Rear brake pad with pics

[BJB]

I have a 1989 Venture. When I crawled underneath to get a good look at my brake pads I found this. Hope the pics show it well enough. The pad to the outside of the wheel (ie right side of bike when sitting on it) has worn at a very bad angle. The other pad is not as bad, but actually has the opposite wear angle. Obviously, the pads need replacing. I suspect the pistons and seals as well? Are there only two pistons in the rear calibre? That is what local Yamaha dealer says....at about $113 each and another $50 for pads. Is there a cheaper source online? Should I get a kit and redo the master rear as well? Thanks.

[ctraylor]

As far as pads go, ebay has them for $29.00 for two sets. Try www.flatourmotorcycles for parts. They are about the cheapest I have found.

[ctraylor]

Excuse me that is www.flatoutmotorcycles.com

[Squeeze]

For what i can see, this is a 4 Piston Caliper. And this would be standard for a '89.

 

If the Pistons are sticking, you might consider rather buy a used Caliper in working Condition than buying the Repair Set for a Lot of Money.

 

But, i said IF ..... might be a good Chance that the Pistons work and move like they should, but only the were set with that Offset and now wearing out angled ...

 

My Honda Dealer has this done with very expensive Sinter Pads in 1985. I came back two Weeks later and with totaled Pads. He wouldn't agree on their Fault. Many many Thanks to him.

 

This was the last Time any of my Bikes have seen a Workshop other than mine.

[Guest Bigin]

That is wierd, that puck is way out there.

 

Cant explain that not knowing the history of the bike and brake maintenance, possibly one is froze.

 

You need to take it apart and see whats going on, not difficult to do.

 

Can tell you the caliper seal kits are 30-40.00 per caliper depending on where you get them.

 

Did see one set on ebay for couple bucks cheaper but not enough to make any difference.

 

Doing all of mine soon, waiting on parts

 

Hopefully thats all it needs is new seals, and surfaces cleaned up.

[CrazyHorse]

I rebuilt mine its kinda of a job but not too hard but something you want to do right. If it's never been done I would do all the brakes, clutch etc, masters, calipers etc especially on a 19 yr old bike. I used flatout also. This project will take awhile though if you do all brakes and clutch.

[buddy]

By looking at your photo BJ your caliper is frozen on one piston. Can be a bugger but it can be saved by taking it apart and cleaning it up real good. As long you have no pitting or scaring on the piston walls you will be OK, rebuilt caliper kit - line flushing and new pads as well. look your rotor over once you get to where you can give it a good look over. Rotor should be OK but if it has a big lip around the edge you might be looking at replacing the rotor too. As for the brake pads try and stay with the OEM , there are some out there like on EBay that would wear your rotor out.

Flatout motorcycles - DGY - Buckeye performance are good dealers!

 

On my Gold wing the rear caliper was sticking too but not from the inside but from the outside had so much road grime on the piston it would not let it retract. once I cleaned the grime away it started working fine.

[Rocket]

I have a 1989 Venture. When I crawled underneath to get a good look at my brake pads I found this. Hope the pics show it well enough. The pad to the outside of the wheel (ie right side of bike when sitting on it) has worn at a very bad angle. The other pad is not as bad, but actually has the opposite wear angle. Obviously, the pads need replacing. I suspect the pistons and seals as well? Are there only two pistons in the rear calibre? That is what local Yamaha dealer says....at about $113 each and another $50 for pads. Is there a cheaper source online? Should I get a kit and redo the master rear as well? Thanks.

 

I looked it up, $71. per pair for pistons & seals (2 pair needed) from flatout mc, the choice is your on the source & what to replace. But some things I have priced there is $50. cheaper there, than at bikebandit. I wouldn't even ask the local dealer, as with prior experience from him, at least twice the flatout price.

[BJB]

I looked it up, $71. per pair for pistons & seals (2 pair needed) from flatout mc, the choice is your on the source & what to replace. But some things I have priced there is $50. cheaper there, than at bikebandit. I wouldn't even ask the local dealer, as with prior experience from him, at least twice the flatout price.

 

I found those also...good price. However, Flatout says I need two. Squeeze says I need four, and my manul (printed off this site for 86-93) on page 6-14 says I need four.

 

If I take the caliper off, then brake fluid will drain out of the hose, correct? Should I put hose end in container and activate rear brake foot lever until it quits pumping fluid? Introduces air but what else can I do? The fluid is probably colored to some extent and should be changed anyway.

 

Is there a good way to get these pistons out of the caliper? If I do manage to get them out, do they have to go back into the same hole ie don't mix them up? Thought I read somewhere about using forced air to get pistons out? What about seals...do they stay in or come out with pistons? Sorry for so many questions but have never done this before.

[Rocket]

I looked it up, $71. per pair for pistons & seals (2 pair needed) from flatout mc, the choice is your on the source & what to replace. But some things I have priced there is $50. cheaper there, than at bikebandit. I wouldn't even ask the local dealer, as with prior experience from him, at least twice the flatout price.

