cowpuc Posted July 9, 2014 #1 Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) I know most of you have already found the perfect tires for your bikes and stick to what ever brand that may be and I TOTALLY get that.. I tend to enjoy living a little more dangerously, another flaw in my charector, and like knowing first hand whether or not things are as advertised, yep, even in tires.. That said, I have had my share of flat tires, know first hand that sick feeling of a flat tire on a loaded tour bike, have had to change tires in some less than desirable places with less than desireable tools BUT, thats all part of the adventure we call motorcycle touring.. Also,, I have had to pay the price of being bent over by some out of town bike shop ripped off artist charging 3 times the price for a stinkin 404 too, not fun but thats life on the road.. Of course, I also have had the privilage of dealing with places like Jims in Johnson City tennesee who sold me an E2 at dealer cost and gave me the grand tour of their upstairs bike museum cause they felt as bad about the piece of steel going thru my brand new Shinko as I did,, or maybe they just liked Tippy n me... Good with the bad makes for a GREAT trip,, especially if you focus on the good and let the bad take care of itself, a mind game some folks cant win. If your still reading this commentary your probably a little like me and interested in whats out there in less expensive, good value tires... Or,, maybe your some sicko waiting to hear about some wacko biker who fell on his bike cause he chose to try another cheap tire,,, lord I hope that aint the case! Regardless of why you are reading this PLEASE READ THRU THE ENTIRE STORY BELOW, DONT QUIT HALF WAY, THIS IS IMPORTANT! I stuck a brand new metz 880 on the rear of the bike just before heading west back in May. I have made several trips to the west coast and have NEVER had a rear tire survive the torture of my desert touring.. One tire out, one tire back has been my experience.. I have used everything from Avon to Pirellies and they all seem to come in the same,, no tires I have tried seem to like the desert heat like I do! The Metz was amazing in its wear. By the time we got to Sacramento it still had 1/3 of its tread left! I was VERY impressed. Now,, knowing I had to go back home at some point I did get another tire ordered BUT, I was confidant enough in the metz that I chose to complete our tour of Oregon and Washington on the metz before swapping it out.. just before leaving The Dalles VentureWest Rally, I checked both my tires and my dear friend, Sargent Coffeys tires, cause I love em. The metz looked good with very little additional wear on it.. Tip n I came back to Sac the long way, got lost a little (had fun!), did ride some more HOT pavement.. What I discovered when we got back GAVE ME THE CREEPS! That metz shedded its outer core like a dog sheds water! NO WARNING! PLEASE REREAD THAT AND REMEMBER WHAT I JUST WROTE! You ever saw those chunks of truck tires laying on the highway? I was always told they come from retreads.. that being said, and judging from what I saw under the protruding tread of the metz I gotta wonder if metz and retreads are synonomis.. Shortly after discovering this I posted some pics of what I had found.. A very close friend of mine and person with outstanding mechanical ability responded to that post with a learned warning about Metzler Tires. Squidley commented about an experience he and Lonna had had that sounded almost life threatening.. He also commented something along the line of staying away from Metzler tires permanently.. I gotta say,, I am there with you Squidley,, that was one ugly situation developing with that metz! Before I left for The Dalles, I jumped online and looked for my next tire to torture.. I noticed this brand called Full Bore at a very reasonable price. Seems like 75 bucks shipped is where it fell.. I called and talked to the folks at JCCYCLE, I inquired about the load capacity of the 140 touring tire from Full Bore. The tech told me that the book stated 903 pounds, sounded good! Got back online and ordered one.. when I returned from Venturewest with my retread coming apart the Full Bore was waiting. I had to use a wedge and a sledge hammer to break the bead on the metz, stay away from the wheel if you ever try this, assisted by c-clamps.. Opened the box with the new Ful Bore and immediatly discovered that the load capacity on the tire stated 756 pounds,, bummer dude.. tire looked beefy,, made in Korea (better than china IMHO),,, WHAT TO WHAT TO DO....Decided,, what da heck