RSV Electrical Capacity Info

[V7Goose]

Note: This post is kinda long, but not too technical(except for the very end).

 

There has been a lot of discussion in the past about the amount of reserve electrical capacity on an RSV for accessories, although most of the detailed facts were BC and no longer available for review. Some folks have glibly stated that the RSV has "lots" of extra electrical power available (with which I completely DISagree). So I thought I would publish some real world observations without a lot of stats to interpret.

 

My 2005 QuickSilver has quite a few added lights, but with the exception of 4 small 3 watt instrument bulbs, all of them are LEDs, so they do not significantly increase the total load. My Driving lights are stock Yamaha accessories with original bulbs. I have both an ammeter (which allows me to see absolute proof if current is going in-to or out-of the battery at any moment, and a digital volt meter that reads to the tenth of a volt. I also have a tach.

 

Most of you know that these bikes have four individual carb heaters, 15 watts each, for a total of 60 watts, which is a significant load. I don't know the trigger temp for the heaters, but it seems to be around the low 60s. The thermal switch is under the rear battery covers, so engine heat causes them to be shut off after warm-up unless the temp is quite a bit lower. When trying to figure out how much extra load you can add to an RSV, you need to factor in this 60 watt load if you are going to be riding in any cool or cold weather. Obviously important if you are going to use heated clothing!

 

To recap, the electrical load on my bike is almost stock. I am experimenting with a set of grip heaters that pull about 2 amps/25 watts. I know they are not malfunctioning because they are wired through a 3 amp fuse which has not blown.

 

Today, the temp was right around 30 degrees as I headed to work - cold enough to guarantee the carb heaters never shut off from engine heat. I ride about 25 miles, so this is far enough to ensure the current drain from starting the bike is completely replaced by the time I get to work, giving me the opportunity to observe the charging system both with a battery taking light charge, then a fully charged battery.

 

Bottom line: with the driving lights on and the grip heaters on but headlight on low beam, the RSV can just barely handle the charging requirements of a normal battery in good condition at engine speeds above 1,800 RPM. Turning off the driving lights (total load reduction of 70 watts) makes a BIG difference. Below 1,800 RPM with driving lights and grip heaters on, the ammeter shows the charging system cannot handle the load and the battery is discharging. Hitting the brakes dramatically increases that discharge, and brakes with turn signals even more.

 

This means the RSV has very little practical reserve charging capacity during cold weather unless you turn off the driving lights!

 

Here are the technical details to go with those observations:

• At high idle after starting (about 1200 RPM, while the battery is trying to take a charge, with lights and grip heaters but no brakes or signals), the system voltage reads only about 10.9 volts, and the ammeter shows the battery is discharging. Raising the RPM close to 2,000 pushes the voltage up to 11.7, and the ammeter shows 0, meaning that the charging system is handling all the lights and heaters, but nothing (or only minor amount) is left to recharge the battery.
  
• Over 2,000 RPM shortly after starting (all conditions the same as above), the system voltage raises to about 12.3 and the ammeter begins showing a slight current flowing into the battery.
  
• After the battery is fully recharged, the system voltage at idle with lights and grip heaters but without brakes or signals is about 11.9, and the ammeter still shows a slight discharge. Hitting the brakes at idle drops the voltage to 10.9.
  
• Fully recharged battery with lights and grip heaters on, normal cruising RPM, the system voltage registers about 13.2.
  
• With a fully recharged battery, turning off only the grip heaters at idle pushes the voltage back up to about 12.8, and turning off the driving lights gets it all the way back up to about 13.5.

This test is admittedly unscientific, and all the voltages were based only on memory from this morning's ride (not carefully written down under precise conditions), but I hope that information at leasts gives you something to base your decisions on when deciding on additional accessories. Good luck,

Goose

[Carbon_One]

Goose whether you consider this info unscientific or not, it IS good info none the less. My 05 has mostly a stock configuration as yours is too. I'd guess most of us here are running their bikes pretty much stock as well. I do have a bunch of extra lights on the back of mine but like you am running leds for all of them & stock passing bulbs up front.

