NOT feeling safe at all

[biofractal]

Hello Venture friends

 

First and foremost if this topic I am about to discuss does not belong here please excuse me, I am still new to the forum and I was not sure... Webmaster please forgive my lack of experience...

 

The topic is about feeling unsafe/unstable in my 05' RSMV when riding curves. First I would like present some facts about myself and the bikes I own, not to try to impress anyone (which I doubt) but to give you my background.

 

I have been riding for more than 10 years (which is not impressive I know) however I have take every single Motorcycle Safety Foundation course available to us in the Navy, including the Sport Bike class. I also have a motorcycle license for UK which is pretty hard to get in comparison with the US. I own a Yamaha FZ6, a Yamaha RS Warrior, Honda shadow 750 ACE and the RSMV.

 

After taking my Military Sport Bike Course combined with the reading of the book Total Control by Lee Parks, I started having a lot of fun in the corners with my FZ6 and the warrior... however the day I purchase my wife's bike, the Shadow 750, I noticed a lot of wobble on the handle bars and I was not feeling safe... so I started looking for possible causes and found that the front wheel was out of balance. After solving the balance issue the situation improved but not a lot.

 

Now when I purchase my RSMV I took things very very easy because I was getting used of the bike... after a couple thousands miles on the bike I still feel that the bike is going to slide on curves if I don't reduce the speed drastically. I understand this is not a racing, muscle bike like my other two... BUT... I also noticed a similar wobble when going on the highway at 75 -80 miles (which in reality is 70-75) and taking a big arc curve. I don't feel the bike solid on the ground. I have been thinking on messing around with the air pressure on the forks, but I haven't done my research therefore I haven't touched that.

 

As I Previously mentioned the wobble on my wife's bike, that same wobble is the one I am feeling on the RSV but less drastic. I would like to attribute this to the tires... first both bikes have dunlop tires (the classical cruiser tire)... and both bikes have got these tires for a long time... not even sure for how long

 

Maybe the rubber has harden up a little bit. I was thinking on putting new tires, avon tires maybe with a more low profile like with ones Avon AM42 Venom 150/90B15 or something similar. I have Avon in my warrior and they stick like glue.... I feel super safe.

 

You guys are the GURU's of this bike... I am pretty sure you will point me in the right direction.

 

BTY I have Venturerider.org fever... I spend hours and hours reading and I want to do so many mods to this bike.. but lack of time, money, tools and not having my own garage are in my way LOL....

 

THANK YOU very much for your replies...

[saddlebum]

I had similar issues and found my steering head bearings were adjusted too tight. Once I readjusted them too a point of zero lash without being tight the bike handled curves like it was on rails and the high speed wobble I had went away. As much as too loose is bad too tight is also bad. If the head is too tight the front wheel cannot make proper use of the caster angle built into the steering geometry.

[etcswjoe]

I second the head bearing, if that does not take care of it check your tires front and rear.

[OrlinEngh]

I to agree with the neck bearings, If your tires are getting old and wore down its time for new, cuped tires will make it feel unstable and give you that sliding feeling in the corners.

Orlin

[Motorcycle Mike]

another vote for checking neck bearings.

Also, what pressure are you running in tires?

[eusa1]

the factory tires that might be on the old girl is my point of guess?

give us a few more clues about the brand the age and miles that may be on the tires?

there is a date code on every tire.

mike:detective:

[djh3]

I suggest looking at your tire pressures and age. there is a thread here about how to get the manufacture date of the tires and I think the recommendation of change based on age. I think 3 years or so. Tire pressure recommendations are going to base on whose tires you are using. I just removed a pair of Michelin Commander 2 off mine I got 17k+ on. Now Michelin does not make the 150 for the front and you have to go with a slightly narrower 130mm front. but it helps with the slower end of the handling and around town stuff.

I have not seen the front tire cup out so much as the rear. My last dunlap E3 was cupped and in corners initially it kind of made it feel "bumpy or porpoise" then noise started to pick up. Kind of a howel in corners. If you look at the tire going straight across you will see the edges are feathered.

I just mounted up a pair of Shinkos to give a try and see how they run out. but I would say probably the top 3 suggestions your going to get is the Michelin, Avon and Dunlap E3

Check you rear shock. Look for evidence of leakage and also function of rebound. the rear shocks are notorious for going out.

[Condor]

All of the above are great suggestions on what to look for, but you mentioned that you haven't addressed the fork pressures yet, and that's what you should have done first thing. Uneven fork pressures with cause a variance in how the forks will react under compression in cornering....

[MikeWa]

Fork pressure as mentioned above, tire pressure stay on the high side, head bearing don't let the motorcycle shop blow you off on this. Find someone to do it right or do it yourself.