what da hay,, give it try.. The worst that could happen is it will fall apart from the heat and I will be stuck paying 3 times the price for another 404,, OR,, maybe find another Jims! I kept a VERY close eye on the FULL BORE! From the heat of the Utah desert to the elevation changes of Glacier, thru the back country dirt roads of Montana and up the twisties of the Black Hills,, IT DID GREAT! I checked air pressure every morning cold and it was consistant. I was and am impressed! Sitting in the garage now, after completeing its mission, it has less tread on it than the metz had when it came apart, it cost less than half of what I paid for the metz, it handled the twisties really well (I dont ride em like some of you harder riders but do tend to lean er down once in a while) and it got Tippy and I home safely from a very fun ride! I know your all bored to death now BUT, I gotta put a plug in here for these cheap Conti Tours too.. I had a chance to grab a couple front mount Contis this spring for about 70 bucks each shipped.. GLAD I GRABED EM! Stuck one on the front before we left.. WOW,, that front tire went thru all that and is showing no sign of dipping, cupping or funny wear.. held the road great and still has some of its little mold nips between the tread! AMAZING! Dragonrider,, if you read all that you probably know I typed it on the tablet,, sorry for any mistakes,, feel free to correct any typos ya find.... Tips n my daughter took the laptop away from me... Get out and wear out some tires folks! Puc Edited July 9, 2014 by cowpuc
etcswjoe Posted July 9, 2014 #2 Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks for the write up and yes I actually read the whole thing.
EasyRider Posted July 9, 2014 #4 Posted July 9, 2014 And looked at the pictures too.... Just to find you didn't mention ICE CREAM once or post a picture of the world famous burger you came across in some dusty backwater rarely visited population 25 town. Other than that it was a good article so I went out and kicked the $125 tire on my bike Now to go to the ER for an ace bandage
videoarizona Posted July 9, 2014 #5 Posted July 9, 2014 Well, I'm getting cupping on my Rear Metz. Was running 42 pounds pressure in tire. Guess I'd better kick it up to 50lbs and watch it carefully. Thanks Puc and everyone else for the write ups on the Metz tires!
Prairiehammer Posted July 9, 2014 #6 Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) feel free to correct any typos ya find.... Puc A full report on Full Bore tires, Pucs perspective... ________________________________________ I know most of you have already found the perfect tires for your bikes and stick to whatever brand that may be and I TOTALLY get that. However, I tend to enjoy living a little more dangerously (another flaw in my character) and like knowing first hand whether or not things are as advertised. Yep, even in tires. That said, I have had my share of flat tires; know firsthand that sick feeling of a flat tire on a loaded tour bike; have had to change tires in some less than desirable places, with less than desirable tools; that’s all part of the adventure we call motorcycle touring. And I have had to pay the price of being bent over by an out of town bike shop rip off artist charging 3 times the price for a stinking 404, too. Not fun, but that’s life on the road. Conversely, I’ve also had the privilege of dealing with places like Jim’s in Johnson City, Tennessee. He sold me a Dunlop E2 at dealer cost and gave me the grand tour of their upstairs bike museum because he felt as bad about the piece of steel going thru my brand new Shinko as I did. Or maybe, he just liked Tippy ‘n me. Experiencing the good with the bad makes for a GREAT trip, especially if you focus on the good and let the bad take care of itself; a mind game some folks can’t win. If you’re still reading this commentary, you are probably a little like me: interested in what’s out there in less expensive, good value tires. Or, maybe you are some sicko waiting to hear about some wacko biker who fell off his bike ‘cause he chose to try another cheap tire. (Lord, I hope that ain’t the case!) Regardless of why you are reading this, PLEASE READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE STORY BELOW. DON’T QUIT HALF WAY. THIS IS IMPORTANT! Back in May, just before heading west, I stuck a brand new Metzeler 880 on the rear of the bike. I have made several trips to the west coast and have NEVER had a rear tire survive the torture of my desert touring. My experience has been one tire to get out there and another tire to get back