While I don't have an ammeter mounted my voltage gauge has given me similar results as you have stated. Nor do I have any heated equipment to add to the electrical load. But those passing lamps will draw a batteries voltage down while idling at a light with say the brake lights on. Don't know if it matches your obversations on not as I never tried to memorize the numbers as you have done.

All the same you have a good & worthy post here.

Now does anyone know if there's an alternative method to boost the bikes electrical output? Maybe a different stator?

Larry

[Marcarl]

Sounds to me like your stator maybe not working quite right. You should have more juice than that.

[V7Goose]

Sounds to me like your stator maybe not working quite right. You should have more juice than that.

I deliberately did not start listing system specifications and calculations, but if you care to do that, you will find out that what I reported is pretty much as expected. These bikes do NOT have significant excess charging capacity when the carb heaters and after-market Yamaha driving lights are on. I did the research and the math on this two years ago when I bought the bike, but not everyone wants to look at it that way. That kind of detail was on this sight before the crash, and you may still be able to find it over on the Venturers site.

 

Anecdotally, this also might help to explain whey Yamaha only puts 35 watt lights in their driving lights when the majority of those lights are 50 watts.

Goose

[BuddyRich]

Goose, Just checked and the thermal switch is set to kick on at 68 or lower and to kick off at 79 according to the manual. Could be because the carbs may want to ice up when being run hard as gas has a cooling effect during evaporation.

 

I run a Gerbings heated vest and 3 headlights. Can't run the vest and the high beams for a long time even at highway speeds. But I have never run down the battery either during normal operation.

[V7Goose]

BuddyRich, Your comment about the vest and the lights seems consistent with both my experiences and calculations. This bike is running close to the full charging capacity without adding many extras.

 

As for running down the battery, that would take quite some time, since the actual current draw out of the battery while the bike is running is only the delta above the total charging capacity at a specific RPM. I don't consider actually running out of juice as a realistic risk from a day with all the stuff running, but if the battery is not being fully charged for any specific length of time, or repeatedly throughout the season, the life expectancy of the battery is materially reduced. This is especially true if it is also experiencing below freezing temperatures.

 

My only point to the membership here is to be aware of the limitations on these bikes and not blindly assume that it has "lots of charging capacity" just because someone said so. The charging system has reasonable capacity, but not the extra headroom of some other bikes. I'm not even asking anyone to believe me, but at least I have given y'all some additional information that should cause you to look into the situation further. If you know the limitations and have the tools to monitor the system (at least a volt meter), then you can easily manage the current drain so that it does not have a negative effect on your machine. Ride Safe,

Goose

 

BTW - based on nothing more than watching my gauges during all sorts of riding conditions over 30,000 miles, the carb heaters on QuickSilver do not appear to stay on for very long if the temperatures are over 50 degrees. As I stated earlier, I attribute that to engine heat and the protected location of the temp sensor. I usually run with my driving lights on at all times, and I can tell immediately at idle if the lights and the carb heaters are both running. It is not a big difference without any additional load, but it is still obvious.

[Squidley]

Very good post Goose, lots of info to be thought upon. In my mind it begs the question of, did Yamaha build in the capacity to increase the charging system? or is there another company that has a larger stator with more charging capacity?

 

I like more lights just for the fact to be seen and it's somewhat of a drag to have to start changing over non essentials to LED's to ease up the burden on the system. You would have thought that when they redid the RSV that they would have learned from their past mistakes with the 1st gens charging system

[Midrsv]

Good timing on this thread. I received a heated jacket liner for Christmas and just hooked it up about an hour ago. While I did check voltages across the battery at idle and at about 2000 rpm with the jacket on and off. At idle I measured 13V and at 2000 rpm 14.1 V with the standard low beam and Yamaha passing lamps on. With the jacket liner, which is rated at 100 watts at 13.8V, the voltage drops to 12.2V at idle and 13.5V to 13.7V at 2000 rpm. If you reduce the heat of the jacket the jacket controller cycles the power on an off. So if I run it on a lower setting the drain only occurs 25% to 50% of the cycle. As it cycled on an off I did noticed that the headlight would significantly dim.

 

What is the minimum voltage to consider the system to be in a charging state?

