Rare issue

[Wrench]

This is the second time I've had this particular issue, and have not been able to find anything definitive. We were heading back from our trip Thursday and stopped for gas, everything was fine with the bike. After gassing up I hit the starter and it wouldn't even turn over. I had bright lights, turn sigs, everything seemed fine electrically except it would not turn the motor. Got some jumper cables hooked up, and it took a minute to get enough charge in it to start. Rode it on home, about 120 miles, and it's started fine ever since. Voltage checks are, 12.5 at battery posts, drops to 10.4 under starting load, then runs up to 13.5-13.7 at idle. It did this same thing back in the spring and I checked every wiring connection I could find and no problems again until Thursday. The battery is a 3 year old AGM. Any assistance is appreciated.

[bongobobny]

Have your battery load tested, if nothing else to rule it out...

[Wrench]

That's what I'm going to do, may be a loose plate in it. Hard to track down something that only happens every 4-5 months. Thanks!

[StarFan]

I would put my dollars on the battery.

Had the same thing happen to my 1998 Tour Classic and it was the battery. No issues after installing a new one.

[Mike G in SC]

my RSTD is starting to have a problem about once a week.

Hit the starter, and, it's kinda like it has a flat spot. Does a uuuuuuh. Hit it again and kicks over just fine. So,, not the battery on mine.

Then fine all week. (This is my daily commute bike, so I start it 4 times a day.)

 

I thought, lose connections first. Tightened a few places. But, every few days, it happens again. Is there such a thing as a bad spot on the starter? Or do I need to chase more connections?

Not worried about it. Cause I think if it fails,, I can probably rock it in gear and get it to go. (??)

 

Mike G.

[Brake Pad]

Dumb question is the Bike in nutral for the first gear.

[MikeWa]

If it is the battery or battery connection the lights will get dim or go out during cranking or attempted cranking. If it is a side stand or clutch switch they will not.

 

Mike

[eagleeye]

My bet is a bad battery for both of you guys. But the only way to know is to buy a new battery.

Good Luck.

[djh3]

Dont know about these starters in particular, but yes the armature can get "bad" spots. We use to take them apart, emory cloth them a little and maybe throw a set of brushes at it. GM starters use to run about $20 to do in the shop I worked at say 30yr ago. :shock3: WOW was it really that long ago???

[StarFan]

Not worried about it. Cause I think if it fails,, I can probably rock it in gear and get it to go. (??)

 

Mike G.

 

The Venture can actually be started by pushing it, put it in 2nd or 3rd gear and hold the clutch in, switch on. Release the clutch when you have the bike rolling and it should start. It actually does not need to much speed but 1st gear - forget it.

2nd as well as 3rd gear did work for me when I had a bad battery and could not get enough power to crank it. Also just recently had to do this when I accidentally left the switch/lights on my Venture. Put the bike in 2nd gear, had a guy push me and off I went. Didn´t take much Lesson learned - Don´t use the kill switch to turn off the bike - use the switch key - unless you are an extremely focused person I am obviously not

[etcswjoe]

If it's not the battery look at the kill switch and side stand switch.

[JerryK]

I surprised some one isn't saying ignition switch? Isn't it known for this symptom? Or one to consider......I just know I hate electrical problems!

[etcswjoe]

I surprised some one isn't saying ignition switch? Isn't it known for this symptom? Or one to consider......I just know I hate electrical problems!

 

 

I believe you may be right.

[plumberman]

I had the same issue with my bike turned out to be a bad 5 connector plug under faring , replaced it with a new plug , work's fine

[Seaking]

my RSTD is starting to have a problem about once a week.

Hit the starter, and, it's kinda like it has a flat spot. Does a uuuuuuh. Hit it again and kicks over just fine. So,, not the battery on mine.

Then fine all week. (This is my daily commute bike, so I start it 4 times a day.)

 

I thought, lose connections first. Tightened a few places. But, every few days, it happens again. Is there such a thing as a bad spot on the starter? Or do I need to chase more connections?

Not worried about it. Cause I think if it fails,, I can probably rock it in gear and get it to go. (??)

 

Mike G.

 

Well THIS sounds ever so familiar!! I just resolved this issue recently.. The start issue you described plagued my bike for a year or so.. feels like the engine is cranking up hard against a compression stroke and hangs there.. But will usually always start on the next try... In my case, there was such a draw on the system it would sometimes reset the radio station presets and / or reset the ODO as well.

 

Here's what I went through to fix it..

 

In July and August, the bike simply wouldn't start without a lot fuss and muss.. Turned out the Key Switch had suffered a lot of wear and tear and failed the resistance meter check. I installed a bypass switch to temporarily fix the key switch until one could be found (national back order sheesh) but the start issue would show up once in a while. Once replaced the bike started OK, but still every once in a while I would still get that 'hang start'.. hmm Later in the week the SCCR (side stand relay) failed, and once replaced the bike would start and yet again, once in a while that hang start you described would show its ugly head..

 

Then a week later, the failed to start completely, or make spark.. After a lot of testing and proding, it was discovered that the PICKUP COIL completely (and finally) failed.. geesus.. one thing after another! Resistance meter check showed an open circuit.. I can't remember exactly what the range is but it's somewhere between 180 and 230 Ohms.

 

After replacing the pickup coil, the bike now starts like it never had before.. Touch the started switch and wham the engine starts immidiately. Only started to have to use choke due to the colder nights up here now.. but went all August and earlier parts of Sept without having to use choke after an overnight shutdown. And most of all, no more hesistant starts as you described it. It also got rid of that weird little rumble at highway speeds at certain revs and speeds.

