Bike No Start

[djh3]

At least the big ole cargo jets I worked on would give you what they called a fuselage station to locate said connector. Could be anywhere from say the floor to the ceiling, but you had a general area.

 

 

Seaking here is some info from Tank on the Delphi on location your pick up plug.

the pickup coil is mounted in where the stator is in the left front cover. the wires travel back under the area where the REAR left chrome cover is and then up behind the motor (tranny area) to the rear center of the frame - right along with the stator harness. Right where the three-wire stator connector is at the main harness is also a two-wire connector which is the pickup coil. there's even a reusable tie wrap that secures both harnesses (stator and pickup coil) before the plugs.

 

when I go after those connections, I pull the overflow reservoir and they are visible just to the left of where the reservoir bracket is coming in from the right side looking left. I have seen other people that pull the battery box (battery first, obviously) but I personally think that is more work than just pulling the reservoir but tomAto, toMAHto - whichever you prefer t

o do. Edited July 24, 2014 by djh3
Info from Tank on Delphi

[Seaking]

OK see if this helps you out at all. Your pick up plug I have no idea where its at. Maybe this picture will help with some of the other location spots.

 

Sweet! The image much appreciated.. I'll etch that info into the cover!

 

Thanks!

[Seaking]

At least the big ole cargo jets I worked on would give you what they called a fuselage station to locate said connector. Could be anywhere from say the floor to the ceiling, but you had a general area.

Seaking here is some info from Tank on the Delphi on location your pick up plug.

o do.

 

Great info, thanks!! Sucks that I JUST put the dang battery box back in just recently after changing out the two relays... (palm to forehead...) At least I can do it again, quicker this time.

 

Gents, thank you for the info, hopefully tonight or this weekend after work I will be able to tackle this and see what the score is.

 

I used to be an aircraft technician who is used to having detailed technical orders detailing everything for location, various values etc.. Who ever wrote this Venture manual should be forced to recite it out loud in front of all frustrated RSV owners while being pelted with rotten vegetables of various sizes and shapes..

 

Cheers

[Seaking]

I feel your pain. The Yamaha service manual is definately among the worst. Only slightly better than nothing.

Mike

 

Which makes awesome forums like this one worth every penny of subscription costs!!

[Seaking]

Ok.. so here's where are now..

 

New ignition switch (no bypass stuff installed)

 

New side stand relay

 

New Starter relay

 

All new fuses "everywhere" (thanks for the chart)

 

All connectors to and from battery and switch and relays and where ever cleaned and brightened..

 

New spark plugs installed.

 

Vent lines blown clear, (one clogged, another pinched)

 

(did not want to pull battery box out tonight.. sigh)

 

On side stand, Key ON, choke out, neutral, clutch in (neutral light is on) and cycle the kill switch...

 

fresh charge on the battery...

 

Hit the starter.. crank crank crank.. sigh..

 

Hit the starter.. crank crank POP.. huh? POP?! wait a tic..

 

Hit the starter and cran-- ROAR... whoa Nelly.. she's alive!! wow..

 

Ok.. let it warm up.. gentle choke off..idles lower than before.. but still holding on..

 

Hmm twist the throttle and she roars.. Hmmm ok... that sounds better.. but will it start again..?

 

Shut it off with the key.. wait 1 minute.. no choke hit starter etc and roar.. wow.. nice..

 

Shut it down.. wait 30 minutes.. start the bike, roar.. nice again...

 

OK, so everything "seems" to be working OK.. time to button up the bike and take it out for a test run.. after the rain stops.. sigh..

 

Question.. does the fact that it took several cranking attempts indicate something amiss or just the bike being cranky ol nasty for sitting idle for a few weeks?

 

There are a few new sounds and different vibes while bike is on idle (all good mind you)..,. thinking the new switch and cleared vent lines is making things breathe and function with better authority now..??

 

I will still take the time to check out the pick up coil resistance over the weekend JUST to make sure..

 

Will let you know how the bike runs after a few runs and how she starts after sitting idle for a day or so.. see how she starts,.. I'm now starting to say nice things to my bike again.. with a softer gentler voice... ya never know, it might help..