 

Dennis

[stardbog]

I Dont Have any passing lights, and replace turn signals , and breake lights with LED's, I'm Able to Hook up 2 full Widder sets of heated clothing each draw about 100W, and have not discharge system. Royal Ster Dont have great charging system Max output is about 400 W. Not quite enough for all gadgets, I Like to see one of those hi output alternators like available for V-Stars

[Bvinson]

Very good post Goose, lots of info to be thought upon. In my mind it begs the question of, did Yamaha build in the capacity to increase the charging system? or is there another company that has a larger stator with more charging capacity?

 

I like more lights just for the fact to be seen and it's somewhat of a drag to have to start changing over non essentials to LED's to ease up the burden on the system. You would have thought that when they redid the RSV that they would have learned from their past mistakes with the 1st gens charging system

 

 

I have called or emailed every aftermarket stator company I could find. None of them makes a replacement stator for the second gen. My second question was do you plan to? Answer was not good.. none of them even plan on building one. I guess you could buy one off ebay(hard to find I have been looking) and take it and get it rewound for higher output.

[Rick Butler]

Goose,

 

This is a problem that I have been meaning to resolve for some time now, but like Bill said none of the aftermarket stator companies make a higher output stator for the Royal Stars in any year. They make them for the 1st gens but for some reason something changed in the design when Yamaha changed up their V-4 in the RSV.

 

Now I have been in contact with the engineers at ElectroSport (fna, Electrex) who have been making good stators for years. But what they need is an old stock stator to tear down and rebuild so they can build some. I guess it's like any industry, if they don't have a large demand, they think there is no market yet.

 

But running 2 electric vests and high output lights will run down any Venture battery, 1st or 2nd gen.

 

So is there anyone out there that can afford to take their stator cover off and remove the stator and send to these guys? In return, they will send you a brand new high output stator. If I didn't live in Texas where I can ride all year long, I would have sent them one years ago. In fact I have even contacted several Yamaha shops to see about getting one that has been replaced under warrenty, but for some reason Yamaha wants them all back? ElectroSports web site is:

 

http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_electrical_home.html

 

In fact here is the information I received from one of the engineers regarding building one:

 

Rick

 

Yes I need to tear it up, It will take about 30-60 day before I had new ones, And about 30-40 for a preproduction unit, I could supply you that one, If you needed it.

 

How much more output are people needing.

 

Paul Brent

Electrosport Industries

615 S Tremont Street

Oceanside CA 92054

PH+1 (760) 433-0184

FX +1 (760) 433-1052

Web www.electrosport.com

Email paul@electrosport.com

 

 

Hi Rick

 

Do you have a burned out stator for the Royal Star, If you do then this would speed up us making a new one. If you could supply us a used one then as soon as we have the production units done I can supply you a new one for free.

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Paul Brent

Electrosport Industries

615 S Tremont Street

Oceanside CA 92054

PH+1 (760) 433-0184

FX +1 (760) 433-1052

Web

www.electrosport.com

Email

paul@electrosport.com

 

 

There you have what I know,

 

Rick

[Monsta]

Ron Ayers microfiche lists a stator at about $151. Not bad really.

 

I might be willing just to buy a new one to send to these guys to see what they can do. Questions, though.

 

1. What is an ideal wattage output? 600W, 750W ??

 

2. What else has to be done to the bike to make this higher output stator work. Will anything else need to be changed to allow it to function properly & safely?

 

Funny...I really have no need for more watts as I do not run electrical clothing or grips, high-powered, multiple lights, decorative lighting, big-thumpin'-stereo etc. I just like having more than I need...just in case.

[Squidley]

Rick,

 

Thats great info and as soon as Paul gets back from holidays I'll give him a call and see what we need to do. I'm not going to be riding for at least 3 more months and I could supply him with the stator off my '99 for rebuilding and some R&D.

 

I'll let you all know what I come up with

[BuddyRich]

I think another 100 watts would be good. But at some point were gonna start burnin up rectifiers. I don't know what the current rectifiers limits are, but that is something that needs to be considered when pumping more amps thru it.

