Good Mechanic but need help with this one.

[srknova74]

Had this 84 Venture for 2 years now. It has 76K. Has had charging issues the whole time I've owned it. This winter i rebuilt the starter, put a Ricks stator in, some regulator off Ebay (new), upgraded the fuse box (sumilar to the one from Buckeye), testested everyrging warm and cold and seemed okay. Tested for draw and found the radio memory drawing 1.5 volts with the key off. Replaced radio and rewired. That fixed that. Rode for a while, let the bike sit... Now, starter wont engage with button no matter what (clutch in, neutral, etc). Jumper box to starter works. Jumping solenoid works. Repkaced solenoid... Still nothing. Also, fuel pump doesnt kick on with run switch like it used too. Checked run switch and starter switch, both working. Also, hitting starter button seems to drain battery even though starter and fuel pump arent engaging. Ideas?

[Venturous]

Kickstand shut-off switch maybe?

[srknova74]

Negative. Working fine. Kickstand warning on cluster working, plus wouldn't cause fuel pump not to kick on according to the wiring diagram posted on this site and in the manual. Ughh. So frustrated. Either going to burn it and roast marshmallows over it or completely rewire the bike this winter... Leaning more towards the smores right now.

[Flyinfool]

The fuel pump will not run if the float bowels are already full.

 

Open the drain on one of the carbs to empty the float bowel to see if the pump will then run.

 

Its been done before, so I have to ask, are you sure the kill switch is in the run position?

[srknova74]

Yes on the run switch. Even cranking starter over manually no fuel is being supplied. I could try draining carbs, but it seems less messy to check for voltage at pump... Which im guessing is nill.

[Neil86]

Even though you redid fuse box....with key on, verify you have battery voltage on the wire on the load side of the Ignition fuse.

 

What exactly do you mean that pushing starter button is draining battery?

[srknova74]

I will verify ignition voltage at box. By starter draining battery i mean, i hit starter button, headlight blinks (interupts as expected), but nothing else happens. After doing this 10 times or so the battery drops from a full 12 volts to 10~10.5, another 10 times is another volt drop, etc. extreme for no starter or fuel pump dont ya think?

[Venturous Randy]

What is the age and condition of the battery?

RandyA

[Neil86]

Are these voltages at the battery posts or the dash voltmeter?

[srknova74]

What is the age and condition of the battery?

RandyA

 

New. Replaced first year I bought the bike and again this year. AGM.

Actually have a duplicate in the coolant overflow area run in parallel with the main, also new, also AGM.

[srknova74]

Are these voltages at the battery posts or the dash voltmeter?

 

Both.

[Marcarl]

Could be either starter switch or kill switch. Nice that they are both in the same area. I would suggest to take both totally apart, clean them, make sure that they look like they work and then try it. Both will give the same problems. Fuel pump is shut off during starting, as well as when you push the kill switch.

[Neil86]

The voltage is dropping pushing starter button but returns to normal releasing button?

Or it stays down.

 

Okay...just read the parallel battery......disconnect one, test both.

[dna9656]

Kill/starter switch overhaul/cleaning is covered in the tech section on this or the Venturers forum. Lots of pictures and such. Have a CLEAN and well lit area to proceed.

I have a 83.5, parts for my model # are in the 84 parts catalog (XVZ12KCD2) so the switch on my bike (and maybe yours) is different than the one(s) used in the tech article but the info still applies. The Left switch on my bike has the choke on the aft side of the switch going around the handle bar, the one in the book has the choke on the bottom of the switch (for example) so your right hand switch may be different. I haven't checked the parts catalog to verify this.

[srknova74]

Even though you redid fuse box....with key on, verify you have battery voltage on the wire on the load side of the Ignition fuse.

 

What exactly do you mean that pushing starter button is draining battery?

 

11.93 on load side of ignition.

[srknova74]

Could be either starter switch or kill switch. Nice that they are both in the same area. I would suggest to take both totally apart, clean them, make sure that they look like they work and then try it. Both will give the same problems. Fuel pump is shut off during starting, as well as when you push the kill switch.

 

Done... Twice and verified.

[srknova74]

Kill/starter switch overhaul/cleaning is covered in the tech section on this or the Venturers forum. Lots of pictures and such. Have a CLEAN and well lit area to proceed.

I have a 83.5, parts for my model # are in the 84 parts catalog (XVZ12KCD2) so the switch on my bike (and maybe yours) is different than the one(s) used in the tech article but the info still applies. The Left switch on my bike has the choke on the aft side of the switch going around the handle bar, the one in the book has the choke on the bottom of the switch (for example) so your right hand switch may be different. I haven't checked the parts catalog to verify this.

 

It really acts like its the switch. I've FULLY disassembled, cleaned twice. Is there any way to bypass to verify?

[srknova74]

It really acts like its the switch. I've FULLY disassembled, cleaned twice. Is there any way to bypass to verify?

 

By that, I mean, the switch works eg. Open/close, but I don't know if the signal is going to where it needs to go.

[srknova74]

The voltage is dropping pushing starter button but returns to normal releasing button?

Or it stays down.

 

Okay...just read the parallel battery......disconnect one, test both.

 

Stays down. With or w/o second bat.

[srknova74]

Stays down. With or w/o second bat.

 

Drops when starter button pushed, headlight cuts... There is a draw... And enough to significantly drain the batt w/o starter or fuel pump engagement.

