4 into 1 intake...thoughts?

[pofarm]

I ran across THIS last night. What do you all think?

[wrenchrob]

I ran across THIS last night. What do you all think?

Is there a reason u would want to remove your original carbs? I mean if properly tuned they work well. I think u might b looking at drive ability or a lot of tuning concerns going to something like this.

[GaryZ]

I have been playing with this idea for over a year. My '85 carbs are plain wore out and I want more air to feed my Vmax cams. The concept of feeding multiple cylinders with a single carb has been a standard in cars forever . . . However, I have discovered there are two types of people in this world; those that can make stuff, and those that are completely dependent on others to make their stuff. You will get lots of negative responses from the latter.

[Prairiehammer]

I ran across THIS last night. What do you all think?

 

That is interesting. There was a similar four into one setup (welded steel) for First Gens Ventures on eBay for about $350 or so and it did not include a carburetor. This one is 'cast composite'.

If you can get the carb tuned to your engine, then I see some potential with that setup. Three fewer carbs to keep clean and repair. Much cheaper carb cost when replacement becomes necessary.

May I suggest you order the package and tell us how it worked out.

 

EDIT: Further research has indicated that today's (made in China) EMPI carburetors are of poor quality. Investigate the possibility of buying the manifold alone and then seek out a Solex for the carb.

[djh3]

If I was going to mess around reworking fuel delivery, I would adapt fuel injection from a v-max probably.

[dna9656]

Boy howdy do I get simplifying things! You need to know the CFM and fuel requirements of the M/C engine and if this carb can deliver, what about the vacuum advance? You need that to input into the ignition, Gary has an after market ignition that is tune-able, he'd be the one to ask but I think he'd be skeptical. This would be way better than a car; on V-6s and V-8s the outer cylinders get less air/fuel (in theory) that the cylinders closer to the plenum; the V- 4 cylinder on our bike(s) has all the cylinders equal-distant from the plenum so the cylinders would have the same vacuum draw hence (in theory) get the same amount of fuel. Multiple carbs are A solution to that problem, BUT like most things involving a carb there are (at least) a few compromises where fuel injection has LOTS of advantages. I saw one like this on E-Bay for $500.00 (I thought) but do not recall what brand of carb it had on it.

Edited December 29, 2014 by dna9656

[Venturous Randy]

I think a closed loop fuel injection system from a small car like a Honda and they should be plentiful in junk yards. It could be the multi-port type or the single throttle body type. I think it is very doable.

RandyA

[pofarm]

May I suggest you order the package and tell us how it worked out.

I don't think I can use it without modification. I have a 96 with the 28mm carbs. I'm guessing this is for the newer models with 32mm carbs.

[dna9656]

So adapting a fuel injection setup from a 4 banger Honda or other would require the injectors... (if multiple injector(s) you'll need to place them into the intake...or a throttle body could be mounted much like a carb making things a bit simpler. You'll need the computer (and a place to mount it) and what ever sensors it uses to function too. All the sensors will have to be located in a correct place something that I'm sure will require some experimentation. Sensors like a MAP sensor, engine temperature, possible ambient temp sensor, throttle position sensor, maybe a fuel pressure sensor too. You'll need a fuel return line as well. You'll also need a proper fuel pump, it will have to achieve the volume/pressure required AND fit someplace. Most cars use a pump located in the fuel tank because it's easier to "push" a liquid than it is to draw one...Holley had an external one for there "Pro-Jection" system a while back, I have 2 of those, I don't think that are big pressure producers though.

[pofarm]

Boy howdy do I get simplifying things! You need to know the CFM and fuel requirements of the M/C engine and if this carb can deliver, what about the vacuum advance? You need that to input into the ignition, Gary has an after market ignition that is tune-able, he'd be the one to ask but I think he'd be skeptical. This would be way better than a car; on V-6s and V-8s the outer cylinders get less air/fuel (in theory) that the cylinders closer to the plenum; the V- 4 cylinder on our bike(s) has all the cylinders equal-distant from the plenum so the cylinders would have the same vacuum draw hence (in theory) get the same amount of fuel. Multiple carbs are A solution to that problem, BUT like most things involving a carb there are (at least) a few compromises where fuel injection has LOTS of advantages. I saw one like this on E-Bay for $500.00 (I thought) but do not recall what brand of carb it had on it.

