet, hole and orifice I could find, I made sure the floats worked, reassembled everything and put them back on the bike. Fuel poured out the no 1 overflow, so of they come again. I checked the no. 1 needle valve and it was like someone soldered it in place, same with the other 3 needle valves, I can't say I was surprised the carb's have been soaking in ethanol for 5 years. I ordered new seat kits and had to remove the old seats, that was interesting taking a hammer to your nice clean carbs, but they came out ok. Now getting the new ones back in was even more of a thrill, I could not find anything on reinstalling them, most of what I found said don't take the old one's out their pressed in and there's no reason to take them out, it did not fill me with confidence. I got them back in after a little trial and error mostly error, but I didn't wreck them, everything works fine and hopefully I get the carb's back on the bike today

[BlueSky]

I hope that works for you. Could the flooding possibly be caused by a bad float?

 

By the way, thanks for posting your experiences. We all learn when you do that!

[Vonwolf]

I scrubbed the old needle valves and tried to WD them to keep them loose, but in the time I took to reinstall them they were stuck open, when I took them back off and looked at the needle valves they were welded in the seat, no way to save them. That's why I changed the valve and seats with only guessing as how to get the seats out and even better reading that nobody has ever had a reason to take them out, a real confidence builder. It all seems to be working fine now, but of course I burned my starter out so I won't know for sure, but I have hope. I'm haveing a real tough time finding a starter with 4 brushes, those original 2 brush starters are useless.

[Venturous Randy]

Here are four starters on ebay that should be four brush starters. The last one came off a 93, but it is my understanding that the 93 was a four brush and it does not have the screws in the side like a two brush starter.

Randy

 

 

09 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Royal Star Starter Motor | eBay

 

99 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Royal Star Starter Motor | eBay

 

07 Yamaha Venture Royale XVZ1300 Engine Starting Starter Motor | eBay

 

1993 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Starter Motor Relay Engine 86 93 87 88 89 | eBay

[Vonwolf]

Here are four starters on ebay that should be four brush starters. The last one came off a 93, but it is my understanding that the 93 was a four brush and it does not have the screws in the side like a two brush starter.

Randy

 

 

09 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Royal Star Starter Motor | eBay

 

99 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Royal Star Starter Motor | eBay

 

07 Yamaha Venture Royale XVZ1300 Engine Starting Starter Motor | eBay

 

1993 Yamaha XVZ1300 XVZ 1300 Venture Starter Motor Relay Engine 86 93 87 88 89 | eBay

 

Thanks for the help, I bought a New starter for a VMax, it looks just like the one's off the RSV but I looked in the parts book and they supposedly didn't put 4 brush starters in VMax"s until '09, I called the vendor and he said it only had 2 brushes, the Parts book also puts 2 brush starters in all Gen 2 Ventures? I almost bought the 09 starter. but then I found out I canceled the VMax starter order too late, they said it was already shipped? I placed the order at around 1 AM and canceled 5 minutes later, that's some fast shipping at 1:05 AM, so now I have to wait to see the thing, check if its got 4 brushes and if it doesn't send it back and buy the 09 or whatever is left. I'll trust this form more than the parts book, but it did confuse the hell out of me for a time I must have had 50 windows open going back and forth, trying to make a decision. It was really getting on my nerves, I tend to over think things

[BlueSky]

If you search ebay using Yamaha XVZ 1300 or just XVZ1300 you will find the starters. And look for a 96 or newer to be sure.

[Vonwolf]

I've gotten the bike to run pretty well again I even managed to get the carb's synchronized somewhat, but I still get the old popping and some backfiring. I finally got around to looking into the pilot screws and got a very bad surprise not only were 3 of them stuck, but they have already been butchered to the point I had nothing to work with. Looks like the carb's are coming back off and from what I've been reading I have my work cut out for me if I can save them at all I'm not confident. I just can't beleave this has gotten by for so long I must be slipping, I've never had much luck extracting damaged screw's and I doubt I'll buy new carb's I might have to put her down

[Pegasus1300]

Start checking for vacuum leaks. Do you have the vacuum hose to the auto advance hooked to #2 carb? Pilot screws can be found on ebay. You may also try Sudco International. They have been the Mikuni Carb importer since Noah. Call them and tell them what you have and what you need maybe they can help. Google them for a phone #. Good luck on your project and just be patient with yourself and the bike. It will be worth your while when you are done. A well running Venture of any generation is a joy to ride and a very rare sight.People will want to know what that is and will not believe you when you tell them it is over 25 years old.

 

Since you are going back in there anyway you should go ahead and buy the other 3 diaphragms. They are a known wear item and prone to holes and if yours are original they are 28 years old.The black goo on the one diaphragm was a common repair back in the day when a new slide assembly was the only way you could get a new diaphragm and that was about $125.00. This was far more common in pre internet days when we didn't have the search resources we have now.There was a fellow in the old VTS who came up with a source at about 65$ and he was doing a land office business but if you didn't get the magazine or know someone who did you were SOL.

[Vonwolf]

Well, I finally got around to checking the Pilot screws and oh boy did I get a surprise. I have no idea how I’ve taken the carb’s off, cleaned them, replaced the needle valve and seats and all that jazz, but I failed to check the Pilot Screws? 3 of the 4 screw not only were locked in place, but even more fun the brass screw heads were completely destroyed there was absolutely nothing to work with. I soaked them, drilled them out, tried the Torx bit trick and a final desperate attempt with an easy out. All attempts proved futile and I finally destroyed one of the carb’s with the other 2 probably soon to follow. It looks like I will be needing a new carburetor set or give up on the old girl, I really don’t know how to proceed, but if I can find a reasonably priced Carburetor set I might go ahead with it, after all with all these screw-ups I’m starting to be pretty good with them. If anyone has a set of Carburetors that will work on an 87 Venture let me know, they don’t need to be perfect actually my internals are all good so the only thing I care about is that the Pilot Screws will come out, the slides and diaphragms can be Swiss cheese that not important. Let me know if you have something.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Vonwolf