home. I have used everything from Avon to Pirellis and they all seem to come in the same. None of tires seemed to like the desert heat like I do! The Metzeler was amazing in its wear. By the time we got to Sacramento it still had 1/3 of its tread left! I was VERY impressed. Acknowledging that I had to go back home at some point, I ordered another tire; however, I had enough confidence in the Metz to complete our tour of Oregon and Washington before replacing it. Before leaving The Dalles and the VentureWest Rally, I inspected both my tires, as well as my dear friend, Sergeant Coffey’s tires, because I love him. The Metz looked good with very little additional wear on it. Tip and I returned to Sacramento the long way, had fun getting a little lost and rode some HOT pavement. What I discovered when we got back GAVE ME THE CREEPS! The Metzeler had shed its outer core like a dog sheds water! There had been NO WARNING! PLEASE REREAD THAT AND REMEMBER WHAT I JUST WROTE! Have you ever seen those chunks of truck tires laying on the highway? I was always told they come from retreads. What I saw under the protruding tread of the Metz, made me wonder if “Metzeler” and “retreads” are synonymous. Shortly after discovering the tire condition, I posted some pics of the failure. A very close friend with outstanding mechanical ability responded to that post with a learned warning about Metzeler Tires. Squidley commented about an experience he and Lonna had that sounded almost life threatening. I’m paraphrasing here: “Stay the heck away from Metzeler tires! Never again!” I have to say, Squidley, I am there with you. That was one ugly situation developing with that Metz! Before we had left for The Dalles, I had jumped online and looked for my next tire to torture. I noticed a brand called “Full Bore” for a very reasonable price, about 75 bucks shipped. I called the folks at JCCYCLE and inquired about the load capacity of the 140 size touring tire from Full Bore. The tech said the book stated 903 pounds; sounded good to me! Got back online and ordered one. When we returned from Venturewest, (with my retread coming apart), the Full Bore was waiting. I used C-clamps, a wedge and a sledge hammer to break the bead on the Metz, (stay away from the wheel if you ever try this). I opened the box containing the new Full Bore and immediately discovered that the load capacity on the tire stated 756 pounds. Bummer dude. However, the tire looked beefy and was made in Korea (better than china IMHO). WHAT TO DO? WHAT TO DO? Finally, I decided: “What da heck, what da hay, give it try”. The worst that could happen is it will fall apart from the heat and I will be stuck paying three times the price for another Dunlop 404, OR, OTOH, maybe find another Jims! I kept a VERY close eye on the FULL BORE! From the heat of the Utah desert to the elevation changes of Glacier, through the back country dirt roads of Montana and up the twisties of the Black Hills, IT DID GREAT! I checked air pressure every morning cold and it was consistent. I was and am impressed! Sitting in the garage now, after completing its mission, the Full Bore has less tread than the Metzeler when it came apart and yet it cost less than half of what I paid for the Metz, it handled the twisties really well (I don’t ride like some of you hard riders, but I do tend to lean her down once in a while) and it got Tippy and me home safely after a very fun ride! I know all of you are bored to death by now, but I must put a plug in here for these cheap Conti Tours, too. I had a chance to grab a couple front mount Contis this past Spring for about 70 bucks each, shipped. I AM GLAD I GRABBED EM! I installed one of the Conti Tours on the front before we left. WOW, that tire endured the arduous trip and is showing no sign of dipping, cupping or funny wear. The Conti held the road great and still has some of its little mold nips between the tread! AMAZING! Dragonrider, if you read all this, you probably know I typed it on the tablet; sorry for any mistakes, feel free to correct any typos you find. Tips and my daughter took the laptop away from me... Get out and wear out some tires folks! Puc Edited July 9, 2014 by Prairiehammer
MiCarl Posted July 9, 2014 #7 Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks for the write up. I offer Full Bore tires here in my little shop on the park. So far I've only had a few sport bikes try them. Their reviews have also been favorable. You don't say which Full bore tire you got, but I assume it was the M-66 Tour King? Their literature lists it as load index 77 (908 lbs.).
