wont rev

[rbig1]

well I'll start at the beginning. was riding the bike harder than I ever had. stopped at intersection fast. wouldn't rev had to twist throttle four times. I drove the rest of day no problems. except that idle had dropped off big time. fueled up that night. next day rode bike back home 133miles. when you would slow down could hardly get going again. I just made it home. died and restarted would not rev at all. missing had to have choke to idle. fuel pump was hammering. pulled line off pump very little fuel would pump. so I changed fuel cock was broken now I can shut off fuel. filter was in bad shape replaced. installed different pump. have fuel now. still wont rev. the air filter looked terrible changed. sprayed around carbs with engine running nothing changed. removed yics chambers and plugged with clevis pins in hoses. sprayed every thing while running no change. any ideas don't want to pull carbs without figuring out what is causing the problem. would diaphragms cause this big of a problem.

[Neil86]

During any of these poor running incidents has the tach dropped to zero (with engine still running)and acted erratic?

 

Have you tested the voltage on the ignition fuse...on the load side red/white wire....maybe you have low voltage to ignition system due to a poor connection...ie fuse clips etc.

Is the battery voltage normal while running?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Neil86

[Marcarl]

Sounds to me that it's fuel related. Try some Sea-foam first, heavy dose, a whole can in less than 1\2 tank. Run that through, and then change the plugs,,,, report back.

Could also be the little vacuum hose on the left side come off the intake or is cracked.

[rbig1]

well did the seafoam. haven't changed the plugs but will. wiring has mostly been updated starter wires. fuse boxes. main wiring and fuse assy. actually one can seafoam to two gal fuel. drained two carbs screws on other two are majorly stripped, id say never to be again. little particles 3to 4 grains max. igntec installed. tac never dropped out.

[rbig1]

before I change plugs going to open air box and see if slides are moving. maybe give it some spray cleaner. might get hair cut. lol wont rev up so

[rbig1]

well opened air cleaner shot a whole can of cleaner through carbs. after playing with it worked correct... tried to sync carbs. right side was way higher than left finely got them close. then problem started all over. so I guess if I want to ride will have to rebuild them want to put in new diaphrams and plungers. have a new bench in box been there for 5 years will have to put together. as no place to tear them down. don't know what I will do with bench when done. I know this isn't going to go well.

[cowpuc]

Rbig, start small..

Answer a couple of the questions asked and lets see if we can help here..

Lets start with the tach question, when the bike acts up does the tach go wacky?

Have you checked the fuel coming from the fuel pump for debris? If you have a rusty fuel tank small particles will go past the filter and contaminate your carbs.. Run some fuel into a clean bowl and look for debris.

Assuming from your last post that this is not the case proceed to: YES - torn diaphrams will cause major loss of power because no fuel can get thru the main jets if the slides are not opening.. Another related issue is that the slides that are operated by those diaphrams can cause the same symptoms if they are getting stuck in the carb passage they are suppose to be sliding in..

Before going to all the hassle of removing the carbs and rebuilding them, pull the covers off the diaphrams, remove the diaphram/slide assemblies.. You really dont need a work bench to do this.. When you remove the covers and the slide springs - put your finger inside the slide and move it in and out of the slide chamber and see how much resistance there is in slide movement, they should move effortlessly.. If any of the slides are sticky you have to clean the slide and the surface it slides on to the point that it no longer has any resistance to movement..

If the diaphrams are torn, the best fix is to replace them..

You mentioned getting small particles of debris from the carbs that you were able to get the drains loose on.. Even tiny particles can cause major problems in carburation.. Here is a trick that I have used many many times for cleaning carbs without removing them.. It works very well BUT you HAVE to pay attention and concentrate when doing this.. Also, this is futile if you have a rusty fuel tank feeding those carbs>

1st you have to get the other drain plugs loose.. If the heads of the drain plugs are not stripped out, use the proper screw driver head in a hand impact - twist the impact to the left and smack it lightly but sharply with a light weight hammer (12 oz should do it - careful going larger as it is possible to break the casting of the bowl). If the heads are destroyed already, take a small sharp prick punch and hammer, make a punch mark in the head of the screw and then tap at an angle to the left (counterclockwise) to break the screw loose..

After getting your carbs so they will all drain, activate the fuel pump by turning the key on and off.. Make sure your getting a good flow of fuel from each of the carb drains. If not, tap on the carb that is getting no fuel and see if you can get the fuel flowing again (may have stuck float).. If you know you are getting fuel to each carb here is something I have done successfully when looking at non running bikes with the prospect of purchasing for resale, done it many times and it works great:

 

Go to an Ag store and pick up a couple syringes - I use the medium size ones that will hold at least a bowl full of carb fluid.. Fill a syringe with White Vinegar (I use ChemClean too for carbs that I KNOW have been setting for a long time and have done so very successfully BUT - if you use it, you have to be VERY careful not to let it set in the carbs for more than an hour or you WILL end up pulling down the carb bank and probably replacing some parts that the ChemCLean ate. White Vinegar is no where near as hard to work with).

