Bike No Start

[Seaking]

2006 RSV Midnight: A month or so ago, the ignition switch failed on the bike and I had to do the jumper wire trick to keep the bike going. Flick the switch, turn the key and the bike runs nicely. Then after a while, nothing. The bike would turn over but not catch. A few other symptoms reared their ugly heads, parts replaced yet nothing. Here is the list of parts and what's happening:

 

Ignition (key switch) replaced.

 

Relay, side stand, the one next to coolant tank replaced. (bike would not show neutral light etc) new relay fixed that.

 

Starter Relay (left side behind passenger floor board) replaced ('just because, just in case')

 

What happens now is that when I turn the key, everything appears normal (no hi/lo headlight indication on instrument though the headlight functions properly hi/lo)

 

Fuel pump is heard clicking as per norm.

 

Bike on side stand, in neutral (light and roll test tells me so) Clutch lever pulled in..

 

Cycle the kill switch, the tach resets as normal as it always has..

 

Press starter button, the engine turns strongly but does not start.

 

Battery is a year old..

 

All fuses checked and even replaced (fuse box left side of bike, under right front cowl and on starter relay)

 

Fuel pump checked, pushes out a lot of fuel.. a lot..

 

All wiring connectors on and to the battery, key switch and relays previously mentioned have been cleaned and properly connected.

 

New spark plugs. Checked each one to see if there was spark but no spark to any of the four.

 

4 Coils replaced a few years ago under warranty (they didn't need to be but the shop did anyway, a bad fuel pump that they missed was the real culprit)

 

There is fuel going to the system, there is air going to the system but there is no spark going to the system to finish off the sequence to start the bike..

 

What else can I check, test or look into to get this ol' girl running again.. ?

 

Thoughts, ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

(suffering RSV withdrawal symptoms)

 

Cheers

[sldunker]

Check your ignition fuse behind the left side cover.

[Neil86]

You probably want to test the resistance on the pickup coil.

It is mounted in the stator cover and signals crankshaft position to the igniter.

 

Unhook connector and test resistance between the 2 wires down to the coil. (Gray & Black)

Should be around 189-231 ohms.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Neil86

[Monty]

I would probably check the ignition switch first, & see if you got all of the connections correct, & they are good & tight.

[Condor]

When you pull a plug is it wet or dry??

[djh3]

I have worked with him some on this. Something to the tune of what seaking 45+ e-mails. LOL He has a keyless by pass kit, has actually replaced the ignition switch with a new OEM, and I know they can only go together one way.

I'm m thinking along the lines of the pick up or ecm also. I cant see 4 coils going out at one time.

[Prairiehammer]

After you replaced the ignition switch, did you restore the wiring to what it was before the bypass?

If you are going to continue to use the bypass along with the new ignition switch, make sure that the bypass didn't get messed up. And is ON.

[djh3]

I think he did. Seems to me he took everything out of the works so just the switch was in the loop once it would not run. So as to eliminate that as a trouble source.

[Seaking]

Check your ignition fuse behind the left side cover.

 

Thanks. Any chance you would have a photo of what this looks like. As previously mentioned, all fuses in the left side cover fuse box were replaced, as were the two fuses on the newly installed starter relay.. Is there another one I didn't see in that area?

 

Cheers

[Seaking]

You probably want to test the resistance on the pickup coil.

It is mounted in the stator cover and signals crankshaft position to the igniter.

 

Unhook connector and test resistance between the 2 wires down to the coil. (Gray & Black)

Should be around 189-231 ohms.

 

Many thanks, Neil.. I'll have a look at this one..

 

Too nice a day today to be tossing wrenches at this bike, went out on a day long ride on the suped up VStar.. now ready to get back to work..

 

Cheers

[Seaking]

When you pull a plug is it wet or dry??

 

Good question. I spark tested the plugs with them pulled out and grounded to the engine casing, and cranked the bike in the dark looking for any hint of spark (none). I'll check the condition of the plugs next time I have everything back together again and crank it over some more.

 

If fuel at the pump but dry at the plugs, what should I be looking at next?

 

Cheers

[Seaking]

After you replaced the ignition switch, did you restore the wiring to what it was before the bypass?

If you are going to continue to use the bypass along with the new ignition switch, make sure that the bypass didn't get messed up. And is ON.

 

Yes, everything in regards to anything "bypass" has been removed and tossed to the side. New ignition switch is plugged directly to the bike, all connectors cleaned and connected properly.. Bike is back to OEM configuration in this area..

 

Cheers

[MikeWa]

When diagnosing a problem like this I try to block isolate first. Meaning isolate to one of these four areas, spark, fuel, compression, timing. In your case timing and compression are unlikely. So start by testing fuel and ignition. Remove a fuel line from pump to carbs and key the bike up. Or if you have a fuel pressure tester use that. If fuel sprays out move on to ignition. If fuel does not spray out get out your trusty volt meter and check power to the fuel pump or jump power to the fuel pump. Note: I usualy try to spray the fuel into a bottle.

 

If you have satisfactory fuel pressure, spray, It is time to check ignition. First make sure all fuel vapors have cleared. Remove a spark plug wire and check for spark while cranking.(Also this is a good time to confirm compression). If you have no spark check for power input to the igniter. If you have power to the igniter check for a crank signal to the igniter. If you have a crank signal check the igniter ground. These are all checked by back probing the wires at the igniter connections.

 

The hardest part about this actually is deciding you are going to do it. It seems daunting at first but once you get started it moves along pretty good. Just be patient and persistent.