I wonder about the TPS, myself. According to their description...

This is cast manifold, professionally engineered, very easy to install, no additional parts needed, perfectly fits original intake boots. The runners are identical length which causes even gas distribution to the cylinders. This is fully tested manifold, works great, saves lots of gas. Installation instructions are included in this listing.

Supposedly a bolt-on system.

[pofarm]

So adapting a fuel injection setup from a 4 banger Honda or other would require the injectors... (if multiple injector(s) you'll need to place them into the intake...or a throttle body could be mounted much like a carb making things a bit simpler. You'll need the computer (and a place to mount it) and what ever sensors it uses to function too. All the sensors will have to be located in a correct place something that I'm sure will require some experimentation. Sensors like a MAP sensor, engine temperature, possible ambient temp sensor, throttle position sensor, maybe a fuel pressure sensor too. You'll need a fuel return line as well. You'll also need a proper fuel pump, it will have to achieve the volume/pressure required AND fit someplace. Most cars use a pump located in the fuel tank because it's easier to "push" a liquid than it is to draw one...Holley had an external one for there "Pro-Jection" system a while back, I have 2 of those, I don't think that are big pressure producers though.

Many good points to ponder. I know there are aftermarket controllers (Megasquirt comes to mind) that are very compact, tunable for many different injectors, and don't require as many sensors as the OEM units.

[dna9656]

Take that with a pound of salt.....

[GaryZ]

It seems obvious that in a perfect world someone could buy a universal EFI, adapt an existing EFI system from another motorcycle, or maybe a small car. The issue for me is the cost; an aftermarket system is likely $3,000, a used system from another motorcycle would likely be $2,000 (if you can find one) and a small car system is likely about $1,000. And these costs do not include the re-programming! My carb idea should be a couple hundred dollars using a rebuilt carb. For me, it's all about the cost. I bought the bike for $600, added lots of cool stuff and have about $1500 in the project. Yes, I could spend $2 - 3,000 dollars and still be way less than a new bike. However, I don't have that kind of money to spend on my toy.

[lmgk77]

I apologize for coming to topic 7 years late, due to my current situation i came across this solution just yesterday evening  (10-27-2022).

 

On ebay.....this four into one intake manifold was posted 

Venture Royale XVZ1200 and XVZ1300 single carburetor manifold 1982 - 1989, eBay item number:175240492411

Re-reading the topic thread, are really good considerations.

For me it's about spending est. $1700 due to a very unreasonable "unserviceable" part(s) maybe $30.00 worth plus labor and time

I estimate maybe $250-300 and some custom garage shop engineering, I would get a very agreeable carb set up and away from un-obtainable parts...............

What's your thoughts, and really curios has anyone done this?

 

    

[saddlebum]

So far I have not had any issue with parts to rebuild my carbs. I prefer the 4 carb over the single carb mainly because you can fine tune each carb to its respective cylinder, getting the max performance out of each cylinder, were as with a single carb you can only tune it to its best compromise among the 4 cylinders.

[lmgk77]

I agree with  the ability to fine tune each carb to each cylinder. Wish I didn't have this problem.

For a relatively modern machine I've never experienced a total lack of a component(s) for a critical part.

My example...carburetor throttle shaft and the seals at each end, deemed unserviceable, not available separately from carb.

My bike inop.

So far the only two sources I've found:

          OEM dealership assy $1700 (+/-) some semblance of part warranty, maybe 2-3 months ship time

          Junkyard pull off assy $400-500 (+/-) no warranty of any kind, especially non-returnable

Given the oversimplified option (possibility) of 4 into 1, maybe the cost/availability was a consideration at $300-400.

Get bike back on the road............

I was looking at future maintenance/repairs and solving availability of parts

 

 

[saddlebum]

You could look into  a fuel injection conversion such as https://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/ignijet/ignijet 12/ignijet 12.htm