cowpuc Posted July 9, 2014 Author #8 Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks for the write up. I offer Full Bore tires here in my little shop on the park. So far I've only had a few sport bikes try them. Their reviews have also been favorable. You don't say which Full bore tire you got, but I assume it was the M-66 Tour King? Their literature lists it as load index 77 (908 lbs.). Carl, you can chalk up a genuine tour bike to your list now brother! That tire worked awesome! I gotta add, we hit hole in the concrete out in desert temps at high speed that sent tippy against my back and startled the daylights out of me.. it was a situation where I never saw it coming, I dont go lookin for objects to hit and normally am able to thumb steer around even the slightest abnormalities,, this was a bad one! right after hitting it I told tip that we HAD to have just lost our cheapy Full Bore tire.. Slowing down the tire felt good, told her to sit still we were gonna be riding down another flat.. got down to around 20, where a flat starts the process of putting ya sideways,, NOTHING! Stopped the bike, tire looked like new, no rim damage.. Looked the tire over closely, no apparent belt damage! Few days later we touring Glacier and Canada with that tire preforming flawlessly! Them Koreans got a believer with ol Puc! Its a m-66 touring as you mentioned. What you quoted is exactly what the tech at jccycle quoted.. here are some pics off the tire itself.. I dont know if the book is wrong or the tire stamp but I can assure you,, it did a fine job on 2 up, packed up tweeks right out on the desert floor! Got any vendors that need tires beta tested Carl let me know,, maybe we could work something out:rotf: As long as they aint metzlers of course,, me an Squid,, we know that routine!
cowpuc Posted July 9, 2014 Author #9 Posted July 9, 2014 And looked at the pictures too.... Just to find you didn't mention ICE CREAM once or post a picture of the world famous burger you came across in some dusty backwater rarely visited population 25 town. Other than that it was a good article so I went out and kicked the $125 tire on my bike Now to go to the ER for an ace bandage Oh man,, thanks Rick,, I almost blew it BIG TIME!! Tire mounting is always easier if your eating ice cream while your swapping tires.. I like to drip a little ice cream on the bead just before laying the spoons on the tire,, makes great tire lube.. Not to much though cause ya never wanna waste to much ice cream,, specially if its Banana Nut,, now Vanilla,, you can waste that stuff but not Nana Nut. Better? And hey Easyrider,,, sounds like you owe King Condor an apology,,, calling Carmicheal California a dusty backwater town,,, according to him some place right in his neighborhood IS where those World Famous burgers are!! I was only part way there with my cheese covered Shimmy burger or what ever it was.. I havent had one yet BUT I betcha that Condor is correct,, judging by the way he drank down all the fries and gravy up by Mt. Hood THAT MAN HAS GOT TO KNOW HIS BURGERS!! Dem was good fries and gravy werent they Jack!! Specially the special price ol Puc gottem for us for!!:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:
billmac Posted July 9, 2014 #10 Posted July 9, 2014 Ok. I read and looked at the tires. Now I'm thinking the way you go through rear tires why not use a car tire? Don't think it will hurt your image do you. No I don't have a ct on my RSTD.
icebrrg3rd Posted July 9, 2014 #11 Posted July 9, 2014 Don't know if I missed it, but what was the mileage you put on the Full Bore before you wore it out? -Andrew
Condor Posted July 9, 2014 #12 Posted July 9, 2014 Oh man,, thanks Rick,, I almost blew it BIG TIME!! Tire mounting is always easier if your eating ice cream while your swapping tires.. I like to drip a little ice cream on the bead just before laying the spoons on the tire,, makes great tire lube.. Not to much though cause ya never wanna waste to much ice cream,, specially if its Banana Nut,, now Vanilla,, you can waste that stuff but not Nana Nut. Better? And hey Easyrider,,, sounds like you owe King Condor an apology,,, calling Carmicheal California a dusty backwater town,,, according to him some place right in his neighborhood IS where those World Famous burgers are!! I was only part way there with my cheese covered Shimmy burger or what ever it was.. I havent had one yet BUT I betcha that Condor is correct,, judging by the way he drank down all the fries and gravy up by Mt. Hood THAT MAN HAS GOT TO KNOW HIS BURGERS!! Dem was good fries and gravy werent they Jack!! Specially the special price ol Puc gottem for us for!!:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf: Rick isn't that far off. With this drought we're in, NorCal is about to be blown away. My back yard looks like something out of the middle of Nevada. Water?? What's that...?? I went by Lake Shasta on the way back from The Dalles and it's empty. Our local water supply is just as bad, and we still have 2 1/2 months left before there's even a chance of rain. And the next time you're in town visiting Kinfolk I'll show you where to find the best burger known to the Almighty... I figure there's two types of burgers in this world. One is cheap and you eat it because you're starving and quit when you're full. The other is God food. Manna from Heaven.. Because it tastes so good, you can't stop eating... http://www.flaminggrillcafe.com/
