automotive head gasket clean up

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

My sons' little dodge mini van seems to have blown a head gasket. The oil is like creamy pudding. How the heck do I clean the oil system up? I know it is going to take a couple of oil changes but should I be adding a cleaner to the oil ?

 

This van has a 3.0 liter V-6 in it.... when I went to pick up the gasket set the guy at the parts store asked me if I wanted new Head Bolts. He said the norm is to change them when doing gaskets.... they are $165 for the set. Does anyone know if I need to? This motor has about 145,000 kilometers.... about 90,000 miles

 

Any help would be great

 

Kevin

[djh3]

Yea a lot of head bolts went to "torque to yield" maybe 10 years or more ago. With that being said I bet I have put 5 or more back together with the same head bolts. Most time the spec will say something like torque to 90 ft lb and turn 1\8 more. Me, I would look the bolts over and probably reuse them. I would be more worried about the aluminum head having a bad spot. Are you changing both head gaskets, or just the bad one? To clean it out yup will take a couple oil changes. Get a couple of the cheap oil filters. There use to be a motor flush product Risoline. Reminded me of kerosene. Might try say 2qt of kerosene and a couple qt of cheap oil. Run it for 45 min or so and see what the oil looks like. If one dose looks Ok put regular oil in it and run it a few days and see what it looks like. Then general sense from there.

[Freebird]

I've been through that a couple of times in my life and all I did was flush the radiator after replacing the head gaskets. In my case though, I was getting oil in the coolant system, not water in the oil. I assume that you will have the heads checked for warpage? I would also be concerned with what caused it to blow a head gasket. All of our company vans are Dodge Caravans. We put about 150,000 miles on them and I've never heard of one having a blown head gasket. If something happened that caused it to overheat, there is a good chance that the heads will need to be machined.

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

The head machining was something that was brought up by one local mechanic. I am not sure what the "torque to yield" means, this is a 1994 van.... nothing new under that hood.

It was very out of the blue... puzzling, this van has been one of our company vans since new, they sold them off to employees so I thought... such little mileage and a good bill of health from the mechanic that had been servicing it, this van has a golden background.

We have had a cold snap around here... it got to freezing maybe as low as 30*F but the coolant was good and checked weekly while in company use up to 6 weeks ago.

[Oldodge]

I have reused torque to yield head bolts but it is not "best practice". If the reason for tear down is a blown head gasket I would probably replace them. Check Rock Auto for head bolts, I have had good luck with them when my local supplier has been what I felt was out of line on pricing. To clean the oil I usually add a quart of ATF in place of a quart of oil and run it a short time and change the oil again. Repeating until the oil looks good coming out. Usually two changes has done it. As has been mentioned, have the heads checked for warping.

[Freebird]

By the way, you say that you are not familiar with Torque to Yield bolts. Here is a decent explanation of what they are and why they should not be reused.

 

Torque-to-yield fastener - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Eck]

........ To clean the oil I usually add a quart of ATF in place of a quart of oil and run it a short time and change the oil again. Repeating until the oil looks good coming out. Usually two changes has done it.

 

 

 

Yep, Yep Yep.. Done this myself many times.

 

I have also done this:

Removed the oil drain plug..

Drained the old oil

Then I started the vehicle - yes, with no oil in it...but only let it idle

And as soon as I started the engine I began pouring 5 gallons of kerosene into the engine (same place you normally put the oil in)

As soon as the 5 gallons are in, I shut the engine off

All the Kerosene that went in, is also coming out below because the drain plug was never reinstalled after I removed it (step 1 above).

I let all the Kerosene drain out,

Replace the old oil filter with a new one

Re-install the oil drain plug

Then I put new oil in

I would then change the oil & filter again a week or so later after driving it a couple hundred miles

 

The Kerosene really cleaned the engine out.

[Venturous Randy]

As a previous owner of a Dodge van with the 3.0 engine, I found that engine had a reputation as being a "disposable" engine. The next Caravan I bought had the 3.3 engine and was a much better engine. I suspect this is the engine the vans have that Freebird uses.

If you go the Rockauto, they show a set of head bolts for that engine made/sold by Fel Pro for about $26. they range from about $23 to $47. a set for different suppliers. I have had real good success with Rock auto. You can check the ADDY I attached and see what comes up.

I just checked with Advance Auto and their price was $37 for enough to do both heads. I think you better check your parts store again, or find another one.

RandyA

 

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1077599,parttype,5308

Edited January 7, 2015 by Venturous Randy

[frankd]

Also with 90K on a 3.0 Mitsubishi, it's time to replace the timing belt. This is an 'interference' engine, which means that if the cam and crankshaft get out of time, a valve could hit a piston.

[Flyinfool]

With all of the oil cleanup methods described above it must be stressed to also replace the oil filter with each of the changes. These cleaning methods will not only get the water contaminated oil out of the engine, but will also clean out any sludge that may be inside of the engine. these chunks of STUFF will fill the filter pretty quick, you sure do not want to be driving with a plugged oil filter.

 

If it were me, any time I have the heads off of anything, it gets a valve job too.

Have the shop check the heads for flatness to see if they are warped.

Check the deck on the block to see if it is warped.

If the block and heads are warped, you might be cheaper off with a low miles used engine.