[srknova74]

THIS THING IS DRIVING ME NUCKING FUTZ I don't want to just keep throwing money and time at it. It runs fantastic when it runs. I have every kind of bike known to man and this is in my top 3. I love this bike, but I can't figure this one out. Also... Oddly, the manual bypass switch for the cooling fan alsono longer works. Could be same issue... Could be coincidence. Ughh.. What a PITA!

[Flyinfool]

Taking random pot shots at the issue is the hard way to find the problem.

 

You need to go through this in a logical order to get to everything and not miss something. We will start at the beginning.

 

1. Disconnect your secondary battery, it might be confusing the issue and the bike does not need 2 batteries.

2. Put the battery on a charger to fully charge it.

3. Take the battery in somewhere to have it load tested. I have seen name brand new bad batteries. If bad get a new one, the old one should be under warranty.

 

4. Clean the battery terminals. Don't just look at them and see if they look clean. Actually clean them till they are bright and shiny. Same with the terminals on the battery cables. Put the battery back in the bike.

5. Connect your digital volt meter to the battery terminals. what do you get?

6. Turn the bike on, it should be very close to the same as test 5.

7. Hit the start button what voltage do you get? Should be around 10V.

What did the bike do? It should have started.

What if any noises did you hear?

Did the voltage come back to where it was when you let go of the start button?

 

Let us know what you get and we can work from there. There are a lot of things that can cause a no start. We will hit the easy ones first.

 

Trouble shooting on a forum is not a fast or easy way to go, so have patients and we will get through this.

I have never been a fan of the throw money and parts at a problem till you get lucky and hit it. It takes longer to do all of the testing to be sure that you are replacing a bad part, but I am cheap. It is comon for these confusing situations to have multiple issues, it is the interaction of the multiple issues that makes it confusing. That is why you need to isolate each component when you are testing it so that some other issue can not change a test result. The only way to get through this is to start at the battery and follow the power through all of the different components in order. It does not matter if something is new, it will still get tested to be sure the new part is good.

[Prairiehammer]

As usual, Jeff has presented the most logical suggestions. Follow his advice to the letter. LOGIC is your most useful tool to possess when attempting to diagnose any problem, but ESPECIALLY when tracking down electrical issues.

 

One other suggestion to add: disconnect the fan (ground and Positive) and the 'manual switch' completely from the bike's electrical system, for now. It may be that the fan is locked up and combined with the manual switch that may have failed ON, the fan is drawing juice even if it is not rotating.

[srknova74]

As usual, Jeff has presented the most logical suggestions. Follow his advice to the letter. LOGIC is your most useful tool to possess when attempting to diagnose any problem, but ESPECIALLY when tracking down electrical issues.

 

One other suggestion to add: disconnect the fan (ground and Positive) and the 'manual switch' completely from the bike's electrical system, for now. It may be that the fan is locked up and combined with the manual switch that may have failed ON, the fan is drawing juice even if it is not rotating.

 

Good thought on disconnecting fan. I will try that.

[srknova74]

Taking random pot shots at the issue is the hard way to find the problem.

 

You need to go through this in a logical order to get to everything and not miss something. We will start at the beginning.

 

1. Disconnect your secondary battery, it might be confusing the issue and the bike does not need 2 batteries.

2. Put the battery on a charger to fully charge it.

3. Take the battery in somewhere to have it load tested. I have seen name brand new bad batteries. If bad get a new one, the old one should be under warranty.

 

4. Clean the battery terminals. Don't just look at them and see if they look clean. Actually clean them till they are bright and shiny. Same with the terminals on the battery cables. Put the battery back in the bike.

5. Connect your digital volt meter to the battery terminals. what do you get?

6. Turn the bike on, it should be very close to the same as test 5.

7. Hit the start button what voltage do you get? Should be around 10V.

What did the bike do? It should have started.

What if any noises did you hear?

Did the voltage come back to where it was when you let go of the start button?

 

Let us know what you get and we can work from there. There are a lot of things that can cause a no start. We will hit the easy ones first.

 

Trouble shooting on a forum is not a fast or easy way to go, so have patients and we will get through this.

I have never been a fan of the throw money and parts at a problem till you get lucky and hit it. It takes longer to do all of the testing to be sure that you are replacing a bad part, but I am cheap. It is comon for these confusing situations to have multiple issues, it is the interaction of the multiple issues that makes it confusing. That is why you need to isolate each component when you are testing it so that some other issue can not change a test result. The only way to get through this is to start at the battery and follow the power through all of the different components in order. It does not matter if something is new, it will still get tested to be sure the new part is good.

 

Jeff, thank you. All logical and all done. Battery load test fine at local shop, plus I have a carbon box and have done it myself. Have taken secondary battery out of the mix for diagnosis. Battery always fully charged for testing. Have not only cleaned the battery terminals and replaced screws, I have cleaned all grounds and every electrical pigtail behind the headlight, left hand cover, and near the battery. Battery volts at terminal no key - 12.5 (some surface charge). Key on drops to 11.97. Run switch off and on, I hear no fuel pump like I used too. No other noise at all. If I hit the starter button there is no noise, but the voltage drops to about 10.6 and the headlight cuts out. After repeated attempts, 15-20, voltage drops at terminals steadily. If no key on and the bike sits at full charge it will hold that charge. I don't know how else to explain. I can answer any question or perform any test.