Trans jumping

[zlMark]

Well it's finally arrived,, 56,000mi and under moderate to hard acceleration it's starting to jump, first I thought it was a miss but now after reading here it's the tranny problem. It's a shame the bike looks pretty good for an 83. What all would I have in parts to fix this myself? I may just tear it down and part it out. Or sell the whole bike if the offer is right. Isn't it purdy!

[Gone14S]

Mine has the same problem. I just skip second gear. I am going to get a newer motor that will not have the second gear problem.

There are posts here that give you a step by step repair for this problem.

 

You do have a nice bike. You can make a fair amount of money out of her on ebay. Bikes like yours and others are getting hard to find in good shape. Don't get me wrong they do come up but far and few between.

If you really want to keep the bike it would be cheaper to rebuild the trans yourself (if you can swing a wrech) or replace the motor with a newer one.

 

Eighter way good luck!~

 

Kurt

[Venturous Randy]

If you want to have a very intimate relationship with your bike and get to know it inside out, do the fix. Yes, it is a lot of work, but it looks like you have a good place to do it. As Kurt noted, there is a lot of good information on here and a lot of folks willing to help you. I have been into mine twice, the first time doing the undercut on 2nd gear and then 60,000 miles later I replaced the gear set from an 86.

If I had known to replace the thrust washer with a newer one instead of just turning it over, I would probably still be running on the under cut set just fine. But, that was about ten years ago that I did it and I did not know they were now made harder. Even at 60,000 miles on the under cut set, it was not jumping any under hard pull, and I was pulling a 450 pound camper thru the mountains. I was just beginning to get some rattle at idle on the side stand.

Anyway, if you are game to do it, we can walk you thru it and you can probably fix it for under $100 or with all new parts, closer to $500.

RandyA

[GeorgeS]

Start looking for a 1300CC engine. In the long run, the total cost will probably be about the same as repairing the 1200.

 

Then go to work on the 1200, or part it out.

 

Anyway thats what I would do.

[Condor]

Just keep the R's up coming out of 1st, and you may be able to get a bunch more miles out of it. Lug it down in 2nd, where it starts to jump out, and you're asking for things to go bad. Also when shifting, don't be bashful and let the dogs chatter before engaging. It causes the dogs to round off. Shift it quick and positive.

[zlMark]

If you want to have a very intimate relationship with your bike and get to know it inside out, do the fix. Yes, it is a lot of work, but it looks like you have a good place to do it. As Kurt noted, there is a lot of good information on here and a lot of folks willing to help you. I have been into mine twice, the first time doing the undercut on 2nd gear and then 60,000 miles later I replaced the gear set from an 86.

If I had known to replace the thrust washer with a newer one instead of just turning it over, I would probably still be running on the under cut set just fine. But, that was about ten years ago that I did it and I did not know they were now made harder. Even at 60,000 miles on the under cut set, it was not jumping any under hard pull, and I was pulling a 450 pound camper thru the mountains. I was just beginning to get some rattle at idle on the side stand.

Anyway, if you are game to do it, we can walk you thru it and you can probably fix it for under $100 or with all new parts, closer to $500.

RandyA

man I like the sound of that! I've got 2 other bikes to ride but ya know as soon as this one is gone i'll regret it! I'll have to put this on the back burner for now as I have other project(s) to do. Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

Here's a pic of the 87 zl1000 I just picked up. It's an original owner, original tires, garage kept and 2,448 original miles. It hasn't run in 5 years, but by god it's gonna run tomorrow!

[86er]

Now that is a SCHWEEEEET bike!

Good score!

 

[Dano]

I'm in the middle of a complete teardown of my 84, doing frame maintenance, second gear fix, front progressive springs, pretty much anything that needs attention. When I get done, the only thing I'll have to do next year is a re-paint and some chrome toys. These bikes are worth it, you don't want a 1300 motor, faster than a second gen but slower than the 83-85 1200 motors. Have fun with it!!!! Plenty of guys around hear to help you with the technical stuff, but doesn't sound like you'll need much.

 

Dan

[Condor]

you don't want a 1300 motor, faster than a second gen but slower than the 83-85 1200 motors. Have fun with it!!!!

 

Here's something I need to ask. Why is the 1200 faster than the 1300? The 1300 is a couple of ponies more, should have the same top end, but I keep hearing that the 1200 is faster. Why is that?? Is it gearing? Weight of the bike?? Camming?? What??? Since just about everything in the motor is interchangeable, I'd really like to know what the story is....

[Dano]

I think Squeeze will jump in and explain the nuances, but if memory serves correct(??????) I believe cam profile is different maybe timing. Haven't heard anything about gearing. I've also heard that the 83's were faster than the 84-85 bikes, too. Definately cams on that, as the 83 used the vmax lobe profile, I believe. (Let'em chew over that for awhile!).

 

Hope this cornfuses you more,

 

Dan

[Condor]

I think Squeeze will jump in and explain the nuances, but if memory serves correct(??????) I believe cam profile is different maybe timing. Haven't heard anything about gearing. I've also heard that the 83's were faster than the 84-85 bikes, too. Definately cams on that, as the 83 used the vmax lobe profile, I believe. (Let'em chew over that for awhile!).

 

Hope this cornfuses you more,

 

Dan

 

Nah, not confused, just wanted more than hear-say about what makes them faster like everyone seems to be saying. I'm getting the impression that an '83 owner might have started the rumor??? and everyone picked up on it and now it's considered fact....but no one can say for sure. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the story..... Fact or fiction. I did find a report on the 1200 and 1300 bikes but they failed to give a 1/4 mile time on the 1300, just the 1200 at 12.69/103.92. I can see where the 1300 may be slower due to the bikes weight and load capicity, even with the extra 7hp, but if a 1300 were stuffed into a 1200 frame, would it be faster yet???