[jakester]

I worked at a Chrysler dealer back in the day. We replaced lots of Heads and head gaskets. It seems the valve guides would wear out too, causing oil consumption. I do not remember the heads being all that high. While they are off, have them checked. Lots of good information here.

Good luck.

Bill

[Angelo]

I have done that job so many times I don't care to count. Make sure you send the heads into get checked out. Carquest usually has a machine shop on site that can do the work and for those heads it will be somewhere around $80-100 per head. They will install the new seals and everything for you as well as check for cracks/warpage.

 

For the head bolts, do not reuse them. I have had to redo more than a few head jobs for guys that tried to save money on that part. If you pay more than $60 for the bolts you are paying too much.

 

For cleaning the engine, any of your parts stores will have cans of engine flush available. It's cheap and you won't have to worry about possible damage to any of the bearing surfaces. You most likely have oil in the coolant as well even if you don't see it, so make sure you drain the entire cooling system and run a cleaner (also available at your parts store) with just water for 15-20 minutes after it reaches operating temperature, then drain and fill with coolant.

[Condor]

My Grandson is dealing with the same problem. Blown head gasket on my old Suburban that I gave him. 5.7 Vortec with 200K on the odo, and aluminum heads. I haven't wrenched on a 350 Chevy in years and this new headbolt, torque to yield, is new to me. On a bigger engine is this going to be a problem?? He's trying to do it on the cheap. I think we do have him talked into having them surfaced...

[Angelo]

My Grandson is dealing with the same problem. Blown head gasket on my old Suburban that I gave him. 5.7 Vortec with 200K on the odo, and aluminum heads. I haven't wrenched on a 350 Chevy in years and this new headbolt, torque to yield, is new to me. On a bigger engine is this going to be a problem?? He's trying to do it on the cheap. I think we do have him talked into having them surfaced...

 

Replace them, they are cheap. Chevrolet has a 3 step torque sequence on those heads as opposed to a degree after torque, but the concept is the same, one time use. You definitely want those heads pressure checked, almost always have to have them repaired. Like I said above, Carquest has good machine shops and they are usually one of the cheaper places to go.

[MikeWa]

Do not use any cleaners in the oil. Change the oil and filter then run the engine for ten to fifteen minutes. Change the oil and filter again. You are good to go as far as oil is concerned. Use a good grade of detergent oil. Changing the coolant when you do the head gasket is generally good enough. Just be sure to add extra water pump lubricant or you may be changing the pump in a few weeks.

 

On a side note. Antifreeze molecules are coarse like liquid sandpaper. Depending on how long the engine was run with a seeping head gasket engine main or rod bearings may have sustained some damage. Unfortunately only time will tell. If it holds up great. If not it is not because of anything you did or did not do. It is because of the nature of liquid sandpaper in the oil. I have done hundreds and hundreds of head gaskets and engines. The odds are somewhat in your favor but not completely.

 

Good Luck

Mike

[MikeWa]

On the subject of torque to yield bolts.

To tell if the bolt is completely ruined . Pinch two fingers or finger and thumb together one on each side of the bold. While doing this slide the bolt between the fingers. Start at the head and slide it to the end of the threads and back again. If you feel a little dimple anywhere in the bolt it is stretched and no longer serviceable. Bolts that pass this test mayor may not work. But those that fail are for sure bad.

 

Mike

[utadventure]

My Grandson is dealing with the same problem. Blown head gasket on my old Suburban that I gave him. 5.7 Vortec with 200K on the odo, and aluminum heads. I haven't wrenched on a 350 Chevy in years and this new headbolt, torque to yield, is new to me. On a bigger engine is this going to be a problem?? He's trying to do it on the cheap. I think we do have him talked into having them surfaced...

 

I just had a head gasket done on my Ford 4.6L Triton.

 

The head bolts are made to torque to the specified amount and then be tightened an additional amount. As they are tightened, the bolts stretch. This deforms the bolts, which is the reason for replacing them when redoing heads.

[kevin-vic-b.c.]

Doing the reading in the Haynes manual here and it seems that the head bolts are just Torqued to 70 Ft-lbs. No extra turn so I am assuming that these bolts with not be stressed but yes and inspection will be made. Book says to make sure to put them all back in same place they came out.

The van had been sitting for a few days and so we drained the oil out, I guess it had separated and drained out with the "caffee moka" as my son called it, settling on the bottom of the drain pan. We drained the coolant as well and you know .... it is clear. I could have reused it if I had not put it into the same drain pan we had drained the oil int before. But a gallon of coolant is cheap in the big picture.

Tomorrow we will get into the big stuff removal.

[djh3]

If the bolts are under the 50 or so buck range I probably would change the bolts also. As a second thought, being it has no cross member under the motor best I remember I might think about pulling the pan and clean it out good after all is done.

[frankd]

Also, oxygen sensors don't like antifreeze being burned and passing over them. I'd wait until you fix the head gasket leak and make certain that everything looks OK before worrying about it. When you pull the heads (and you are pulling them both, aren't you?) look at the combustion chambers in the heads. If a cylinder has had coolant in it, it will look cleaner than the rest. Rock Auto is a good place to get the O2 sensor also.

Frank