Synthetic or Not, How to Tell?

[Bodaggit23]

I got my bike with 15,000 miles on it.

 

I have no way of knowing if the oil was switched to

synthetic at any time in the past.

 

I want to do an oil change:

 

1. Is there any way to tell if the oil is synthetic or not?

 

2. If it happens to be synthetic, and I put conventional

oil in, will it harm the engine?

 

3. Should I just switch to synthetic to be safe?

[IronMike]

You can do either. switching back and forth won't harm anything. To reduce service interval and be more cost effective go with synthetic.

 

You can't beat Amsoil for your bike. You can run it twice as long as what the OM suggests.

No other oil will preform better. Watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnKTpGt1k0

AT one time Mobile 1 Motorcycle oil came very close in an independent lab study, a few years later a White page independent Lab study showed that Mobile one did worse than the previous test and Amsoil improved. You can study up on those white pages by doing a search and read the PDF. I use Amsoil. And I leave it in as long as they suggest. Often more.

 

In any case synthetic is always better when the oil is tested for further service at the end. Dino Oil can break down as fast as after the first ride. Seriously! http://www.westcoastsynthetic-oil.com/Amsoil-2009-motorcycle-white-paper.htm

A small amount of oil does remain when you change it, so the only real important this is to stick with the same viscosity through the change. Don't put 10 W 40 in and add 10 W 50 to it. So you are good to go. Put almost enough in and bring it up to where it should be. Because you never know what was left in there.

 

I also use an K&P engineering S 1 oil filter,

You buy one ONCE it filters better and it's Green! When I bought the Venture I took it off the Roadstar to use. When I got the Roadstar going again, I went out and bought another K&P for it! It just didn't rev right without it on. And it runs cooler too.

This concludes my opinion based on actual facts with links. LOL

Edited July 19, 2014 by IronMike
links

[Yammer Dan]

Choose a good oil of your choice. Nothing would be harmed with that mileage. I'm beating myself because I know what is in mine and not sure I want to go that way. Mine now has 30k and I'll have to make up my mind soon. I am a big Dino 20/50 Castrol fan. but this thing is a Synthetic baby. I don't think in the end it makes much difference which way you go. Pick a good oil and change it as it should be. I'm leaning towards synthetic for this one because Dino I change at 3k Synthetic at 6k. More time to ride without worry???Synthetic costs a lot more but from everything I've heard you can go a lot longer between changes??? Flip a coin!!!!

[peterg]

I bought my bike with 80K kilometres (50,000 miles) with clean oil from a dealer. I didn't ask what was in there but assumed it was the cheapest stuff they had "on tap". (probably dinosaur oil)

I switched to Amsoil which I had run in my GW with success, but it made my particular bike (06 RSTD) scream like a banshee.

I went to Castrol GTX 10-40 and it vastly reduced the whine. I am now trying out Rotella-T and it seems to be reducing the noise even more. Because it's designed to run in diesels, it has (I think) more resistance to sheer break-down which running it in a m/c transmission (apparently the source of the whine) might induce. Anyway, it seems to work.

As far as I can tell, oil is oil. It is designed to lubricate, and it does.

Why did Amsoil work so well in my GW and not my RSTD? I don't know, but I've never seen a scientific explanation of why one shouldn't switch from one to the other.

I avoid any oil that says it has "additives" to make it "fuel efficient", as I'm concerned that they might affect the clutch.

I'm back to dinosaur oil and staying there. Others may have better success with synthetics.

Just my (Canadian) two cents worth, although we don't have cents in Canada any more. We round down or up to the nearest nickel, so rounding down I guess my ideas are worthless.

 

Peter

[Peder_y2k]

You said:

1. Is there any way to tell if the oil is synthetic or not?

 

Answer: Heat a teaspoon sample to 800°F for 10 minutes. If the sample turns to ash, it is mineral base dino oil. If the sample turns to a highly corrosive acid, it is synthetic.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

[wes0778]

When I bought my RSV it had just 16,000.0 miles and the RSTC had about 27,000.0 when I bought it. First oil change for both I changed to synthetic. No ill effects to either that I can tell. The RSV now has 48,600.0. I change it every 6-7000 miles.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Mostly good advice but no one mentioned the wet clutch.

 

Make sure that whichever oil you choose, its rated for a wet clutch, or has the JASO MA rating on the container, and does NOT say "energy conserving'.

 

Sorry, but Oil is not just Oil.

 

There are different types and grades.

 

Having said that, I will say this:

 

The driveability difference between synthetic and organic oil in a water-cooled touring bike can be subjective but for engine longevity, either will work and the motor will last for years with ZERO oil related failures.

 

I prefer organic (mineral) oils for everything I ride or drive, and believe me, when I say, I have tried synthetics.

 

The primary benefit of synthetics (unless its an air-cooled engine) is to help lighten your wallet and put more dollars in someones else's bank account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2014 by tx2sturgis

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

You can't beat Amsoil for your bike.

 

 

This concludes my opinion based on actual facts with links. LOL

 

 

I love the way you stated that!

 

Now...to diverge from that opinion I will offer this:

 

I have ridden my HDs in conditons almost bad enough to 'coke' the organic (mineral) oil and I agree, synthetic is a good choice for air-cooled engines with a separate oil supply for the transmission.