MiCarl Posted July 9, 2014 #14 Posted July 9, 2014 Puc - I see the load rating. What is the designation on the tire: 140/90-16 77H or 140/90-16 75H
cowpuc Posted July 9, 2014 Author #15 Posted July 9, 2014 Ok. I read and looked at the tires. Now I'm thinking the way you go through rear tires why not use a car tire? Don't think it will hurt your image do you. No I don't have a ct on my RSTD. GOOD POINT,, I would love to give one a shot,, anyone out there know what tire brand and size will fit a 1st Gen? Certainly NO WAY would it hurt any image I have!! Don't know if I missed it, but what was the mileage you put on the Full Bore before you wore it out? -Andrew Good question Andrew!! Unfortunately, after 244256 miles and many many lube jobs on Tweeks speedo - including one earlier this spring, as we pulled into Dennison Texas my speedo did a huge wind up thing where the needle spun and went BOING and parts/pieces landed inside her speedo.. Unfortunately the odometer went too so I have no way of accurately knowing a mileage count.. I get some time I am going to get some kinda sorta figures from our fuel reciepts and than mapquest it off them.. On another note,, I really didnt want to let this cat out of the bag (about the speedo) online here because Tweeks won the "farthest distance traveled" award at the VentureWest Rally out in The Dalles Oregon. There were two lop eared varmints who was in charge out there, a couple of sly critters justly named King Lone Eagle and King Condor - NOT RELATED.. One of which used his Kingly powers to appoint himself as a court Judge for all contests, that would have been King Lone Eagle.. I kept my lips sealed during the contest awards about the speedo after Tweeks was awarded her just due cause I knew there would have been an investigation afterwards that may have turned into a dismantling of my bike to see if she had actually rolled to the rally - simular to a contested NASCAR race.. You would had have to have been there and experienced the motley group in attendance to understand that call on my part.. If I had to guess at this point I would between 3 and 4 thousand miles.. Puc - I see the load rating. What is the designation on the tire: 140/90-16 77H or 140/90-16 75H Ah ohhh,, think ol Pucsters about to get some schooling here... Never paid attention to those numbers,, I know it had MU85 or whatever it was on the tag which matched the original factory tire spec.. Gotta hunch my buddy MiCarl is about to tell me that the 77H/75H on these tires mean something... Ya know what,, I stuck part of the sticker from the tire on the back of tweeks trunk,, gonna go see if its still on there and snap a pic,, I will also roll er around and see if I can find this 77/75 number and take a pic of it too.. PAY ATTENTION HERE FOLKS,, BOUT TO CATCH OL PUC IN LEARNIN MODE..
cowpuc Posted July 9, 2014 Author #16 Posted July 9, 2014 Oh yea,, here we go,, the tire has 71H on it Carl,, I suppose that means less load capacity? Learn something new everyday if it does! It also does have mu85 on the sticker and on the tire.. I know I read in a manual many years ago that this was the tire designated for the 1st gen,, kinda always followed that rule.. as a follow up question for my teacher/friend in this case,, MiCarl, do you happen to know if Full Bore makes a 75 or 77H as well as the 71H? I only ask that cause it seems like I gave the guys at Jccycle, folks I purchased the tire from, the actual part number off thier web page when they looked the tire up.. could have easily been a miscommunication on my part.. Thanks for your assistance Carl, this is VERY important stuff to know and YOU are a great teacher! puc
Peder_y2k Posted July 9, 2014 #17 Posted July 9, 2014 http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/docs/Street-Tire-Load-Ratings.pdf
Peder_y2k Posted July 10, 2014 #18 Posted July 10, 2014 Here's a webpage explaining tire wear.......so it's time for class. http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/index.html -Pete, in Tacoma WA USA
billmac Posted July 10, 2014 #19 Posted July 10, 2014 May have to go to the dark side to find the answer for size if no one here knows. I've just read that they use rear car tires from bf Goodrich, nexan or nankang brands.
