Electronic guru's...relay with a timer?

[Venturous Randy]

I am in the process of swapping to MKII forks on my 83 and looking at options on the antidives. I am considering using the electronic antidives, but I would like to find a timer relay that when energized, it only stays energized for a short period of time, like maybe 5 or 10 seconds. My thinking is that the antidives are not really that necessary when doing a normal slowdown, only during a more aggressive stop. But, while sitting at a light or stop sign, the electric antidives creates a lot more load on the electrical system, especially on an MKI.

With a relay that has a timer when activated and would de-energize after say 10 seconds, the brakes would have plenty of time to have the effect of the antidive, but be inactive while sitting with the brakes on.

Any suggestions?

Randy

[cowpuc]

Hmmm,, this probably sounds insane but,, I wonder if a timer relay for a dome light in a car would work for what your talking about Randy?? Depending on the amp load of the anti dives, you might wanna wire up the timer to a higher amp relay between the timer and the anti dives.. Most of the switches (thats all the timer is) in our bikes work thru a relay like I am talking about anyway cause the little contacts, in lets say, a headlight switch,, cant handle the amp load and would burn up if they didnt have a relay that handled the amp load..

Any way,, I have NO idea how much a dome light timer would cost new BUT - I know our local junk yard charges a buck a piece for relays and switches (sometimes will give em to you if your nice like me,, and catch em on a good day:301:

[cowpuc]

Oh, by the way,, I really like the way you think!! Good thing we aint neighbors or our neighborhood would have grease and grime covering the trees and bushes.. Kinda like that Cat in the Hat did when he came to town

[Venturous Randy]

I think I may have found something that may work. The timer is set up to either turn on or turn off according to what time you have set, up to 10 seconds. If you use one side, it will turn power off after a delay which is what I am interested in, or it will delay to come on, which I will not hook up.

I just ordered 3 of these and with shipping it was only $7.52.

 

 

The thing I don't think most 1st gen MKI riders realize is if you are only using your front brake, only one antidive works. I have not looked at the MKII wiring schematic yet to see if either front caliper is used, will both antidives energize. I think this would be a lot more effective and if they are not wired that way, I will do it. I also will probably use another relay to carry the higher amps of both antidives.

I think the biggest compliant with the MKII antidives is the amount of power they take to operate and especially when you are at idle. This setup would eliminate that problem.

Randy

Edited January 31, 2015 by Venturous Randy

[MiCarl]

Great idea! I wonder why Yamaha didn't think of that.

 

As far as the MKI having one anti-dive on the front brake and the other on the rear, I'm not sure that's an issue. There are a lot of Hondas out there with anti-dive on one side only.

 

Of course I'm not sure ant-dives really do anything. I don't think they've put them on a motorcycle manufactured in the last 15 years. I was sorely tempted to just disconnect mine when I was in there last week.

[Flyinfool]

I was planing on eliminating my anti dives when i get around to installing the progressive springs. IIRC The electronic Anti dive on my bike pull 5 amps.

[frankd]

Randy,

 

On a MkII, both anti-dive solenoids are energized whenever the brake light is 'ON'. I've also been thinking of adding a Time Delay Relay (TDR) to mine, but haven't done it yet. How much current is the TDR rated to switch. I think to avoid doing damage to the TDR, that I'd add a diode (IN4001 or similiar) in parallel to the anti dive solenoids to limit the arc across the contacts of the TDR when the contacts open. Connect the diode's band (the cathode) to the lead to the solenoids and the other end to ground. Measure the resistance of the solenoids so we can determine how much current they'll draw to verify that you will not be overloading the TDR. MKII bikes have a relay for the solenoids, so on MKII's we could wire the TDR to the relay coil and not worry about overloading it.

 

I'll have my bike started late next week, so I can measure the solenoid current with my clamp on DC ammeter. I'll get back to you on this.

 

Frank

[bongobobny]

Verrrrry interesting!

[rbig1]

I know napa sells an adjustable timer has a knob for adjustment it will take a lot of amps. But I cant remember part number. Had them in dump box vibrate circuits so you didn't knock out lights. powered a relay

[Ozlander]

I thought I would miss the anti-dive when I changed my forks over to cartridge forks, but I don't.

Took the anti-dives off and install blocking plates. Cleaner looking forks.

[Neil86]

this previous thread has Jeff's amp draw tests...

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/first-generation-venture-tech-talk/79972-anti-dive-elctrical-disconnects-3.html

[bongobobny]

Or, use the relay to trigger the antidive relay and don't worry about the draw...

[syscrusher]

I just ordered 3 of these and with shipping it was only $7.52.