 

In water-cooled, wet-clutch bikes with integrated transmission like the Venture, JASO MA rated organics are fine.

 

[IronMike]

Good thing we don't even come close to half as many degrees. I would not want either in the motor.

 

 

You said:

1. Is there any way to tell if the oil is synthetic or not?

 

Answer: Heat a teaspoon sample to 800°F for 10 minutes. If the sample turns to ash, it is mineral base dino oil. If the sample turns to a highly corrosive acid, it is synthetic.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

[IronMike]

Dino will do, but sythetic will do more than twice as much.

If you can read the White pages the proof is there.

 

I had a serious problem with my Roadstar and went through two years of engine oil analysis diagnosing a problem all covered by Yamaha (It was an intake leak) the differences in what oil you put in is significant.

 

BUT you may never get to test the oil, like run it longer or have a cooling problem, its when something happens that the extra protection is realized. And its always going to happen on a trip. Most all my riding is on long trips. I don't take chances.

 

I know that if two Ventures same year same miles roughly were to fill with oil, add none and go until they blow, the synthetic one would always outlast the Dino.

 

But if you jump around town and like to change oil, Dino would surely be your best bet cost wise.

 

I have not used Dino in anything since at least 1980 Not even the Cub Cadet.

[Bodaggit23]

Thank you everyone!

 

Does anyone know what the filter number is for my 1997 Tour Deluxe?

 

I have the service manual and owners manual and it's not listed in

the obvious places...it says what kind of oil to use, when to change

the oil, when to change the filter, but no filter number...?

[IronMike]

If you use synthetic, a Mobile 1 110 works. its $12 about I am always overkill but you can do a search and come up with many. I don't buy cheapo stuff, As i said i have the K&P permanent oil filter. S 1 I have been know to buy a bag of kitty litter and change oil in a Parking lot, no filter needed.

 

I think I am too hard Core for normal riders. But Im glad im not normal.

[BlueSky]

Car oils that are sold as "synthetic" are Group III dino oil and I would bet that it is the same with motorcycle oils. They may have some real synthetic such as PAO blended in. You can swap back and forth, mix them, it doesn't matter. I would stick with the JASO spec oil whatever you use.

[Venturous Randy]

I went to Amsoil years ago and got some leaks I did not have before.

I always used Valvoline in everything and now use RotelaT 15 40 diesel oil. It works great and is about the cheapest oil I can find and my bike runs less noisy with Rotela T.

RandyA

[wes0778]

Thank you everyone!

 

Does anyone know what the filter number is for my 1997 Tour Deluxe?

 

I have the service manual and owners manual and it's not listed in

the obvious places...it says what kind of oil to use, when to change

the oil, when to change the filter, but no filter number...?

 

Not wanting to start anything, just what I use, "just because"

Purolator PureONE PL14610 or PL14612

 

The PL14610 is a little longer, so it is a tight fit.

[XV1100SE]

Important thing with oil for our bike is :

- JASO MA

- if you add oil between changes, stick with the same viscosity

- avoid any oil that says it has "additives" to make it "fuel efficient"

- given the above, buy what you can afford

- recommended to change oil filter ever second oil change

 

When I first got my '09 RSV four years ago, based on reading here, one of the recommended oils was Mobil 1 synthetic. Using what had been tried by others here and recommended was important. Couple years ago I switched because of the cost. For oil alone in Canada it was costing me almost $75 per oil change.

 

Further reading was that Rotella T6 was another recommended oil. In Canada, full price of it is $42 a jug. On sale it is usually around $36 or half the price of the Mobil 1.

 

My bike has no issue with Rotella T6 and is probably what I'll run for the life of the bike or as long as I have it. I will however start smuggling jugs of T6 across the border when I go to the States because the last time I saw it in a Walmart in Buffalo it was only $21 regular price.

 

I can't comment on Amsoil because I have no experience with it.

 

I use the OEM oil filter because I don't want to experiment with this "critical" part of the system.

 

Even though T6 is synthetic I stick to the scheduled oil changes but know (or in my head know) that if I'm on a trip and go further with that oil that I'm still safe. Cost of using synthetic and changing on schedule is cheaper than a replacement engine.

 

Only way to really know which is better would be if two bikes were run the same way for the same mileage, both with different oils...and tear them down after 100,000 miles and analyze wear on the cylinders, pistons, rings, seals, check for sludge....

 

I would bet that you would only find small measurable differences...but for my peace of mind, I'll stick with T6.

[Flyinfool]

I went to Amsoil years ago and got some leaks I did not have before.

I always used Valvoline in everything and now use RotelaT 15 40 diesel oil. It works great and is about the cheapest oil I can find and my bike runs less noisy with Rotela T.

RandyA

 

Same result here.

I always ran Valvoline MC oil. Last year I got a deal so I tried Amsoil in my bike. While I did not notice any difference in how it ran, MPG, or noises, I did notice that almost every original seal and gasket on the engine started to leak oil. This year I went back to the Valvoline and my leaks are all slowing down. I do run the Amsoil gear lube in all of my gear boxes that use gear lube on the bike and cages.