 

Good Luck

Mike

[cowpuc]

Hi Bio,

Sounds to me like you have gotten a good amount of respectable advice going here,, as always..

I, like most of these other elbows, have experienced high speed wobbles too and can understand your concern - THAT IS A HORRIBLE FEELING!!!

 

There are many number of things that can cause that wobble..

Checking the tires is the first place I would start. Check air pressures making sure they are to spec, rub your hand over the tire tread on both tires, feel for any abnormalaties. Also, check around the rim and make sure the tires are seated properly (there will be a small rubber ridge on the tire where it meets the rim, if mounted properly - this ridge will be exposed all the way around. Also, on some tires there is a SPOT on the sidewall that is suppose to be lined up with the valve stem while mounting the tire. You might even check to see if its inline.

It might not be a bad idea, if you have the time, to lift your bike up off the ground and give it a good shake down.. Besides checking the neck bearings, check your wheel bearings (had a friend who complained of what your dealing with and was heading to Tail of the Dragon - I shook it down and found a front wheel bearing GONE - day late for the Dragon BUT), check for front caliper brake drag, check swing arm bushings, spin the tires and make sure they spin true (no belt slippage).. Also not a bad idea to give the forks a close look, check for spring sacking and fluid levels/freshness..

I have noticed many times that different pavement surfaces can also create wobbles and movement too.. If you happened to be on a sweeper that had rain grooves, that will do it.. Does this happen a LOT or just on certain roads?

While never having actually ridden an RSV (I am a 1st Gen Venture "Sport Touring" kinda guy) I can attest to the RSV's capabilities as a result of both following them and leading them thru many many twisty situations.. A good example - CMCoffey, Tip and I put our bikes (his RSV - an 02 named Exodus) thru the paces up on Mt. St. Helens and his boards were never more than a 1/4 inch from the pavement - BEAUTIFUL!!.. I have owned several sport bikes (Kaw, Buell and Yam) thru the years and I am almost certain that Coff comes from the same background.. I can attest to the fact that these bikes are NOT sport bikes = apples and oranges. Besides totally different in design, the weight of these big bikes is a huge factor in ripping up the twisties.. On the same token though,, they are remarkable and totally capable of awesome lean angles and cornering.. You just HAVE to respect the amount of weight your carrying thru corners, judge the corners a closer even at slower speeds..

Confidence on and in your bike comes from riding it - its like anything in life, the more time you spend at it - the confident in its abilities you become.. I know that Coff is a MAJOR iron butting crazy guy who spends a LOT of time on his bike and it shows!

I also have many many friends who ride that either dont like riding a lot or doent have the time to.. Just recently I was leading a group on a cruise up the lake shore here in Michigan.. About twelve bikes with a variety of rider skills represented.. One of these people, who - by the way - had taken the State Training, HD Beginners and Advanced Classes and got her license a couple years ago, was at the end of the group and rolled off into a field on a corner - YIKES.. We really were not going that fast (I was trying to pace the group considering we had beginning riders with us).. When talking to her about it, she said she was afraid to lean her bike in the corner and just rode it off the roadway instead of turning. Another person in the group blamed me for going to fast - thusly causing the other rider to miss the corner.. Whenever I am Ride Captain I ALWAYS remind people to "Ride Your Ride".. When the girl who missed the corner heard the other girl make the comment that it was somehow my fault, she immediately said - "It was not his fault - I was simply not riding MY ride..

IMHO, while I really really like the idea of these rider courses being offered and LOVE to go down and ride the Local Harley Course in my spare time for practice, I still think that there is nothing like real world practice when it comes to building confidence and skill levels.. I think the courses are a GREAT place to start but it is ONLY the beginning.. For me, personally, the beginning was many many miles ago and I am still enjoying the learning curve, still building confidence, still learning to judge corners to determine speed levels, still caught off guard when I hit rain curves and get that feeling of having a flat or something and on and on... Its all part of biking..

Hope this all helps in some way!!

Puc

[steamer]

I assume you purchased it used. Is it possible the previous owner installed a lowing kit. I had one on my first 99. it did not handle well at all with the rear end lowered. after removing it, it was like riding a different bike.

[dacheedah]

agree with everything said, I didn't like the 404's and tires and their condition can change everything. Raise the front and spin the tire with your hand just rubbing the tire to see if you have any cupping. Check the air pressure in front shocks just to see they are even. Tire pressure is everything, check the date code on those tires, you want the rubber to be 5 years or newer.

