Good Mechanic but need help with this one.

[srknova74]

One thing I haven't done is ohmout or test any of the original large guage wire. Like the main ground, battery to solenoid, and solenoid to starter. I was thinking of doing that just because the originals are 30 years old. Although,I think it's unlikely causing the current problem.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Repair/replace starter motor.

 

 

To verify, try 'bump' starting it in 4th or 5th gear, with some help if need be, when it wont start with the button.

 

You said you rebuilt the starter...

 

Have you rebuilt hundreds? Thousands? or....one?

 

It may be something simple in the starter but try bump starting it to verify.

 

 

 

[srknova74]

Repair/replace starter motor.

 

 

To verify, try 'bump' starting it in 4th or 5th gear, with some help if need be, when it wont start with the button.

 

You said you rebuilt the starter...

 

Have you rebuilt hundreds? Thousands? or....one?

 

It may be something simple in the starter but try bump starting it to verify.

 

 

 

 

Rebuilt probably 20-30. Starter is good. Again, works directly and when solenoid is jumped. 100% sure starter is functioning correctly.

[srknova74]

Rebuilt probably 20-30. Starter is good. Again, works directly and when solenoid is jumped. 100% sure starter is functioning correctly.

 

PS, won't bump start with no fuel supply.

[Flyinfool]

Rebuilt probably 20-30. Starter is good. Again, works directly and when solenoid is jumped. 100% sure starter is functioning correctly.

 

When you say you are jumping the solenoid, what exactly are you jumping from and to?

 

Do you still have the original glass fuses?

[srknova74]

When you say you are jumping the solenoid, what exactly are you jumping from and to?

 

One solenoid post to the other solenoid post. Starter works with ground to frame and 12volts to starter post.

[srknova74]

When you say you are jumping the solenoid, what exactly are you jumping from and to?

 

Do you still have the original glass fuses?

 

No glass fuses. Replaces with the box style from Buckeye Performance, only mine came from local NAPA.

[Flyinfool]

I think you just saved a lot of testing...

 

On the solenoid there are the 2 big terminals, one goes to the battery and the other goes to the starter. Since you said that when you jump those 2 the starter cranks, does it start or just crank?

 

There should also be 2 smaller wires going to the solenoid a red/white and a blue/white.

With the key turned on check to see if there is 12V on both of those small wires. (Meter negative to battery negative)

If there is 12V on both of those wires then connect a jumper from the blue/white to battery negative. This should make the engine crank so be ready for that.

Did it crank?

Did it start?

[srknova74]

I think you just saved a lot of testing...

 

On the solenoid there are the 2 big terminals, one goes to the battery and the other goes to the starter. Since you said that when you jump those 2 the starter cranks, does it start or just crank?

 

There should also be 2 smaller wires going to the solenoid a red/white and a blue/white.

With the key turned on check to see if there is 12V on both of those small wires. (Meter negative to battery negative)

If there is 12V on both of those wires then connect a jumper from the blue/white to battery negative. This should make the engine crank so be ready for that.

Did it crank?

Did it start?

 

No start, just crank. Remember, no fuel pump kicking in. I will check the solenoid wires as soon as I'm able for voltage. I can't get to it until at least tomorrow night. Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for your time.

[Neil86]

Fuel pump, cranking circuit, ignition and now fan...all on the ignition fuse.

 

Quote:

 

Even though you redid fuse box....with key on, verify you have battery voltage on the wire on the load side of the Ignition fuse.?

 

You replied it was 11.93 on load side of ignition.

 

 

I would recheck the voltage making sure the crimp on the load side wire (the red/white) is not bad.

Too many things are pointing to a bad power supply on this circuit.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Neil86

[srknova74]

Fuel pump, cranking circuit, ignition and now fan...all on the ignition fuse.

 

Quote:

 

Even though you redid fuse box....with key on, verify you have battery voltage on the wire on the load side of the Ignition fuse.?

 

You replied it was 11.93 on load side of ignition.

 

 

I would recheck the voltage making sure the crimp on the load side wire (the red/white) is not bad.

Too many things are pointing to a bad power supply on this circuit.

 

I will do that also. Thank you.

[srknova74]

Fuel pump, cranking circuit, ignition and now fan...all on the ignition fuse.

 

Quote:

 

Even though you redid fuse box....with key on, verify you have battery voltage on the wire on the load side of the Ignition fuse.?

 

You replied it was 11.93 on load side of ignition.

 

 

I would recheck the voltage making sure the crimp on the load side wire (the red/white) is not bad.

Too many things are pointing to a bad power supply on this circuit.

 

Your positive these are all on the same circuit? Cuz ya, that would make A LOT of sense.