 

I found those also...good price. However, Flatout says I need two. Squeeze says I need four, and my manul (printed off this site for 86-93) on page 6-14 says I need four.

 

If I take the caliper off, then brake fluid will drain out of the hose, correct? Should I put hose end in container and activate rear brake foot lever until it quits pumping fluid? Introduces air but what else can I do? The fluid is probably colored to some extent and should be changed anyway.

 

Is there a good way to get these pistons out of the caliper? If I do manage to get them out, do they have to go back into the same hole ie don't mix them up? Thought I read somewhere about using forced air to get pistons out? What about seals...do they stay in or come out with pistons? Sorry for so many questions but have never done this before.

 

2 pairs needed $142. USD for new pistons & seals or about $27. USD for just new seals

 

Put the caliper end of the hose to minimize spillage, don't pump, flush brakes after re-assembly.

 

I have not the chance to rebuild calipers, myself yet (we just replace them). But air pressure will work on most, on really stuck pistons, reconnect to brake line, block other pistons after bleeding, pump stuck piston out, with brake pedal.

 

The seals, normally come out afterwards & go in first.

 

BTW I had ordered a rebuild kit for mine before (2 piston) & still have it for when needed. Flatout said 1 required, I had received 2 pistons & seals, with ordering 1 piston assy.

[BJB]

Thanks Rocket. Will try to take it apart tomorrow night so I can make a decision to order parts Thursday.

[Tupperj]

 

Is there a good way to get these pistons out of the caliper? If I do manage to get them out, do they have to go back into the same hole ie don't mix them up? Thought I read somewhere about using forced air to get pistons out? What about seals...do they stay in or come out with pistons? Sorry for so many questions but have never done this before.

 

 

Boomer,

 

If you have a stuck piston, I'd recommend leaving the lines attached and dismounting the caliper from the bike. Then, you can use a C-Clamp or two or even three to stabilize the three pistons that will move and pump the brakes to force the stuck one out. Be warned, if you push it all the way out with fluid, you will have brake fluid all over. Not good, eats paint. Once you get the problem child most of the way out you can push the others out to the same level and then usually pull them out with something, just be careful not to mar the outside of the pistons.

 

Paul

[lonestarmedic]

Be careful on this trick. The piston may come out violently. Block the other three and

then cushion the other piston. I realize that the travel isn't great but I usually

put a piece of wood opposite the piston. Then I wrap the caliper with a rag

or towel and the apply the air. I worked with hydraulic cylinders a lot and a

piston can eject with enough force to do damage to a finger, arm etc. And

remember that the piston can hit and crack throwing a chip.

 

JB

[kf_sk_mccall]

Been there, done that ...

 

This is a common problem with the rear brake caliper. Upon disassembly and a thorough cleaning you will discover that the steel backing plates of the brake pads have hammered grooves into the internal mating surface of the caliper body. To fix the problem inexpensively, rough up the gouged surface and then fill the gouges with JB Weld. After the JB Weld cures, then file or sand the surface flat and smooth.

 

In regards to caliper pistons and seals, over the winter I have rebuilt two calipers and found that the pistons and seals only needed a thorough cleaning, not replacement. Be sure to clean out all of the crystalized brake fluid that you'll find behind the seals. I used bamboo skewers as a scraping tool to clean out the seal grooves.

 

Ken

[BJB]

This morning I found some time to remove the right side bag and get a closer look at that caliper. Took some pics (sorry about the quality) and have attached them here. I would say just by looking that 3 out of the 4 pistons are not moving and are frozen. I will clean them up more and then try to loosen the frozen ones by blocking or clamping the others and then actuating the brake pedal, being careful not to shoot the piston right out. Once they are all loose, then I will disconnect the brake line and use air to remove the pistons completely, again being careful. Sounds like the right approach?

[Tupperj]

Won't guarantee it's the RIGHT approach, but it's how I'd do it.

 

Be careful, have fun and enjoy the satisfaction of doing this yourself.

 

Paul

[Squeeze]

Definitely sounds like a good Plan

[BJB]

Ok guys. Here are a couple more pics of caliper and pistons. I have cleaned the pistons exterior with brake clean, cloth and fine steel wool and wash again with brake clean. Have pushed pistons back in and using brake pedal pushed them back out again. Trouble is they all move at different rates. So using blocks and c-clamps I have got them to this stage still attached to the brake system. I now plan on removing caliper from bike, draining as much brake fluid from caliper as possible, and gently using air push pistons out. They must be so close to coming out now! Any other ideas/suggestions. Thanks to all the replies so far, and to the PM's I have gotten.

[Guest longtrain59]

Same thing happened to my 99 on a trip from Dallas to the Grand Canyon. The stuck piston wore out the pad and ruined the rotor. After I removed the caliper I discovered a build up of road grim on the piston that would not retract. I removed the pistons and cleaned them with brake cleaner. I put the caliper back together and replaced the rotor and pads. I now clean the pistons when I change the rear tire.