[GeorgeS]

Is it really necessary to have the Carb Heaters working after the Engine has warmed up to running temp ???

 

If not, then why not Install a switch to simply Turn them Off after you have reached running temp, no matter what the outside air temp is.

 

???

[V7Goose]

Lots of good discussion here. I have planned on putting a carb heater cut-out switch on QuickSilver to experiment with, but just have not gotten to it yet.

 

I don't have enough factual knowledge about the RSV stator and charging systems to really comment authoritatively on options to solve our problem. I understand that one of the problems is that the RSV stator uses permanent magnets instead of electromagnets, so this severely limits any option to build a high-output replacement. I contacted a company out in CA a couple of years ago about a replacement for the Royal Star (might be the same one Rich mentioned?), and they said they planned to release one "next year." I never heard anything else from them, so I assume "next year" ain't here yet! Good luck,

Goose

[stardbog]

This is great discusion, I'll be happy to upgrade my charging system. who ever upgrade first let us know. We are spending $$$$ on chrome and accessories, this upgrade will be mast on my list.

[Freebird]

A company named Rick's has been specializing in motorsport stators for some time now. I've just sent him an email asking what the possibilities are of him building a high output stator for our bikes. I'll let you know what I hear back from him. Here is the web site.

 

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

[Snarley Bill]

if anyone comes up with a company to make a high output stator,count me in.i think the carb heaters are needed. gas mileage would probably suffer dramatically in cooler weather.i just put grip warmers on mine and ran the battery down running a short test on them.i hooked my charger up to the heaters to check the current draw and they drew 3.5 on high and 3.1 on low.haven't tried them with the engine on .wanted to ride and make sure my battery was charging properly. the charging system is definately not adequate.

[Bvinson]

A company named Rick's has been specializing in motorsport stators for some time now. I've just sent him an email asking what the possibilities are of him building a high output stator for our bikes. I'll let you know what I hear back from him. Here is the web site.

 

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

 

Ricks was one of the vendors I contacted last year. Their answer was no plans in the near future. Maybe that has changed. Buddy Rich mentioned the rectifiers/regulator. Well there are options in that area. One of the outcomes from talking with the different companies is that there are a lot of different regulators out there that will work.

[pegscraper]

I'm one who can attest that the carb heaters aren't good for much, except maybe under the most adverse conditions. My '96 Royal Star doesn't have heated carburetors stock, and when I put the 32mm carbs on them I didn't wire them up either because there was nothing to connect them to. All I can say is that I have ridden several times in 20* weather and never had any problems with carburetor icing.

[Tartan Terror]

I for one would get in line to buy one. Im sure if any of the two mentioned knew how much interest there is they would atleast offer the service of the upgrade. For them lots of money to be made!!! let me know how both work out!! and Im watching the thread.

[kantornado]

I am glad this thread is here.I would like to add this to my list of things to get.

I don't like running the battery down.

I had to raise the RPM's on the 83 to run the driving lights and pull the trailer ran a battery down in heavy night time traffic.

 

I do not want this type problem with my G2...................Ron

[pegscraper]

I'm not sure I quite finished my thought there last evening. I wasn't feeling real well then. My point was that for those who have had the idea of gaining a little more wattage capability by installing a switch to keep the carb heaters off, I think it's a real good idea. I've never seen any need for the carb heaters, and I'd sure rather have more capability to drive passing lamps or heated gear. If worse comes to worse and you ever have an issue with carb icing, switch them on for a while. But that's not even an option for me, as my bike doesn't have them.

[Freebird]

I received the following reply to my email to Rick's Stators. Maybe there is hope. I'll let you know more after I talk to him on the phone. How much additional capacity to you guys think we need? It will be limited of course by the number of windings and etc. that they can fit.

 

Here is the response:

 

Dear Don,

Thank you for the e-mail. I spoke with Rick about it and he asked me to get a good contact phone number from you so that he can give you a call. He did some preliminary research, but he wanted to talk to you as well on this stator. Please let me know the best number to reach you at and what times are best.

Thanks,

Amanda

Amanda Shaw

Marketing & PR Administrator

Rick's Motorsport Electrics