[friesman]

I felt the same way when I first got my 03 rsv, and after removing the old Bridgestone tires and putting on a set of Michelin Commander2s the bike felt like a new bike. Michellin doesn't come in the OEM width for the front so I went to the 130 width to make the bike feel much easier to handle at low speeds. I run the tires near the max most of the time and keep my forks even and fairly high as well. I do vary the back shock based on whether I have a passenger or not, and Ive noticed if I don't put the back shock close to max the front tire sometimes gets a bit skittish and feels loose at highway speeds.

 

Brian

[GeorgeS]

Be sure you do NOT use the air hose at the gas station to air up the Fork Tubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in case you did not know that. You can easily blow the seals, of the shocks with a high pressure tire air hose

 

Get a hand pump, for airing up the front forks, and rear shock !!!

You can buy one at almost any Harley dealer .

 

Only use this, hand " Zero Loss " air pump on your suspension system !!!

 

Also, if you your bike has OEM Bridgestone tires, get them replaced with either, Avon's, Michileans, or Dunlop E-3's !!!

The Bridgestone's are , well, $%^&*@# if you get my meaning .

[biofractal]

OK. guys... thanks for all the inputs. I am going to try to answer and comment about everything said so far.

One thing to consider is that I live in a apartment complex with no garage and very limited tools. Thankfully my apt is in the ground level and I park right in front of my "balcony" so getting the tools in and out is not that hard. I mention this just for you to take in consideration when you guys suggest "do this, check that", is harder for me than for the average joe with a garage and a bike lift.

 

Here I go:

 

Saddlebum, Etcswjoe and orlinEngh:

 

In regard to the Steering head bearings. The bike has just 12,000 miles. This makes me guess that they are not bad or in bad shape. My current problem is that I suffered a hand injury last friday and I can't do anything to check them. Again based on the millage they should be fine... when my hand heals I will check them. HOWEVER.. If anything looks out of the ordinary I have no idea how to adjust, loose or tighten them up.

 

Motorcycle MIke: Tire pressure is right now what the user's manual specify. I actually pumped one pound more in the front to try to help with the heavy stirring.

 

EUSA: The age of the tires..?? ready?? SEVEN YEARS!!!! Here is where I think most of the problem is. This tires has plenty of thread, but I guess the rubber is has become very stiff. They are as you guys guessed the Dunlop 404F. I am pretty sure that when I get to change the tires I would have a completely new experience riding it.

 

Condor: the forks pressure is ZERO... there is no air at all.

 

Georges: Thanks for the tip on not use any kind of air compressor... I will buy the pump you recommended.

 

Cowpuc: I appreciate your comments. The wobble is not terrible... but is there. Is not like the Wobble of Death that the Vmax produces. But certainly I can feel some kind of instability when riding a big curve with a long arc in the highway over 75 mph. As far as the wheel bearings, as soon as my hand get better I will be able to check them. As far as leaning capabilities of this bike I am still impressed. I have scrapped the pegs of my warrior many many times... I haven't being even close to that with this bike. It seams that the bike will first slide than touch the floorboards. I know this has a lot to do with #1 the tires #2 the confidence and riding skills. I am still getting used to this bike and it massive weight. Now talking about that I sat the other day on a HD Road Glide Ultra (888 lbs by the book w/fluids) and I can tell you that I the effort i had to put to get it of the side stand was 1/3 of the effort I use for my RSMV. Besides being almost the same weight the RSV feel 3 times heavier.

I agree with you... courses are just the beginning and only practice and time will improve those skills... is a life long learning process.

 

Steamer: No lowering kit as far as I know. In fact I am lookinf forward to do the buttler seat mod to get closer to the ground. Being 5'7" is not the ideal height for this bike...

 

Dacheedah; yes you are right the 404f is the ones on this bike... 7 years old!!! as I mentioned. And I know for fact this bike was sitting for at least one year.

 

Friesman: I was reading about the issues of putting a 130 in the front... some people didn't seem to like it much... is a matter of taste or does the bike handles worse at highway speeds not keeping the line?

 

GeorgeS; Thanks again... Bridgestone... Not Good ..Check!!! I like the Avons just because I have them in my RS warrior and I love them.

 

Thanks you all for all your ideas. I guess I will have to wait until my left hand heals and I get a set of new rubbers .. but then Winter will be here. Oh Well.. I will update this thread when that time comes.

In the mean time Ride safe and keep posting coz is great to learn from you all

[djh3]

biofractal; The tire sounds like exactly what my E3 was doing before I replaced it. I was looking for a picture I know I saw but I cant find it right now. suprized huh? But did you look this thread. Look here No air in front shocks is what a lot of folks run. With not having a lift you wont be able to do the steering head or change tires yourself. There is a way to lower the bike some by slipping the forks up in the triple tree. But here again you need access to a lift. Maybe we can get you hooked up with a maintenance day.