 

Hmm I can see the VStar getting jealous now that it won't be ridden as often now that the RSV is alive again..

 

More as the test runs proceed..

[djh3]

Could be that it was just flooded? I dont know, thats where I was last week with the one I have in the shop. Only it was the no crank. Just a good cleaning of all connectors I could get to and a small repair and it has hit every time I go out to start.

I know what you mean on the aircraft. 20yr working aircraft for uncle Sam here. pull out book and it gives a pretty detailed description of where and a location.

[MikeWa]

When looking for these connectors I think they are under the center cover located between and connecting the left and right side covers. In the center of the bike. To access it remove the seat, left and right side covers, and center cover. Slide the center cover out to the right.

 

Sorry I just do not recall for sure but I think that is where they are located

 

Mike

[MikeWa]

Congrats. If you got it working there is no sense pursuing false leads.

 

Mike

[Seaking]

When looking for these connectors I think they are under the center cover located between and connecting the left and right side covers. In the center of the bike. To access it remove the seat, left and right side covers, and center cover. Slide the center cover out to the right.

 

Sorry I just do not recall for sure but I think that is where they are located

 

Mike

 

I think that's where it is Mike, according to the other sources.. I'll have a look in a few days and confirm it.

 

I took the bike out tonight and wow, a little clean up on the hoses and connectors brought new power to the engine... smoother and more responsive.. The idle needed adjusting and no doubt the carbs will require re-sync'ing now that all is changed around on the bike stuff.. All that's left is cleaning out the air filters, glass bead the clutch plates, oil change, lube, tighten the neck and this bike is ready for another 100K miles.. (now at 124K miles on the odo..) The valves were done 25K miles ago so should be good to go for another 25K miles before I have to get to that one again.

 

Only one thing I couldn't resolve yet.. When you look at the air chambers above the carbs, there is a hose that runs forward from the interconnect and tucks in under the left side of the front of the carbs.. I have a bit of kink in one of the bends.. this is about a 1 inch size hose.. Its routed properly but at one of the preformed bends there's a pinch / kink in the hose.. Wondering how much of an effect that has on the engine with some restriction of the air passage like that? I couldn't un-kink it.. seems to formed in there with time.. a new hose in the future..

 

Next on the line is to take the bags and trunk locks to a locksmith and get them retumbled to the new key..

[djh3]

I think that hose is just sort of a vent/breather hose to equalize the air box. Where does it go? does it look to supply vacuum or air anywhere. I think it goes down to the AIR widgit thing under the bike for emissions.

So what WAS the fix?

[Neil86]

Sounds like the crankcase vent hose has the kink.

Could allow the crankcase to pressure up if its severe restriction.

 

Regarding the spark situation well its great it started but if nothing was changed since the last time you verified no spark, I think it'll be back to pester you.

[Seaking]

Once I got it started it last night, it has started fine since then.. even better than ever before.. very little to no choke required on a cold start (this bike kinda always needed 'some' choke after a day sitting idle).. Rode it a bit last night for a while, started up fine after 30 minute shut down.. Started fine this morning after an overnight sitting idle.. After work this evening, started fine with little to no choke.. quite quickly too.. nice. Better than ever before.

 

I'm guessing that the switch was dead on the two wire side of things.. Bike wouldn't start few weeks ago but would if I did that jumper trick.. then it wouldn't start at all. That's when I noticed the lack of neutral light and such.. Ignition switch needed recplacing but once installed didn't fix it all.. but the side stand relay replacement resolved the additional problem. The starter relay was a "might as well before it too dies" replacement.

 

As for the no spark thing? Hmm out of curiosity, I pulled one of the rear plugs out, laid it against the engine casing to ground it and cranked it over.. NO spark visible.. huh? But when I put it back in, the bike started fine and produced heat to all 4 cylinders.. Either I'm blind as a bat or the spark is that tiny I can't see it. Either way, it all seems to be working well right now.. However, the proof will be in the pudding next week when the rains return and we'll see if humidity has anything to do with anything as well.