[Neil86]

Just going by the wiring diagram....did you get the reading on the spade of the terminal?

[srknova74]

Just going by the wiring diagram....did you get the reading on the spade of the terminal?

I left it connected and got the reading at the connector.

[Neil86]

Well hopefully its just a bad crimp.

[srknova74]

Well hopefully its just a bad crimp.

 

Man... I would be happy as all get out... And also kicking myself. I'll check as soon as possible. If that's not it, I'll move on to checking voltage at the solenoid and setting up a jumper as Jeff suggested.

[Flyinfool]

I did work on one bike for someone that had electrical issues. The problem was traced back to when the fuse panel was replaced one of the wires was pushed to far into the connector and crimped onto the insulation and only luck was making the intermittent electrical connection.

 

The test on the two small wires at the solenoid, one of those wire is the same red/white circuit that is at the fuse panel. This would test to see if power was getting through all of the switches in the whole circuit. If it is not then we know we have to find the fault in the red/white circuit. If there is 12v at both terminals and the jumper cranks the engine, then we know that the fault is in the blue/white circuit and we can proceed to find where that is. But this test does give us a direction to head, and cuts the possibilities in half.

 

I was starting at the end of the circuit to determine if it is a ground issue or a power issue. Sometimes while moving things around during the testing process it can suddenly start working. Then you now have an intermittent issue to trace down. There is no way to find the fault once it all starts working, and there is no way to know how long it will keep working or when/if it will leave you stranded. There is nothing worse that tracking down an intermittent issue.

 

Sometimes (well at least once in a great while) there is actually a method to my madness.

[srknova74]

NEIL... For the win with "bad crimp" on the ignition wire going to the fuse block!!!! Huge, huge thanks to Jeff and Neil for responding logically to my post. Thank you guys tons!! Now on to the next issues. For any new bees reading this, this post alone is worth the yearly fee. Can't thank you guys enough!!! PS - already kicked my own @$$ for the bad crimp.

[Blackjack]

NEIL... For the win with "bad crimp" on the ignition wire going to the fuse block!!!! Huge, huge thanks to Jeff and Neil for responding logically to my post. Thank you guys tons!! Now on to the next issues. For any new bees reading this, this post alone is worth the yearly fee. Can't thank you guys enough!!! PS - already kicked my own @$$ for the bad crimp.

 

I agree! This one thread alone was a great read and incredibly informative. Thanks to all who participated...

[Flyinfool]

Glad you found it. Did you recrimp the rest of the fuse block?

Those cheap crimpers from the hardware store are responsible for a lot of bad crimps. Good crimpers are expensive.

[srknova74]

Glad you found it. Did you recrimp the rest of the fuse block?

Those cheap crimpers from the hardware store are responsible for a lot of bad crimps. Good crimpers are expensive.

 

When I get a moment it's gonna be solder unions and shrink wrap, ohm checking each connection as I go. What a PITA!

[Flyinfool]

An ohm meter will not show a weak crimp/connection, it will only show a completely open connection.

To find a weak connection you have to have that circuit powered with its max amp load (everything on that circuit turned on) and then use a volt meter set on its lowest scale to measure the voltage across the connection, it should always be zero volts. Anything above zero is resistance that is turning some of the power into heat at the connection.

[srknova74]

An ohm meter will not show a weak crimp/connection, it will only show a completely open connection.

To find a weak connection you have to have that circuit powered with its max amp load (everything on that circuit turned on) and then use a volt meter set on its lowest scale to measure the voltage across the connection, it should always be zero volts. Anything above zero is resistance that is turning some of the power into heat at the connection.

 

Noted. I always just checked for resistance. I guess this is why I'm not an electrician. Good wrench, bad electrician, lol. I'm getting better. Thanks for the pointers. You and Neil are pros! Thanks!!

[Neil86]

Jeff is spot on about testing connections.

On electrical many replace components needlessly, and most places won't let you return electrical parts (for good reason). Test, test, retest before replace.

[dna9656]

Before I left Miami, FL. for AK. I had an epsisode of bad grounds in my 65 Suburban. The bad ground was the socket portion of the rear blinker housing. The housing was aluminum, the socket steel, so the resulting corrosion created a bad ground.

When I was got to Fairbanks, AK. (with the USAF) I ran into another electrical problem with the 65. My right head light went out. I picked up a new one, plugged it in and it didn't work, tested both lights, both tested good. Checked for voltage at the light plug, a good 12VDC. So what is the problem? The problem was green stuff growing in the wire. The wire would carry voltage but not amperage.

I would replace the starter main wire with AWG 4 FINE strand wire, like good jumper wire. Maybe you got the green crud growing in your wires that comprise the troubled circuits....