Yes, another valve adjustment question.

[VanRiver]

I purchased two 1986 Venture Royale's this year as a father-son restoration project, one has 86,000KM and the other 47,000km and no history or service records to indicate the last time the valves were checked or adjusted. So to be safe I thought it would be wise to adjust the valves on both bikes right away, especially the one with 86K on her.

 

I have attempted to read every forum post about Valve adjustment (and there are a lot). I've read posts saying that it is relatively straight forward if you take your time and have the right tools....I have also read frantic requests for help and horror stories of shim miscalculations, chipped valve buckets, stuck shims, and of course sad stories of people spinning the engines with no shims installed causing damage!

 

I already have bought the special yamaha valve tool and have 4 new valve cover gaskets ready to go.....but have not bought shims at this point.

 

Anyway long story short, I have 2 questions that I would like to get the veterans advise on:

 

1. Should I even try this on my own as a newbie? I love to learn, turn wrenches, and I'm cheap! Therefore I was very eager to do it myself before I read all the forum posts. Not to mentions there is a local Venture expert who charges $250 labour, plus gasket cost, and shims costs per bike to do the job. Is it worth $500-$700 to avoid all the possible damage, personal stress, and problems I might experience?

 

2. If I do it myself, Shims? My plan was to do all the measurements and calculations first (with the help of Dingy's awesome spreadsheet and my Yamaha Manual) then order the shims sizes I need off of eBay to complete the job (so far I have not found a local source for shims). Would this work? Or do you recommend that I have a kit containing a wide selection of many sizes just incase for some trial and error testing with different sizes which I couldn't do with my original plan of only buying what I needed?

 

Your expert feedback is much appreciated!

[MiCarl]

 

1. Should I even try this on my own as a newbie? I love to learn, turn wrenches, and I'm cheap! Therefore I was very eager to do it myself before I read all the forum posts. Not to mentions there is a local Venture expert who charges $250 labour, plus gasket cost, and shims costs per bike to do the job. Is it worth $500-$700 to avoid all the possible damage, personal stress, and problems I might experience?

 

Doing the valve lash is time consuming (The price you got is about half what I'd charge in my shop!) but not particularly technically challenging. You've got the only special tool required. If you're comfortable spinning wrenches I'd go for it.

 

2. If I do it myself, Shims? My plan was to do all the measurements and calculations first (with the help of Dingy's awesome spreadsheet and my Yamaha Manual) then order the shims sizes I need off of eBay to complete the job (so far I have not found a local source for shims). Would this work? Or do you recommend that I have a kit containing a wide selection of many sizes just incase for some trial and error testing with different sizes which I couldn't do with my original plan of only buying what I needed?

 

 

Your plan is the best approach. I priced out putting together a shim kit once. Using educated guesswork you'd be North of $300 on the kit and it wouldn't cover every possibility. Plus, it's winter so you don't need to turn them around in a weekend.

 

Take your time, use the manual. If you aren't clear on something stop and ask for help.

[camos]

2. If I do it myself, Shims? My plan was to do all the measurements and calculations first (with the help of Dingy's awesome spreadsheet and my Yamaha Manual) then order the shims sizes I need off of eBay to complete the job (so far I have not found a local source for shims). Would this work? Or do you recommend that I have a kit containing a wide selection of many sizes just incase for some trial and error testing with different sizes which I couldn't do with my original plan of only buying what I needed?

Pretty much as MiCarl said, just purchase the shims you need. I would not classify myself as an expert but I did this job on my 90 VR about a year ago so if my memory is correct here are some points I recall.

 

Working in dribs and drabs, it took me about a month to complete. Mostly because I walked away when I became frustrated. The valves need to be measured twice. Once to record what is in there and determine the correct replacement shim and then again to put them in. Some of the original shims can be reused if you are lucky. I had to purchase 10 new ones. Getting the shims out can be difficult and set of mechanics picks and a magnet on a stick was a necessity. I found getting to TDC on the power stroke by counting engine revolutions was problematic so opted for just getting the lobe pointing up to measure the clearance. You will notice the shim cup will rotate as the tool is compressing the spring. The cup slot will move to an inaccessible position unless it is setup prior to applying pressure. Make sure the shim number is on the down side when inserted otherwise the lobe will wear the label off.

 

When installing the gasket, be very particular about checking that it is properly in place before tightening it down. I thought I had been but managed to not notice a small inconsistency in an almost impossible to see position resulting in a leak. Fortunately the gasket was not damaged. As I discovered when trying to find the leak, a strong light and a mirror are needed to properly inspect the gasket and the cover.

 

Hopefully my memory is correct and this will be of help.

[Prairiehammer]

One more important note to add to Clive's.

You will need a 32 mm socket to rotate the crankshaft. Do not be tempted to use the rotor bolt.

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/attachments/412/412-g-modified.jpg

 

Also: check on eBay for '25mm' shims. The 25mm shim is the correct diameter for the Venture and many other makes and models. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=xvz+shim&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.X25mm+shim.TRS0&_nkw=25mm+shim&_sacat=0

Edited November 29, 2014 by Prairiehammer

[djh3]

Here is an idea. You are going to do both bikes. Check both, and like suggested measure twice. In order to know what shims to oder is out of tolerance, you need to know what it currently has in it. I will almost bet if you keep a sheet of what is in where, measure then you know what you need. You can probably move shims around between bikes and have one up and running and the order parts and fix the other. I have a bag full of shims and probably 10 or more are so big you would never use them unless the head had just been redone.