Now, with the slides removed from the carbs, take a flashlight and look inside the slide orfice and in the bottom you will see the spot where the jet needle attached to the slide enters into the mainjet.. With the drain open on the bowl of a carb, attach the syringe filled with Vinegar and push the vinegar into the bowl of the carb - while you do this watch in the slide orfice - push the fluid from the syringe into the bowl until the vinager starts flowing from the mainjet (dont fill the intake trac with vinegar), than close the drain plug. Do all four carbs.

With Vinager, it will need to set at least 48 hours. With Chemclean, 1 hour MAX..

I like to move the rinse in the bowl around while its soaking but its NOT necessary - just helps break loose debris.. To do this I attach a syringe to the drain plug after the carb has been soaking for a while. Open the drain plug and pump the syringe up and down to agitate the wash.. When done agitating its a good idea to recheck the fluid level again making sure your getting a full fill..

Another something that I have tried when doing this "on bike carb cleaning" has been using an engraver to cause viberations within the carb.. This also helps A LOT especially when using Vinegar, Chemclean seems to be a little thicker of a substance and doesnt seem to react as much to viberations as Vinegar. If you choose to attempt this, use a small piece of hardwood to viberate against so you dont damage the aluminum..

I have done some pretty extensive testing of different products thru the years in carb cleaning, both on the bench and in the setting as described.. I can tell you that over the counter "in tank" mixes doent fair as well as ChemClean or Vinegar in my experience.. I set up a test one time with SeaFoam, STP Injector Cleaner, Vinegar and ChemClean and was amazed at what I found.

Using 4 carbs off an old Kawasaki 650 so the carbs were comparably a disastor (they were BAD), the ChemClean came in first place - within an hour it was down to aluminum and brass. Vinegar came in second place - took 24 hours but the parts were really cleaning up.. The other two products, in tank mix products did NOTHING - even after soaking for 4 days - nothing (I believe these products are meant to be used on a regular basis in order to be effective)..

After the cleaning time is over, reattach the syringe, pull the fluid from the bowls until you get air. squirt the dirty stuff into a drain pan, you can either squirt the bowls full again to rinse em by sticking the plastic squirter attachement of a aresol can of carb cleaner up into the drain hose or you can use Seafoam or Injector cleaner as a final rinse to remove the ChemClean or Vinegar.. I like to make sure I get at least 2 good bowlfuls of cleaner in the carbs to make sure I am getting all the cleaner (especially ChemClean) removed from the interior of the carbs.. Now Close the drains, turn the key on and off to fill the carbs with the fuel pump. when the pump stops reacting to the key (no longer calling for fuel). Drain each bowl into your syringe and pay attention to the amount of fuel your getting from the carbs.. Doing this will tell you whether or not your floats are set properly and functioning as they should..

I know this all sounds like a LOT of work but it really is simple and can be done fairly quickly,, if nothing else, can result in telling you what exactly is wrong with your bike and whether you really need to go thru a full carb rebuild..

Zip her up and warm her up, hook up those gauges and sync her down and go riding!! Rooting for ya Rbig!!

Puc

Edited August 19, 2014 by cowpuc

[billmac]

Do as puc says and he'll get you going. remember first to check the tank for rust if you don't the tank will just fill the carbs with junk wasting your work.

[Neil86]

You mention you are running Ignitech.....where is the vacuum hose hooked up to on your bike.

 

Even though most of the wiring is updated I would still verify the voltage is good on the ignition circuit.

Another member went through major grief and found a bad crimp on his new fusebox wiring.

[rbig1]

well from the top. tac question, it don't go wacky. no wacky

check fuel from pump. ran fuel in glass jar, clean fuel

tank full rust. drained tank replaced cock. put fuel in old truck. clean fuel

igntec vac tube hooked to sync tube at left rear carb.

wire testing. never tested with a inline fuse to ground

but used a meter at a few locations. looks good. could be phantom voltage

{meter cant put load on wire} but read same with key on.

going to try to get drain screws loose on carbs then will do other stuff.

 

have a few questions puc

on the syringes needle needed.

 

on the carbs is that screw replaceable there are two killed no center at all.

 

will go with white vinegar

and thank you for replying

[Condor]

On the '83 the vacuum advance hose to the booster comes off another bib before the butterfly on #2. Could it have become disconnected and that's why your sync was so way off....??? The '83 is the only one that runs this way.... JAWAS....??

[rbig1]

first thing I checked. was hoses. then sprayed every thing while running no difference in idle.

[cowpuc]

e

well from the top. tac question, it don't go wacky. no wacky

check fuel from pump. ran fuel in glass jar, clean fuel

tank full rust. drained tank replaced cock. put fuel in old truck. clean fuel

igntec vac tube hooked to sync tube at left rear carb.

wire testing. never tested with a inline fuse to ground

but used a meter at a few locations. looks good. could be phantom voltage

{meter cant put load on wire} but read same with key on.

going to try to get drain screws loose on carbs then will do other stuff.