 

Good Luck

Mike

[Flyinfool]

Good question. I spark tested the plugs with them pulled out and grounded to the engine casing, and cranked the bike in the dark looking for any hint of spark (none). I'll check the condition of the plugs next time I have everything back together again and crank it over some more.

 

If fuel at the pump but dry at the plugs, what should I be looking at next?

 

Cheers

 

This is not a fuel issue.

No spark is the issue.

You now have a direction to move in.

See above spark issues.

[Seaking]

If you have no spark check for power input to the igniter. If you have power to the igniter check for a crank signal to the igniter. If you have a crank signal check the igniter ground. These are all checked by back probing the wires at the igniter connections. The hardest part about this actually is deciding you are going to do it. It seems daunting at first but once you get started it moves along pretty good. Just be patient and persistent.

Good Luck

Mike

 

Thanks Mike. While I do know I have fuel (pump works, sprays out fuel when key turned), I have no spark.

 

The hardest part of all this is not deciding to do it (I have no choice but to do it but the hardest part is figuring out where and what everything is, and how to do it properly.. Still doing the research.. Not getting far yet..

 

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Cheers

[MikeWa]

The wiring diagram will give you the pin numbers and wire colors at the igniter connections. Most of your tests will be straight foreword voltage tests. The cps or pick up coil will be a pulsing or duty cycle signal while cranking. You might be able to read it on the ac scale. It must be well over a half volt and pulsing. You can also disconnect it and it should measure 189-235 ohms. The 2 wire B plug for this sensor is located next to the 3 wire stator plug. in the picture. Left side cover.

 

Mike

 

[ATTACH]85865[/ATTACH]

[Seaking]

The wiring diagram will give you the pin numbers and wire colors at the igniter connections. Most of your tests will be straight foreword voltage tests. The cps or pick up coil will be a pulsing or duty cycle signal while cranking. You might be able to read it on the ac scale. It must be well over a half volt and pulsing. You can also disconnect it and it should measure 189-235 ohms. The 2 wire B plug for this sensor is located next to the 3 wire stator plug. in the picture. Left side cover.

Mike

[ATTACH]85865[/ATTACH]

 

Thanks Mike, under MY left cover is the fuse box and fuel pump.. connectors for fuel pump and speedo.. As far as I remember, behind the left side passenger floorboard panel is the starter relay..

 

Though I'm able to do most of my own mechanical work on this bike (valves, neck bearling, clutch, wheels etc..) I'm at loss with the electrical stuff.

 

The book mentions "main fuse" but declines to mention where it is..

 

The fuse box under the left side cover has writing inside the cover but mine are all bodged over and unreadable.. From front to rear of the box, I have a 10, 10, 156, 15 and 10A fuses.. Can anyone tell me which is which?

 

Thanks

[MikeWa]

In the VR Tech section you will find books and manuals you can download.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=91

 

Mike

[MikeWa]

Should be near here. #7 is pick-up coil.

Mike

 

[ATTACH]85894[/ATTACH]

[Seaking]

Thanks Mike, same docs and manuals I have here.. Notice in the image that they show the cables coming off the items with a cut off line.. basically not indicating where they pop out of the bike at the other end? Ok, this is where my search begins. I know where the stator and the pickup coil is, but I'm trying to find out where the connector is so that I don't have to pull off the cover and having to purchase a gasket.. "under the left side cover" is what I'm reading and finding but either my bike is a bass-ackwards bike or there's a misprint somewhere because those connectors are not there..

 

For the electrically challenged (me) this is furstrating. The books, manuals and FAQs all assume you know exactly where each item is located on the bike. "check main fuse".. ok, where is it? Check ignition fuse.. same deal. I'm going through the manual and parts list trying to locate where various items are that people are recommending that I check but where are these items? The manual might as well just say: "You'll find it between the front and rear wheel"..

 

But I do appreciate your assistance!

[Neil86]

There will be an external connector for the pickup coil (a 2 wire)

and then the main plug at the igniter.

 

No need to break open the stator cover for testing.

 

According to wiring schematic the 2 wire connector has 2 wires Gray & a Black on pickup coil side of plug...on igniter side they

are White/Red and a Black/Blue wires going to a 8 wire plug on the igniter.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Neil86
wire colours

[djh3]

Main fuse is on the right side of the starter relay you already replaced. The other is a spare for it.Should be 30 amp jobs. The Ignition fuse is in that fuse box on the left side of the bike with the other 4 or so you have checked.

I agree, while working on the bike I am the manual is not very descriptive about telling you where in the hect to look for XYZ connector. It will tell you to check ohm or voltage but where it is actually located.......not so much.

[Seaking]

Main fuse is on the right side of the starter relay you already replaced. The other is a spare for it.Should be 30 amp jobs. The Ignition fuse is in that fuse box on the left side of the bike with the other 4 or so you have checked.

I agree, while working on the bike I am the manual is not very descriptive about telling you where in the hect to look for XYZ connector. It will tell you to check ohm or voltage but where it is actually located.......not so much.

 

Phew, ok so I'm not the only one with this problem

 

If you get a chance, can you have a look at the label inside that fuse box and let me know what the writing is supposed to be (from left to right as you're facing it?)

 

Fuses are good all around.. so now that I have a better idea where to dig out that pick up coil connector I'll be able to check that out after work tonight..

 

I have the Dyna3000 installed on this bike.. if I can find my OEM box I'll swap that out as well.. ya never know..

 

Thanks gents.

[djh3]

OK see if this helps you out at all. Your pick up plug I have no idea where its at. Maybe this picture will help with some of the other location spots.

[MikeWa]

I feel your pain. The Yamaha service manual is definately among the worst. Only slightly better than nothing.

 

Mike