Rear tire , Final Drive and Drive Shaft

[dave_wells]

Rear tire , Final Drive and Drive Shaft

 

Had a tire mounted today

 

While the tire was off I decided to pull the rear Diff and add some grease to the drive shaft ends ,Well The entire shaft came out attached to the diff .

The forward end needed grease

After about an hour I gave up trying to get the other end out of the Diff

Anything I found on how to do it showed it assembled and then disassembled.

Nothing on how to disassemble

 

What is the trick to getting it apart ? and does it need to be greased or is is getting lubed with the gear oil in the rear.

[djh3]

Best I can tell it should just pull out of the rearend housing. I cant see any snap rings or anything. I just had one apart, but I dont remember taking that end of the driveshaft out.

[Seaking]

As best as I can tell, the drive shaft stays attached to the rear diff by means of a circlip inside the housing which itself it attached to the rear diff by 4 acorn nuts (the same ones mentioned in a technical bulletin for rear diff / shaft alignment). There is a spring inside all this that allows the drive shaft to travel back and forth inside that. The end of the drive shaft inside that housing is not wet lubricated by the rear diff as there are seals between rear end of the shaft and the internal parts of the rear differential.

 

In order to grease the rear end of the shaft, it would appear that you would need to undo those four acorn nuts to access that end of the shaft.

[rowdy7]

The rear diff just pulls off the drive shaft. I had to put my shaft in a vise and pull the diff off. There is a spring behind it so don't lose it.

 

See the last sentence in the attached bulletin regarding the rear spline lubrication.

 

Jim

[Prairiehammer]

... and does it need to be greased or is is getting lubed with the gear oil in the rear.

 

The rear driveshaft spline is lubricated by the final drive oil. The early First Generation Ventures (1983-1985) are the only models requiring periodic application (by hand) of grease to the rear driveshaft spline.

[CaptainJoe]

Dave it will pull apart.

Might not be getting enough lubrication.

Personally grease both ends of the driveline.

Just stick the universal end of drive shaft in vice and pull. May have to strike final drive with rubber mallot to persuade it off...

[djh3]

I tried pretty hard for more than a few minutes to separate the back side of shaft from the diff. I figured it was a push in retained by spring circlip. Never got any movement I could tell so I left it alone at that time. It sure looks like it should come out though.

 

Look here. Its an article about the V-max swap but 7 pic down tells about the drive shaft. Thanks Freebird.

http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1406%20%28Small%29.jpg

You then need to pull the drive shaft out of the rear end. There is nothing it in except for an 0-Ring so you have to pull on it fairly hard but it will come out.

[MikeWa]

It comes apart as djh3 shows. Pull it or tap it. It should come out.

 

When putting things back together there is a hole near the front of the shaft housing that you can use to help align the u-joint. Remove the rubber plug and use your finger.

 

During reassembly don't tighten the four bolts on the front of the differential right away. With the wheel off install the axle while adjusting, rocking the differently to eliminate binding. Once everything is aligned and the axle moves freely between the differential and swing arm tighten the four bolts.

 

Now slide the axle out and reinstall the wheel.

 

Mike

[dave_wells]

I will try it again

I will wait till the season is over so I can take a little more time with it

 

 

 

Thank you...

[Beau-Kat]

I tried pretty hard for more than a few minutes to separate the back side of shaft from the diff. I figured it was a push in retained by spring circlip. Never got any movement I could tell so I left it alone at that time. It sure looks like it should come out though.

 

Look here. Its an article about the V-max swap but 7 pic down tells about the drive shaft. Thanks Freebird.

http://www.venturerider.org/vmaxrear/100_1406%20%28Small%29.jpg

 

When going back together with the shaft, be careful not to damage the seal in the photo. It's easier than you may think to damage. Then you'll have diff fluid leaking at the 4-bolt/acorn nut joint and slinging on your tire.

I know. After installing a new rear tire and servicing the shaft and diff, I was experiencing the "creaking diff". Had to re-align the 4 bolt/acorn nut joint, with the axle inserted but loose, and then tight the four acorn nuts and then the axle. Anyway, creaking went away, but I must have nicked my driveshaft seal and now need to replace it.