 

Randy

 

So these come with the board and the terminal strip and all at that price?

Are you going to tell us where to get them?

[Venturous Randy]

Try this:

DC 12V Delay Relay Shield NE555 Timer Switch Adjustable Module 0 to 10 Second | eBay

 

Randy

[Brenner]

Randy I have been watching your timer project for the anti dives and I have a question. It is my understanding that the anti dive system on the MKII is electrically activated and deactivated through the front brake switch whether on or off. I understand the system when activated restricts the oil flow in the fork to keep the fork under pressure so it does not compress and cause the bike to dive. My understanding is that when the brake is released the anti dive opens and lets the fork oil reverse its direction and recover with the assist of the springs and returns to normal ride height. I am going to assume that the anti dive will allow some bypass or there will be some dive when the bike is slowing down that we cannot control and in a normal system when off the brake the anti dive would open and quickly allow the fork to decompress, but if you had installed a timer would this not cause a unwanted delay? Meaning I ride my bike down the road and squeeze the front brakes depending on my switch adjustment and how tight my brake system is is there not a possibility that my bike might dive a bit then lock the solenoids and I release the brake and want the bike to level out but it won't till the timer allows it to do so? I know of two riders who ride their bikes with in my opinion half squeeze on the brakes due to not being able to "reach" or squeeze the lever. This in my opinion would not happen on that setup. I have big hands and have no problem reaching and squeezing my brakes and have them set up very tight meaning my brakes start to activate prior to the brake switch turning the brake light on. Would it not in a setup like mine possible delay my recovery in such an event? We all ride differently and have different setups and different riding conditions and quite possibly in the aforementioned scenario maybe the fluid already through the fork prior to the anti dive activation may be minimal enough that it's effect would be unnoticeable. I have just been pondering the pros and cons on this no more and no less than the other mods and ideas that are on this forum. I will be watching and if it works well I might just have to try it on my bike. Besides I am still waiting on the results of the covers project you told me about.

[Flyinfool]

As long as the delay relay is powered from the AD circuit it will still release at the same moment the brake lever is released. This will still allow the AD to release as normal.

[Venturous Randy]

Also, I believe there is already a relay in the MKII system for the brakes, which I would also install on my MKI and having the timer in the system actuating would be pretty instantaneous. I doubt you could tell the difference. Remember, the only difference would be that when you activate the brakes, the AD's activate as normal, but the AD's only stay activated as long as you have the timer set. And, the timer will reactivate again if you let off the brakes and then put the brakes back on. Keep in mind that this will also happen when you engage the rear brakes and anytime the brake light is on.

As far as the front brake and the adjustment for when the switch activates, I would want the brake light to come on as quick as the braking system is started. On my 83 on the hand brake, I don't think there is anyway I could start pressure going to the caliper without activating the switch.

Randy

[Brenner]

Randy and Flyinfool thank you for clarifying that. I was under the impression the timer would be powered with key on and the brake switch would start the countdown. My mistake, hey we all make them. As far as having the the pressure start before the switch I find my lever will travel a little bit prior to my switch making contact. Perhaps I will look at other switches from my parts bike as it may be a worn switch contact issue. Since I went with the gold dots I find the brake very tight and less travel compared to the original calipers. All new no play I guess. I do not have drag but there is an adjustment (screw and lock nut) on the lever that I have adjusted and it don't take much for my front brake to start operating. I like a handful of squeeze, makes me more comfortable and in control. I would rather regulate my hand to use a full lever than to adjust the lever to the comfort of my hand as I have seen on other bikes. Speaking of which it may take me some getting used to a hydraulic clutch as I am used to a cable clutch and honestly prefer the heavy feel that my Harley has. Maybe my mind will change once riding my venture for awhile.

[syscrusher]

Speaking of which it may take me some getting used to a hydraulic clutch as I am used to a cable clutch and honestly prefer the heavy feel that my Harley has. Maybe my mind will change once riding my venture for awhile.

 

Different bikes behave differently but I notice on my VN2000 that the cable clutch will work differently when I have the bars turned full lock. This has caused me to stall while trying to do a delicate low speed turn, in which case I need my foot down on the pavement quick or let the clutch out more. If I'm already stalled with the bars at full lock letting the clutch out to near full engagement could cause an ugly incident especially if i'm just trying to get into a parking space. This doesn't happen with a hydraulic clutch since it doesn't wind a cable differently at different handlebar angles. You may or may not find that it has it's advantages depending on your experiences with the cable. Hydraulic clutches don't have a cable to fray and catch or break either.