 

Once I replaced my pickup coil, I never once again exprienced that weird start issue. I had since been out on a long road trip (8,000 miles) where I would ride several 12 hour days and a couple of 36 hour runs, starting the bike in the heat, cold, wet and various conditions, and now in the cold (40'F mornings) and no more weird starts.

 

Betting dollars to donuts, I'm guessing your pickup coil is starting to show signs of failing. It took almost 2 years, maybe around 30,000 miles of riding before it finally died. But once replaced, wow, it's like a brand new bike and has never started this awesome since I bought this bike used in 2008.. bike now has 135,000 miles on it.

 

As it was explained to me, the pickup coil which is fixed inside the left generator cover, picks up signals to fire the spark plugs. If the pickup coil is weakened or doesn't have the correct impedence, these signals will get scrambled on start.. and you end up with that hang start.. or not pick it up at all once it dies.

 

After having changed all those parts, key switch, SCCR and even taking apart and cleaning out the starter thumb switch, the problem persisted until I changed the pickup coil.

 

BUT before going that route, check out the battery as well. If its 5 years or older, might as well replace it.. it might just be a weak battery causing the issue.. but if the problem shows up again, I'd be looking at the pickup coil.. Partsshark and such sites show a good price on them, and with a new gasket the job isn't that hard.. just a PITA to get the wiring through. I was fortunate enough to pick up an alternate coil with the same specs for a lot cheaper to fix mine. And she's still running super fine 10,000 miles after the fix.

 

Best of luck!

[djh3]

Seaking: When I think of the trials you went thru on your deal I just shake my head. Its was kind of "one of them thing" perfect storm deals. What caused what to go bad first? Was the switch being in a weakened condition the start? Who knows. I'm just glad you got it up and going. I enjoyed tossing ideas back and forth on it with you.

[Neil86]

If you have an onboard voltmeter its helpful to see whether you are getting

normal draw when hitting starter button....this can decide whether its a

starter issue or the interlock side preventing starter operation.

[Wrench]

I've got my issue narrowed down to a bad battery. Took it to be load tested, tester read it was too low to test, even though the bike is starting fine. Brought it home, charged it, load test now shows it's bad. Not that it matters I guess, but it's a Parts Unlimited AGM that was installed 3 years ago last Saturday. Thanks for all the help.

[Mike G in SC]

Well THIS sounds ever so familiar!! I just resolved this issue recently.. The start issue you described plagued my bike for a year or so.. feels like the engine is cranking up hard against a compression stroke and hangs there.. But will usually always start on the next try... In my case, there was such a draw on the system it would sometimes reset the radio station presets and / or reset the ODO as well.

 

Here's what I went through to fix it..

 

In July and August, the bike simply wouldn't start without a lot fuss and muss.. Turned out the Key Switch had suffered a lot of wear and tear and failed the resistance meter check. I installed a bypass switch to temporarily fix the key switch until one could be found (national back order sheesh) but the start issue would show up once in a while. Once replaced the bike started OK, but still every once in a while I would still get that 'hang start'.. hmm Later in the week the SCCR (side stand relay) failed, and once replaced the bike would start and yet again, once in a while that hang start you described would show its ugly head..

 

Then a week later, the failed to start completely, or make spark.. After a lot of testing and proding, it was discovered that the PICKUP COIL completely (and finally) failed.. geesus.. one thing after another! Resistance meter check showed an open circuit.. I can't remember exactly what the range is but it's somewhere between 180 and 230 Ohms.

 

After replacing the pickup coil, the bike now starts like it never had before.. Touch the started switch and wham the engine starts immidiately. Only started to have to use choke due to the colder nights up here now.. but went all August and earlier parts of Sept without having to use choke after an overnight shutdown. And most of all, no more hesistant starts as you described it. It also got rid of that weird little rumble at highway speeds at certain revs and speeds.

 

Once I replaced my pickup coil, I never once again exprienced that weird start issue. I had since been out on a long road trip (8,000 miles) where I would ride several 12 hour days and a couple of 36 hour runs, starting the bike in the heat, cold, wet and various conditions, and now in the cold (40'F mornings) and no more weird starts.

 

Betting dollars to donuts, I'm guessing your pickup coil is starting to show signs of failing. It took almost 2 years, maybe around 30,000 miles of riding before it finally died. But once replaced, wow, it's like a brand new bike and has never started this awesome since I bought this bike used in 2008.. bike now has 135,000 miles on it.

 

As it was explained to me, the pickup coil which is fixed inside the left generator cover, picks up signals to fire the spark plugs. If the pickup coil is weakened or doesn't have the correct impedence, these signals will get scrambled on start.. and you end up with that hang start.. or not pick it up at all once it dies.

 

After having changed all those parts, key switch, SCCR and even taking apart and cleaning out the starter thumb switch, the problem persisted until I changed the pickup coil.

 

BUT before going that route, check out the battery as well. If its 5 years or older, might as well replace it.. it might just be a weak battery causing the issue.. but if the problem shows up again, I'd be looking at the pickup coil.. Partsshark and such sites show a good price on them, and with a new gasket the job isn't that hard.. just a PITA to get the wiring through. I was fortunate enough to pick up an alternate coil with the same specs for a lot cheaper to fix mine. And she's still running super fine 10,000 miles after the fix.

 

Best of luck!

 

Seaking, Hey, I just happened back to this thread. Glad I did.

I did have the battery tested yesterday, and they said it is fine, got it's full cranking amps.

So, you may have my answer on the pickup coil. I will look into that.

 

HEY THANKS!!!

[djh3]

Seaking: WOW glad to hear you finally got that sorted out. You did leave the by-pass relay installed after the new switch showed up right? I was amazed when we talked about your crummy run of luck of one thing after another going bad.