[Flyinfool]

Hope your hand heals quickly.

 

With just 12K on the bike the head bearings likely are not bad, but it is very possible that they are out of adjustment.

[cowpuc]

Your welcome Bio, truthfully,, nothing funner than sitting around on a rainy day yakking bikes with my buds here!! Wishing you the best in healing of that hand!!

All of the above are great suggestions on what to look for, but you mentioned that you haven't addressed the fork pressures yet, and that's what you should have done first thing. Uneven fork pressures with cause a variance in how the forks will react under compression in cornering....

 

Adding to what Jack is pointing out,,, I grabbed a Honda CB1100F (cool bike - Red, White and Blue) a number of years ago.. Guy I got it from had only owned it a few weeks and said he was terrified of it cause he got it over 100 and it developed a wobble... Bike rolled straight, looked good so, what the heck, I grabbed it..

Tires looked good, no sign of frame damage, paint on the welds on the frame showed no sign of cracking (paint chips at stress points on frame = probably been dropped).. Ran er up to a buck and quarter (effortless for the 1100F) and sure enough, sure felt like a tank slapper was in the works - make ya pucker for sure!!!

Going over the bike with a fine tooth comb I discovered that somewhere in the bikes history it had lost a fork seal and only had maybe an ounce of fluid in the left fork,,, forks appeared perfect - just no fluid in one side.. Rebuilt the forks, stuck in a set of progressive springs, 10 weight fork fluid set to proper/equal depth...

Bike rode as on rails and as solid as rock up to 150 where I shut her down!!!

As Jack mentioned, fork problems can definitely cause issues like we are talking...

[cowpuc]

Hope your hand heals quickly.

 

With just 12K on the bike the head bearings likely are not bad, but it is very possible that they are out of adjustment.

 

Sheeshhh Fool,, this is beginning to happen way to often to be a coincedental,,,, you keep slipping in on these just before I do:confused24:

If your using a set of those "Directional Beams" like we use to use in CB Radios to pin point me I HOPE you directionally point them west or something before you attach the White Wash Machine to em:stirthepot::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Flyinfool]

Sheeshhh Fool,, this is beginning to happen way to often to be a coincedental,,,, you keep slipping in on these just before I do:confused24:

If your using a set of those "Directional Beams" like we use to use in CB Radios to pin point me I HOPE you directionally point them west or something before you attach the White Wash Machine to em:stirthepot::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

 

[saddlebum]

With regards to the RSV feeling heavier it is because it is a little more top heavy, the HD has a lower center of gravity.

 

With regards to tires slipping in the curves, I suggest replacing them. The rubber gets hard with age and looses grip as a result, regardless of how much tread is still on the tire. I have fishtailed in corners because the last set of tires on my bike got too hard from age and even though they had lots of tread left it was not worth my hide to to continue using them.

Edited October 6, 2014 by saddlebum

[biofractal]

I cannot agree more.... now is time to begin searching for a good set of tires... im a little OCD and like to make the best decision to get the bang for my buck... I will start searching the forum.

[Trader]

You dont' need any tools to To check the steering bearings.

...to Adjust them...yes...but not to check them.

 

Just get the front wheel off the ground.

Give the handlebars a swift push to one side. The forks should hit the stop and bounce back VERY LITTLE.

 

I would say no more than an inch or so. If they bounce back further, the bearing is too loose....if they don't bounce back at all....too tight.

[biofractal]

You dont' need any tools to To check the steering bearings.

...to Adjust them...yes...but not to check them.

 

Just get the front wheel off the ground.

Give the handlebars a swift push to one side. The forks should hit the stop and bounce back VERY LITTLE.

 

I would say no more than an inch or so. If they bounce back further, the bearing is too loose....if they don't bounce back at all....too tight.

 

Roger that!! Thanks for the tip:lightbulb:

[besttec]

I concur with the posts on tires. I was having wobble that was getting really scary and figured I had to work on the front end for sure. I did some rudimentary checks and things didn't seem out of wack. I knew I needed the front tire so I replaced it. Things got better, but still had some issue with instability. A buddy added that a bad rear tire can also make it seem like a front end problem... so I finally had a chance to get that replaced... and voila... problem solved. Then after about 200 miles my rear tire got "screwed"... literally. I ended up having to replace my new elite with a 404 to make a ride... but still being a fresh tire I have had no problems. Ran about 400 miles for the Texas Honor Ride, about half in light to medium rain... and had no issues. I do miss the opportunity to ride on that elite though...

 

Please post how you made out on your attempts to fix your problem. I personally am having a rear suspension problem with bottoming and bouncing... So I am scrutinizing posts dealing with that issue now.

 

Ride safe!