[BJB]

I finally got them out. I am sure somebody probably told me but honestly I don't remember.....only one side of two pistons can come out at a time! Silly me I thought it I matched them exactly in the middle, they all four would come out. This is how I did it for those of you who have never seen a caliper before. I had two pistons that moved more freely than the other two so I blocked and clamped them so they could not move. Using air I managed to blow the other two out. I then tried to get the pistons I had just removed back in to then work the other two, but I could not get them to go in. (Note to self....get help here when it comes time to put the pistons back in after the new seals arrive! There has to be a trick or method!) Anyway, after getting the first two out, I put two pieces of thin plywood over the exposed piston holes and clamped them there. This wood blocked the air that was flowing freely out the exposed holes and also provided a soft contact surface when the other pistons exited. Then, using quite a bit more air volume, I managed to move the other two pistons out. Waiting for seal kit to arrive monday so I can put things back together.

Question. Now that it is all apart, is it wise to remove the rear reservoir etc and clean/flush it out with new brake fluid? I did not order any parts for the master cylinder but perhaps I should have. As always any and all comments appreciated.

[Condor]

I finally got them out. Anyway, after getting the first two out, I put two pieces of thin plywood over the exposed piston holes and clamped them there. This wood blocked the air that was flowing freely out the exposed holes and also provided a soft contact surface when the other pistons exited. Then, using quite a bit more air volume, I managed to move the other two pistons out. Waiting for seal kit to arrive monday so I can put things back together.

Question. Now that it is all apart, is it wise to remove the rear reservoir etc and clean/flush it out with new brake fluid? I did not order any parts for the master cylinder but perhaps I should have. As always any and all comments appreciated.

 

Might as well do everything including cleaning the reserve.... Also check the expansion hole and make sure it's not plugged.

 

As far as removing the pistons, it's too late now, but remove and service them one at a time. I cut a piece of oak the thickness and width of the caliper opening with one side cut out to let one piston come out and the other three to stay in. Then just by rotating the wood I can 'burp' one piston at a time. Keeping the others in and makes it much easier for the compressed air to do it's job. It also helps keep from mixing up the pistons so they go back into the housing in the same hole. That may be the reason your piston is hard to get back in. Also the pistons don't just slip back in, you need to apply pressure with a large pair of channel locks. Sorta 'massage' them back in.

 

After your successful getting your rear brakes back amongst the living, bleed the brakes once a year. The reason your pistons froze up in the first place is the moisture in the brake fluid caused rust to form on the cylinder walls, and the pistons to seize. Rusty cylinder walls are a biatch.... Bleed 'm once a year and you won't have this problem.

 

Remember, piston movement when applying brakes is only a couple of thousandths of an inch, and only adjust out as the pad wears. The pads don't retract but 'float' just off the surface of the rotor. Hope this helps.

[Guest Bigin]

Great info guys. Strugglin with frozen calipers here also.

 

The wood block technique is something I was trying to figure out how to use, but you solved it for me.

 

What a great bunch of folks

 

Thanks again.

[CrazyHorse]

You've done well so far. With that old of bike I would do it all. On mine I removed the resovoir and and master cylinder and throughly cleaned them they had a ton of brake fluid crystals in them put in a new master cylinder. I replaced all the master cylinders on the bike both brakes and clutch and I also replaced the clutch slave. The front brake master cylinder and clutch master are a pain to get out you have to make a tool basically to get the c-clips out. I would do like CONDOR says flush the brake fluid each year it does'nt cost much to do that and it could save your life.

[BJB]

Thanks for the replies guys. Condor....I don't know where my brain was! What a great idea. I knew my seals are coming in tomorrow, and all pistons had to come out, so I proceeded. If I would have waited it sure would have made life easier. Oh well, live and learn.

 

So can I remove the rear master cylinder without a replacement kit? Will seals etc in there go back in or am I wasting my time? If I am going to wind up with a brake system that is iffy then I would rather order the correct parts and do it right the first time. Thanks.

[Tupperj]

Thanks for the replies guys. Condor....I don't know where my brain was! What a great idea. I knew my seals are coming in tomorrow, and all pistons had to come out, so I proceeded. If I would have waited it sure would have made life easier. Oh well, live and learn.

 

So can I remove the rear master cylinder without a replacement kit? Will seals etc in there go back in or am I wasting my time? If I am going to wind up with a brake system that is iffy then I would rather order the correct parts and do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

Barry,

 

My suggestion would echo what has been said: you need good brakes. That rear master operates 2 of your three brake calipers. It needs to be working as well as possible. I'd get the parts, disassemble and clean and then plan on a yearly flush. You'll likely never have to do it again. At least until you put on stainless steel lines!

 

As far as working on one piston at a time, I'll be a dissenter. I'd rather take all of them out, then you're not chasing grunge from one piston you are now cleaning back into one you have already cleaned. Pull them all, and you can know for sure that all the pistons are fully clean.

 

When it come to putting the pistons back in, you need to lube the pistons with either brake fluid, or if you get the rebuild kits, it should come with some lube that I used on the square seals to make thing go together much easier.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Paul