[Squeeze]

Hey Folks, this might get into a long and not so 'on Topic' Discussion ....

 

Let's keep this short and i try to list my 'educated guessed' two Cents.

 

The '83 was the Mother of all the V4's and it was born in Days, where Pollution and Fuel Economy was not high up in the Books.

Therefore Yammi did bring up very much most Power they can have in a Mass Production and without much of long Term Knowledge about Durability

These early Cams have a bit more aggressive Timing and a slightly higher Lobe. When they brought the Vmax Motor in '85 these Cams are known as the best and most powerful stock Cams ever made. These Vmax Cams have their base on early 1Gen Cams even if the Vmax Cams have a even higher Lobe to deliver more Mixture into the Combustion Chamber when the V-Boost is open. I even bought a '85 Motor just for getting such a Set of Cams for my upcoming Project Engine.

 

The '83 Venture has had the YICS System, which was discontinued in '84 or '85.

 

The '83 Model have different Springs on the Diaphragm, different Lifter Borings in the Slides, other Jetting.

 

Even if the Carbs Diameter remained unchanged for all 1Gens, there are a Lot of changes made over the Years. The Dimensions of the Fuel Jets are, compared to the only 1 mm larger Vmax Carbs, a Lot more conservative.

 

The Cams of the 1Gen, as far as i know, have been slightly changed in the '84 Model, then for '86 1300cc Motor(stock '85 Vmax Cams or sightly detuned), then in 1990 when Pollution was getting more into Play. All changes where not the Best for Power and Torque.

 

And, not to forget, they changed Spark Advance on the '90 Model. They early Bikes have up to 42* Advance, since 1990 it's only 33*.

 

All in all, i think, if some say the early 1200cc Bikes are faster, it might be dued to all these minor changes and the Difference in Weight which the 1300cc Bikes suffer from. The 100cc Gain in Displacement went straight into Torque, the 8 hp more Yammi states for the 1300cc Motor are pretty much only on Paper. Gearing hasn't changed over all Years.

 

 

(Maybe it's Time to start a Wikipedia about all the Differences and Cross Parts over all Years, just before these Informations are lost forever. I've been thinking about such a Database since mid of last Year. A Lot of Informations are here in the Board, but buried inbetween Posts.)

[Dano]

Great reply Squeeze, just what us true gearheads need and want to know. If we are to ever keep all this knowledge straight, with an easy to interface with database, then the wikipedia thing might be the best. I do my best work when I am armed with all the knowledge needed, and that's why I spend so much time on here reading the posts. Thanks again Squeeze, I'm sure we'll be pulling more info out of you in the future!!!!

 

Dan:bighug:

[Guest Bigin]

The speed of the earlier First Gens is highly exaggerated yet technically true. Sorry.

 

The 2 are so equal that it would depend on miriad of conditions and bike prep that exist on the day of the performance test and of course the rider.

 

Since these 2 test were not side by side and 7 years apart, it would probably be anybody's race.

 

Here are numbers from magazine tests;

 

1983 Cycle Magazine for 1983 XVZ12TK 1/4 mile: 12.69 @ 103.92 mph

 

1990 Cycle Magazine for 1990 XVZ13DA 1/4 mile: 12.49 @ 103.10 mph

 

In comparison to the other makes the Venture was described as the Hot Rod Luxo Tourer, and the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing, and was considerably faster than its counter parts.

[Condor]

The speed of the earlier First Gens is highly exaggerated yet technically true. Sorry.

 

The 2 are so equal that it would depend on miriad of conditions and bike prep that exist on the day of the performance test and of course the rider.

 

Since these 2 test were not side by side and 7 years apart, it would probably be anybody's race.

 

Here are numbers from magazine tests;

 

1983 Cycle Magazine for 1983 XVZ12TK 1/4 mile: 12.69 @ 103.92 mph

 

1990 Cycle Magazine for 1990 XVZ13DA 1/4 mile: 12.49 @ 103.10 mph

 

In comparison to the other makes the Venture was described as the Hot Rod Luxo Tourer, and the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing, and was considerably faster than its counter parts.

 

Thanks for the technical info Squeeze and the performance results Bigin. That's what I kinda suspected. Even with all the tweeking and twisting over the years there's very little difference between them. .2 sec and less than 1 mph. Put some weight on either one and it's gonna loose in a match race on any given day. With the added low end torque of the 1300 it probably would make a slightly better bike for trailering and handling weight even with the extra 32# as the extra 8 horse is close to a 10% increase of horse power. Where I'm going, and maybe turning this thread back to topic is that replacing the 1200 with the 1300 might be the best way to go. Cost and performance wise.....

[bongobobny]

In the mean time, if he decides to part it out, dibs on the fairings...

[GeorgeS]

Also, the Shape of the bags, and trunk, might have some effect on Air Drag. Expecially the saddle bags, larger size might increase the aerodynamic drag of the newer models. Just a thought.

[Condor]

Also, the Shape of the bags, and trunk, might have some effect on Air Drag. Expecially the saddle bags, larger size might increase the aerodynamic drag of the newer models. Just a thought.

 

I thought of that too George, but figured the rider...'specially big ones... cause more drag then the bags.....

[Guest Bigin]

Have misc other info from magazine tests of this bike ove the years should someone ask.

 

Cant post here or anywhere, due to the copyright issues, already checked on that, but can provide specific info if anyone asks for it in a post, and of course, its in an article i have