 

I still plan on doing the pick up coil check as described, just to make sure..

 

In short: Ignition switch needed to be replaced to find out why no spark.. Once replaced, determined that side stand relay was duff (continuity check across diodes failed) and that was replaced. Bike still would not start but it did turn over strongly..

 

As suggested by someone, perhaps it would not start because it was flooded or stale gas in the carbs.. nonetheless, when it did start it has been working fine..

 

So the last 'no spark' issue after the switch and relays were replaced might not have been an issue at all.. just needed to catch and sort itself out properly after sitting idle for so long waiting for parts.

 

Tomorrow I shall be road testing it properly, long haul, power hauls etc and see how she plays well with others.. I have CAA (our version of AAA) so if she dies on me again, it's a free trailer haul back to the house up for 300 and some KMs worth..

 

Fingers crossed. I have a cross continent road trip planned for next month so this babe has to perform.. well.

[MikeWa]

At this point I doubt you have a pick-up coil issue. They can go intermittent but if that is the case it will usually test good when it is working and bad when it is not.

 

Mike

[Seaking]

Thanks Mike.. Next time "if" the bike fails I'll be sure to check that.

 

In regards to the kinked hose, it's the hose that's attached to part #22 under "intake" in the parts fiche.. and the closest thing I find that might connect to it is "breather hose" part #31 under "radiator" in the parts fiche.. In one of the lower turns is where it's kinked.. I don't think it's pinched off completely, but suffice to say it's restricted air flow..

 

Thanks for your input..

 

Cheers

[Neil86]

Yes its the crankcase breather AKA crankcase vent.

 

Sometimes seeing spark in difficult in daylight...since you can't see it

even when its running normally, we'll have to assume there was spark

again during the repair list.

Hope you have a smooth trip!

[djh3]

You can always get a friend to hold on to it while you crank it over.

[Seaking]

You can always get a friend to hold on to it while you crank it over.

 

 

Hmm true... you'd get confirmation of spark or not.. and a comedy show at the same time.. Just hope you can run faster laughing than he does mad..

 

Just heading out for hopefully a full day of test riding... Carb synch later today if all goes well... (fingers crossed)

[Seaking]

A great many thanks to those who were instrumental in helping me get Alice back up and running again.. After three days of hard test riding, I think I can call this one 'fixed" with a cautious tone...

 

With a new ignition switch, side stand relay, starter relay and spark plugs, the bikes has been starting well with authority every time.. I took the time to clean off all the electrical connectors to and from the battery, fixed any dodgy looking connector ends and wires..

 

And for the first time in a long time, without the need of choke. After un-kinking and unclogging a couple of crank case vent hoses, the bike runs like never before. Smooth, with noticeably more power. With just over 125K miles, the girl was showing her age before the change of parts..

 

Riding the highway and back roads, in the heat and in the rain, leaving it outdoors overnight (nights are cool now), the bike starts well every time.

 

Not sure why but the revs even dropped down a tad at given speeds. With the VMax rear diff installed, I used to cruise the highway at 70 mph turning around 3800 rpm which gave me a consistent fuel milage. Reserve was reached at around 165 to 170 miles with a 50 miles reserve till dry.. Now, it's turning around 3650 to 3700 rpm at 70 mph and reserve is reached around 170-175 miles on the last three tanks.. The fact that the annoying low end rumble is now gone might be due to those clogged vent hoses.

 

Cruise controls work fine, everything else works well on the bike.. smooth power, no hiccups or weirdness about the bike anymore.

 

However, the mention of the pickup coil in earlier posts is still on the list of things to be checked next time if the bike fails me again.. perhaps changing it out this winter for nothing more than the peace of mind.. Later on, when time permits I'll be doing the bypass relay thing.

 

All that's left now is to re-tumble the gas cap and bags locks to the new key and all is good.

 

Thanks again!

 

Cheers

[djh3]

I personally am glad to hear its up and running for you. Bad part is we really dont know what the problem was. But its fixed and you get to ride before the white stuff flys. which this year sometimes looks like late Jan.

I will miss the 3 e-mails a week but get out and ride.