[Pegasus1300]

Remember this is a "father/son"project. The work is relatively simple just time consuming. Perfect opportunity to teach patience, attention to detail and self reliance in a challenging situation.

 

Measure all the valves look for the ones you can swap and oly order what you need after that.

[Venturous Randy]

I have swapped out used shims both from the local Yamaha shop and an independant shop. both times they never charged me anything.

RandyA

[Marcarl]

Do not leave the shim out as you rotate the cam. Bad idea!!!! Measure the shim, take it out to read it, put it back in right away!!!!!

[djh3]

I use a sheet I put together, to refer to so I knew which shim was in what hole.

Valve check settings work sheet.xls

[Neil86]

In order to trade shims around between cylinders you still need at least one spare shim, preferably a thin one.

[MiCarl]

In order to trade shims around between cylinders you still need at least one spare shim, preferably a thin one.

 

Typically you'll need some new ones anyhow. Here is how it do it:

 

Make a map of clearances and shim thicknesses. Figure out which ones need to be changed and write them down on a list. This is your "pool". Then map from your pool where the shims go back in. The ones you can't do from your pool get new shims.

 

When the new shims come in work backward - install the new shims, freeing up the old ones for the pool. Put the ones from the pool in their new spots, put the ones removed in the pool. You work like that until done.

[djh3]

MiCarl, kind of better explanation of my suggestion I think. Thats why I attached my work sheet. It has a couple blanks. I use one for the shim thats in it and the other for my measurement. So if say there is a .300 in there and its tight you know where you can get one from should you have say a .310 somewhere that needs to be replaced.

In my searching E-bay for shims, most of the time I have found them cheaper if you look for say 25mm valve shim or the other bikes it will fit.

Honda

CB750, CB750C, CB750F, CB750K, CB750SC dohc (79-83)

CB900C, CB900F, CB1000C, CB1100F, CBX (all)

Triumph

Hinckly triples and fours

Speed Triple, Tiger, Daytona, Trophy, Sprint

* All watercooled three and four cyl. models*

Yamaha

SRX250T (87) SRX250TC (87), XT250L & XT250LC Dual (84)

TT350, XT350 (86-00)

XJ600 Seca II (92-98)

XVZ12 XVZ13 Venture Royale Royal Star (83-93) XVZ1200, XVZ12

VMX1200 V-Max (85-02) Vmax, VMX12

FJ1100, FJ1200 (84-93)

[frankd]

How about an official Yamaha video showing how to adjust the valves? Watch video #2. Remember that on Mk II bikes you don't have the YICS chambers to mess with.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?89779-Official-Yamaha-Gen1-Mechanic-Training-Videos-So-Cool!&highlight=venture+video

 

I never worry about the shims I'll need before checking the valves on my Ventures. Usually you don't need to change any shims----you are merely checking the valves, finding that most of them will be in tolerance.

[Neil86]

VanRiver...

I would expect you can access shims in Calgary without ordering new ones and shipping. Try smaller independent shops they will typically have a shim kit in their shop. Even my Yamaha dealer will trade me shims for a couple $ exchange (vs $9 per new shim).

The nice thing about trading shims is the factory built the engines with 250-252-255-258-260 etc shims but Yamaha only sells

250-255-260-etc shims so you can't dial in the clearance as well.

I have a range of sizes if you get in a bind give me a shout.

[Flyinfool]

Now if you were just closer, When i do mine this winter I plan to swap around as many as I can to get it rite.

For the ones that are left, If they only need to come down a couple of thou then I will head to the correct corner of the basement and fire up the surface grinder to get them perfect.

[djh3]

Dont they have to rehardened after grinding them down?

[Prairiehammer]

Dont they have to rehardened after grinding them down?

 

You don't grind the case hardened face where the cam runs, the 'Fool would grind the bottom of the shim.

[VanRiver]

Thanks everyone for your fantastic insight and advice! You have all helped convinced me to do this project myself. Once I get some spare time I will also visit some of my local motorcycle shops to see if they are willing to swap shims, much better advice then first going to eBay like I planned. Hopefully I will only need a few different shims if my motors are still relatively in spec. Sorry, no surface grinder in my home workshop to grind my own shims ('Fool I'm jealous of your skills and power tools!).

 

So, these motors tighten up over time.....Is it true that a properly shimmed motor should have a audible "tappet click" and sound a little like an "angry sewing machine"? One of my bikes sounds like that (the one with lower milage) the other bike with almost double the milage on it is very smooth and quiet......maybe too quiet!

Edited December 2, 2014 by VanRiver

[djh3]

What happens is the clearance gets closer (tight) The spring on the valve is trying to pull the valve further into the head, thus closing the gap. So then you need a thinner shim. Now if you need some 288 shims let me know, I seem to have an over abundance of them.

[MiCarl]

Mine aren't very noticeable.

[Flyinfool]

Don't be jealous, tools and toys I have, that just takes some luck being in the right place at the right time.

Skills, not so much. But I am having a blast trying to learn some skills.