Bodaggit23 Posted July 10, 2014 #20 Posted July 10, 2014 Can't find a "JCCycle". Did you mean "J&P Cycle"?
MiCarl Posted July 10, 2014 #21 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) 71 = 761 lbs. 77 = 908 lbs. Their literature says the 140/90-B16 is a 77. But notice the "B", that indicates a belted tire which typically has a higher load index. Their literature doesn't list a plain vanilla 140/90-16. Clearly the product and marketing departments dropped the ball on communications. Yamaha calls for a 71 load index. But they only list the carrying capacity of the motorcycle at about 350lbs. I know I exceed the 350 lbs. That's one of the things I like about the Kenda Kruz, it's a 77. BTW, because I know people are wondering, decoding your tire: 140/90-16 71H 140 = width in mm. 90 = height is 90% of width, or 126mm 16 = wheel diameter in inches (we wouldn't want to stay with one measuring system...........) 71 = load index. 71 = 761 lbs. H = speed index. H = 130 mph. So theoretically your tire, loaded at 761 lbs., would last for awhile at 130 mph. That presumes it's inflated to its maximum pressure, the road isn't too hot, etc. What we don't know is what "awhile" means at Full Bore, it could be 1 mile or 10,000.......... Edited July 10, 2014 by MiCarl
Peder_y2k Posted July 10, 2014 #22 Posted July 10, 2014 Can't find a "JCCycle". Did you mean "J&P Cycle"? http://www.jcmotors.com/full-bore-usa-m-66-tour-king-rear-tire-20502-p http://www.fullboretires.com/cruiser.html
Bodaggit23 Posted July 10, 2014 #23 Posted July 10, 2014 http://www.jcmotors.com/full-bore-usa-m-66-tour-king-rear-tire-20502-p http://www.fullboretires.com/cruiser.html Thank you! That's quite a sale...I wish they made a front WWW that fit my bike
cowpuc Posted July 10, 2014 Author #24 Posted July 10, 2014 Can't find a "JCCycle". Did you mean "J&P Cycle"? Ooppsss,, my bad,, read Petes response below, once again one of ol pucs buddies has his back.. 71 = 761 lbs. 77 = 908 lbs. Their literature says the 140/90-B16 is a 77. But notice the "B", that indicates a belted tire which typically has a higher load index. Their literature doesn't list a plain vanilla 140/90-16. Clearly the product and marketing departments dropped the ball on communications. Yamaha calls for a 71 load index. But they only list the carrying capacity of the motorcycle at about 350lbs. I know I exceed the 350 lbs. That's one of the things I like about the Kenda Kruz, it's a 77. BTW, because I know people are wondering, decoding your tire: 140/90-16 71H 140 = width in mm. 90 = height is 90% of width, or 126mm 16 = wheel diameter in inches (we wouldn't want to stay with one measuring system...........) 71 = load index. 71 = 761 lbs. H = speed index. H = 130 mph. So theoretically your tire, loaded at 761 lbs., would last for awhile at 130 mph. That presumes it's inflated to its maximum pressure, the road isn't too hot, etc. What we don't know is what "awhile" means at Full Bore, it could be 1 mile or 10,000.......... Thanks teach for the info! Anyone else got input? The classroom for ol puc is ALWAYS open,, this ol dog LOVES learning new tricks! http://www.jcmotors.com/full-bore-usa-m-66-tour-king-rear-tire-20502-p THANKS PETE, YOU DA MAN! By the way,, these folks were great deal with, tire came well packaged WITH those neat little cardboard spacers in place to preform the tire for much easier bead setting inflation.. Anyone who has tried getting a tire started on the bead seal when the tire came without these neat little spacers will KNOW what I am talking about! Quick ship too! http://www.fullboretires.com/cruiser.html
cowpuc Posted July 10, 2014 Author #25 Posted July 10, 2014 http://www.jcmotors.com/full-bore-usa-m-66-tour-king-rear-tire-20502-p http://www.fullboretires.com/cruiser.html Thanks Pete for covering my back on that one! By the way, JCMOTORS were great folks to deal with. Tire came nicely packed, quick ship and had those nice cardboard spacers that make bead setting a whole lot easier for us back yard mechanics who do their own tire swaps..
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