My 83 engine swap with 2nd gen trans

[Venturous Randy]

Well, I am pretty much done with the engine swap on my 83. It took a lot longer than I expected and I spent many days not even messing with it. So far, I am reasonably happy with the results

About five years ago I bought an 85 Royale and a spare 83 engine came with it that supposedly had about 30,000 miles on it. There was a problem with the engine that I did not realize as it had one cylinder that had some rust in it. About three years ago I put a 2nd gen transmission in the engine. Once I figured out some of the unique differences between the two transmissions, I got it working ok in the 83 engine.

A while back I put a V-max final drive in my bike and enjoyed it very much. The downside was at speeds over 65, the bike was revving more than I liked and I did not enjoy running at interstate speeds for very long.

With the setup I have now, it is the same as putting a V-max final drive in a 2nd gen and I can see why so many like that set up. 1st gear is about the same on a 1st and 2nd gen and with the V-Max final drive, it is noticeably lower geared. A comparison of my setup and a stock 1st gen is 1st gear is about 10% lower, 2nd is about 5% lower and 3rd and 4th are the same and 5th is about 5% higher. To me, this is the perfect ratios for both starting out and the slightly higher 5th gear makes highway travel more pleasant.

Another change I made was installing a 4 brush 2nd gen Venture starter. It cranks up really fast now. I recommend this for all 1st gens. I also added the solid motor mounts (thanks SGN) and this allowed me to remove the bar that runs beside the engine as I have the bikini side panels and it opens up the engine even more.

As I said, I am reasonably happy as there are some issues I am still messing with. This engine, so far, is not as strong as the old one with 167,000 miles on it. With the V-Max final drive, it was almost scary in 1st gear. I would run it up to about 3,000 rpm's and nail it and it got very light in the front end. It also easily came off the ground shifting hard into 2nd gear. It would pull real hard up through about 5,000 rpm's and then it was like kicking in the four barrel in on my 240Z with the Chevy engine. This engine pulls somewhat similar, but so far it is a little lacking in that part over 5,000 rpm's that I liked so much.

Another concern is I believe I have more noticeable whine in the 2,500 to 3,000 rpm range in 4th and 5th gear. But, the good thing is at 70 to 75 mph, the engine/trans is really quiet. I am running about 3,800 rpm's in 5th at about 75 mph and it is a lot more comfortable than in 5th with the stock trans and the V-Max final drive where I was running over 4,000 rpm's running 65 mph.

Anyway, I thought I would give an update and I really do think the 2nd gen trans with the V-Max rear is a great setup for a 1st gen. I am going to see if I can find a good 1300 engine and use the other 2nd gen trans that I have in it. I think with the extra torque of that engine that it would be even better.

RandyA

Edited August 8, 2014 by Venturous Randy

[cowpuc]

AWESOME report Randy - THANK YOU!! Looking at my crystal ball here,,, its kinda shadowy but I think I see a little ol man and a pretty sharp young lady riding a bike set up like you are describing.. I REALLY agree with your thoughts on that 10 percent drop in 1st being a BALL in the woods and fitting our application really well !! We shall see!!

THANK YOU my friend for doing all this testing and reporting of your findings!! Its stuff like that that makes VR a wonderful family to be part of!!

Great job Randy, you da man!!

Puc

[camos]

By 2nd gen transmission do you mean installed the 2nd gen gears into the 1st gen case or do you mean you bolted a 2nd gen transmission case with gears onto the 1st gen engine?

[Venturous Randy]

By 2nd gen transmission do you mean installed the 2nd gen gears into the 1st gen case or do you mean you bolted a 2nd gen transmission case with gears onto the 1st gen engine?

 

I installed the 2nd gen gear set with forks and tumbler into an 83 engine. Both 1st and 2nd gens have internal transmissions in the engine.

RandyA

[camos]

I got re-interested in the possibilities of a hybrid by a recent thread on V-Max forward controls for a 1st gen. I don't think they will work so that left the possibility of swapping cases. Just a long shot fantasy query.

 

Thanks. When I have some time to actually attempt this modification I'll probably bring it up again in its own thread.

[Neil86]

Randy...

interesting project!

 

Did the replacement engine go in with its own carbs or you put the bikes

existing carbs on it?

[Venturous Randy]

Randy...

interesting project!

 

Did the replacement engine go in with its own carbs or you put the bikes

existing carbs on it?

 

I used the same carbs that had been on the bike and since the bike was running very good, I decided that I would not tear them down and do a cleaning. But, since I had a drain tube that was coming loose, I decided to change the tubes and that required me to turn the carbs upside down. Well, that must of shook some crap loose because when I did my first test rides, the bike ran like it had a couple of blocked pilot jets.

I put a whole can of Seafoam with about a half tank of gas and rode it some and let it sit over night, but with a ride the next day, that did not seem to help. After looking at the diagram of the carb, I found that one of the jets in the top of the carb is ported along with the pilot jet. I drained the carbs(the first time ever) and using a new can of carb cleaner with the little plastic tube on it and the carb drain still being open, I sprayed through the top jet. This apparently opened up the pilot jet because it immediately started running better.

After so many beautiful days of sunshine and cool temps, now that I have the bike running good, we are going to have several days of heavy rain, but, we really do need it. I just hope we have a dry time at Asheville.

RandyA

Edited August 8, 2014 by Venturous Randy

[Yammer Dan]

So far I have "Brown Sugar". A set of solid mounts. A 4-brush starter. A V-Max rear. Plans with carbs to tickle a couple more ponies out of there. Need to grab that tranny I been watching. As strong as "Brown Sugar" already is I may scare myself.....

Ashville on a 2nd Gen..... Get to ride with "Warrior". I can still take ya Mark.

[Venturous Randy]

So far I have "Brown Sugar". A set of solid mounts. A 4-brush starter. A V-Max rear. Plans with carbs to tickle a couple more ponies out of there. Need to grab that tranny I been watching. As strong as "Brown Sugar" already is I may scare myself.....

Ashville on a 2nd Gen..... Get to ride with "Warrior". I can still take ya Mark.

 

It sounds like you are well on your way of putting together the things that make a 1st gen a better hot rod and a good highway bike. I was not sure about the solid motor mounts as I was getting some vibration when I first rode the bike with the pilot jet problems, but after getting it running smooth, I have not noticed that vibration.

I think all of us will be riding with Mark in our heart. At the last Asheville rally two years ago, I was going thru some major issues and Mark stepped forward and did a great job of being there and welcoming everyone and was great entertainment himself. Our "Warrior" will definitely be missed this year.

RandyA

[Yammer Dan]

Blast It!! Plans went belly up!! You guys have a great time. I'm gonna miss this one....

[videoarizona]

Wish I had your ambition and courage to swap out the transmission gears. Sounds like the perfect combination to making a 1st gen really sing!

 

Thanks for the writeup!