[CaptainJoe]

Dave,

Make sure you change your final drive oil.

 

I do it every time I put a new back tire on.

 

Also, if you grease both ends it will make it easier to pull apart.

[MiCarl]

Your seal is a bit different than the one in the V-Max photo you have. You're unlikely to get it apart without ruining the seal.

 

As previously stated, those splines are lubed by the final drive oil. I'd leave that end alone.

[Seaking]

Unless someone is refering to something entirely different as to the OP's wanting to grease the end of the drive shaft that fits into the rear differential, here's a photo of my 2006 RSV final drive (aka rear diff, pumpkin etc). It is not lubricated by the hypoid oil in the rear diff. It is lubricated with grease on the splines, same as the other end. It is accessed by removing the 4 acorn nuts to pull the cup end housing. It may be difficult to pull apart but that's usually the old grease hanging on tight. When I did the VMax rear diff mod, mine was a little difficult to pull apart but it did come out without losing any of that lubricating oil.. (?)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

[Ace]

Unless someone is refering to something entirely different as to the OP's wanting to grease the end of the drive shaft that fits into the rear differential, here's a photo of my 2006 RSV final drive (aka rear diff, pumpkin etc). It is not lubricated by the hypoid oil in the rear diff. It is lubricated with grease on the splines, same as the other end. It is accessed by removing the 4 acorn nuts to pull the cup end housing. It may be difficult to pull apart but that's usually the old grease hanging on tight. When I did the VMax rear diff mod, mine was a little difficult to pull apart but it did come out without losing any of that lubricating oil.. (?)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Your driveshaft splines at the final drive end should be lubricated by the gear oil. The gear coupling (where the driveshaft slips into) has a hole to allow gear oil into there. I have had my 06 apart, my 2000 apart as well as many others and they all have the oil hole on the 2nd gen. Maybe grease is blocking the hole..

[MikeWa]

According to the service manual the gears at both ends of the drive shaft are lubricated by greasing.

 

Mike

 

[ATTACH]86182[/ATTACH]

[Beau-Kat]

According to the service manual the gears at both ends of the drive shaft are lubricated by greasing.

 

Mike

 

[ATTACH]86182[/ATTACH]

 

Maybe this photo of my 1998 VMax diff will shed some light here.

 

See the two oiling holes, one on either side of the pinion nut, that allow diff fluid to lubricate the driveshaft rear spline area.

 

The seal at the rear of the driveshaft keeps that fluid from going past the spline area and leaking out at the gasket-free 4-bolt connection.

 

On a side note, our VStar 650 was a manually greased type of spline area service. Many, including ours, failed and stripped the pinion spline teeth,requiring installation of a new diff unit. I know VStar 1100s also use the holes for lubing that are just like as shown in the photo.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Beau-Kat

[Beau-Kat]

Unless someone is refering to something entirely different as to the OP's wanting to grease the end of the drive shaft that fits into the rear differential, here's a photo of my 2006 RSV final drive (aka rear diff, pumpkin etc). It is not lubricated by the hypoid oil in the rear diff. It is lubricated with grease on the splines, same as the other end. It is accessed by removing the 4 acorn nuts to pull the cup end housing. It may be difficult to pull apart but that's usually the old grease hanging on tight. When I did the VMax rear diff mod, mine was a little difficult to pull apart but it did come out without losing any of that lubricating oil.. (?)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Seaking,

Hard to tell, but I think that if you look closely, you can maybe see one of the diff fluid lubrication holes at 11 O'clock in the photo in your post.

[Beau-Kat]

Here's a post from the Venturers forum:

 

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/?action=article&cat_id=001006&id=383

 

Good information, but the author really doesn't say what model Yamaha Venture/Royale/RS/RSTD this came from.

I can't see any lubricating holes in these photos. So maybe, something is different from model to model.

The diff doesn't have the speedo sensor hole, so it must not be from a 2nd gen Venture or the later model RSTDs.