 

have a few questions puc

on the syringes needle needed.

 

on the carbs is that screw replaceable there are two killed no center at all.

 

will go with white vinegar

and thank you for replying

 

If your tank is rusted up internally just replacing the fuel in it will not help. The tank either has to be replaced or lined. If you remove your seat, you will see a cover on the tank that holds the float gauge for your fuel gauge.. Remove that cover and lift the float gauge out and than you can actually see how bad the tank is internally.. I have tried MANY methods for salvaging rusted tanks and FINALLY found a product that works very well.. Let me know if you are going that route and I will gladly give you details..

The type of syringes really dont matter as long as you can get a good seal into the drain lines.. I use the type that have a beveled nose on them (no needle attachment), if you go to an Ag store where they sell animal care products they should have a variety of syringes.. You may have to use a little imagination in adapting them to the drain hoses depending on the syringes you can find - most hardware stores have cabinets of little tubing connectors to go from one size hose to another.. You may end up with having to use a piece of 1/4 inch gas line off the syringe and then reduce it down with a little plastic reducer that fits into the drain line..

Not sure if those drain screws are available new from Yamaha.. If it were mine I would probably just take prick punch as I mentioned, get em loose and remove them. After getting them out, look at the remaining surface of the screws and see if there is enough material left to cut a flat head screw driver slot in them with my dremel and thin cut off wheel..

 

On the '83 the vacuum advance hose to the booster comes off another bib before the butterfly on #2. Could it have become disconnected and that's why your sync was so way off....??? The '83 is the only one that runs this way.... JAWAS....??

h

 

Another strange word this "JAWAS",,, please enlighten me brother Jack:stirthepot:

[Prairiehammer]

 

Another strange word this "JAWAS",,, please enlighten me brother Jack:stirthepot:

 

J.A.W.A.S.= Just A Wild Ass Supposition?

Most peeps would say JAWAG, but Jack, being from the Left Coast, well...

[Neil86]

Yes if he runs the Ignitech on an 83 he has to use the synch port as a vacuum signal.

 

With the engine running the ignition circuit is under load so the voltage should be accurate then.

[cowpuc]

J.A.W.A.S.= Just A Wild Ass Supposition?

Most peeps would say JAWAG, but Jack, being from the Left Coast, well...

 

So,, I am guessing that the "G" on the end stands for Geezer there Prairie?? I didnt know that those west coasters, like Jack, preferred to be called a "Supposition" but I know that us older mid westerners are known as Geezers so JAWAG does make sense to me..

[Condor]

So,, I am guessing that the "G" on the end stands for Geezer there Prairie?? I didnt know that those west coasters, like Jack, preferred to be called a "Supposition" but I know that us older mid westerners are known as Geezers so JAWAG does make sense to me..

 

S = STAB....... Close but no SeeGar....

[cowpuc]

S = STAB....... Close but no SeeGar....

 

I wondered,, I really wondered if you would find that Jack:rotf:,,,, of course deep down in my heart I KNEW ya would:bighug:

Hey,, did you see that pic that Kev posted of the "guy" who wanted to ride his bike?? If so, did that "guy" look familiar to you?

[Condor]

Hey,, did you see that pic that Kev posted of the "guy" who wanted to ride his bike?? If so, did that "guy" look familiar to you?

 

Nope!! But he did look familiar.....

 

[rbig1]

well removed carbs today. has any one said inside pull cable stinks. got me trusty mason jar and drained each carb aprox 1oz fuel except #3 a bought 1/3 less. lots of floaters in fuel, number 3 had grains real fine. also #3 small jet on top was covered with black goo. this was probably due to air box clamp in wrong spot. may have been main cause. just guessing. I never caught it. the slide in 3 was a little sticky also. all 4 of the mixture screws are stuck tight. pulled all slides the springs are different length diaphragm. will try to post pics. cant work on it any more this week.

[rbig1]

well did it work pics

[rbig1]

wow I posted pic took a hour

[rbig1]

who is kev

[rbig1]

well I got all the drain screws out. plus two fuel screws flipped carbs over filled cavity with pen- fluid and royal purple. will try to get them out tomorrow or next day. I have to go get the syringes tomorrow and vinegar. drain hoses will be changed also keep falling off. then I will be able to check float level you the man! puc there are two screws broke off of float bowl top side. think I better fix that don't you. i ended up using dremiel tool on two of the heads of drain screws. tried to warm them with iron but it didn't work anymore to much trunk time I guess

[rbig1]

gasket behind pilot jets was blown on number one carb. at the second hole down. and the pilot jet was pluged on number4 carb I got the two broken screws drilled and retapped adjusted one float it was higher than others. every thing was clean but that jet. still cant get two pilot adjustment screws loose may have messed up head not sure. any tricks to get them out