 

So, I may be only half right in some of my previous posts about this subject. At least I know what I have in my bikes.

 

Questions always lead me to research and education. So it was worth the discussion for me.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Beau-Kat

[Jimbob66]

Your seal is a bit different than the one in the V-Max photo you have. You're unlikely to get it apart without ruining the seal.

 

As previously stated, those splines are lubed by the final drive oil. I'd leave that end alone.

 

 

If you do pull the shaft out, buy a seal. Don't even think of using the old one.

You might get lucky, but I have been unlucky twice so far.

 

Also, my 2007 RSV has oil holes for the splines. I clean them with wire each time I destroy the seal .. errr replace the tire

[MikeWa]

Maybe this photo of my 1998 VMax diff will shed some light here.

 

See the two oiling holes, one on either side of the pinion nut, that allow diff fluid to lubricate the drive shaft rear spline area.

 

The seal at the rear of the drive shaft keeps that fluid from going past the spline area and leaking out at the gasket-free 4-bolt connection.

 

On a side note, our VStar 650 was a manually greased type of spline area service. Many, including ours, failed and stripped the pinion spline teeth,requiring installation of a new diff unit. I know VStar 1100s also use the holes for lubing that are just like as shown in the photo.

 

 

Since I have an 08 differential in a box in my shed I decided to go out and have a look. After much scrounging around I finally found it. A careful inspect does indeed reveal the holes and the unit looks as though either the gears were lubricated by the differential fluid or the pinion seal has been leaking.

 

Mike

[wizard]

I have a 06 Venture with close to 100,000 miles and I have always greased both ends of the shaft. The 1st time I pulled it apart there was very little grease on the spline, and no fluid at all in the housing. If it was being lubed by the fluid, it seems to me that there would have been at least a little bit pouring out when I pulled it. I grease the splines every time I replace the tire, and I'm running a car tire. The splines look like new to me.

[MikeWa]

I have a 06 Venture with close to 100,000 miles and I have always greased both ends of the shaft. The 1st time I pulled it apart there was very little grease on the spline, and no fluid at all in the housing. If it was being lubed by the fluid, it seems to me that there would have been at least a little bit pouring out when I pulled it. I grease the splines every time I replace the tire, and I'm running a car tire. The splines look like new to me.

 

The Yamaha service manual is so crappy. Everything I read tells me the shaft is greased at both ends. The seal on the shaft is for protection of the teeth and that the open part of the seal is facing the center of the shaft. I get this from reading both the Yamaha service manual and Clymer's. I believe the holes that are present are to relieve pressure not lubricate. Generally for oil lubrication there will be a return hole at 6 o'clock on the outer edge. But again the manuals are so crappy I could be wrong. The next time I have a shaft out I will look much more closely.

 

Mike

[Seaking]

If the two little holes were for lubrication by the final gear oil, and NOT greased, would the cap housing then not be filled with oil upon removal? Would the lubrication oil then not contaminate the lubricating grease? Would the lubricating oil then not leak out of the cap housing since there is no seal or gasket on that part (the part held on by the 4 acorn nuts).

 

Regardless, the front and rear splines are lubricated by grease, the rear diff lubricated by oil and never shall the two intertwine.

[MikeWa]

Looking at the parts fiche I believe Seaking is right. The pinion seal is located behind the coupler. The shaft is lubricated by greasing. Some oil could penetrate into the area if the splines on the inside of the coupler were not sealed (touch of silicone) when it was installed on the pinion. Otherwise there is separation.

 

Mike

[MiCarl]

The pinion seal on the final drive is between the side of the splined coupler the bearing retainer. The coupler has two holes in the back that allow gear oil to splash in for lubrication. The seal around the drive shaft (which is holding it into your coupler) keeps the oil from leaking out the front.

 

The diagram posted refers to initial assembly, not routine maintenance. If you look at the cam installation section you'll see it call for moly lube on the cams, but you don't lube them unless they've been disassembled.

 

It won't do any harm to lube it, but as recommended you should replace the seal if you tear it apart.

Edited August 5, 2014 by MiCarl