Harbor Freight tool report

[dna9656]

This is sure starting to sound like an "as long as you in there" thread.

 

Since the heads are coming off, Valve job? Mill for a little more compression? Boil out?..........

The list can go on.......

 

I want NOTHING to do with this disaster ever again. Figure this; I'm old school Detroit iron. This engine is new school Japanese stuff. Since Japanese cars get re-engine every 30k miles how much attention do you figure the sadists (engineers) who design these instruments of torture put into the concept of reparability? You have to remove a 8" and a 10" bolt to get the gears off the end of the cam before the head can be removed. You know who carries a 36mm wrench or crow foot? Me either, Nobody. You got to order it. Gaskets, if you buy the head gaskets locally you got to buy the complete set, That's $300.00. Rockauto.com has them for 27 to 40 $$$ each. You almost have to buy new head bolts because they didn't use good bolts, they are torque to yield (that's read BREAK or STRETCH); in contrast chevy head blots can be re-used in standard service, (NOT street racing) indefinably so far as I know. I'm not going to chance using the old bolts, have them FAIL and get to dis-assemble this thing all over again.. New gaskets, new this, new that...So no the valves were fine before this mess they will be fine after. I have no desire to have spend MORE money on gas because I upped the compression ratio. My wife and I are in our 50s, 6 speed trans and the stock speed are fast enough to get to work, the grocery store ,or church, see our friends or go out for an evening. Speed just attracts attention of the cops. I have no desire to line the States pockets with my bread.

Edited July 4, 2014 by dna9656

[dna9656]

As far as tools from HF, only lesson learned for me is that the China made tools are almost one time use whereas the Taiwan made tools are just as good as craftsman, kobolt, husky, dewalt, etc.

 

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I am VERY selective about the tools I get at Harbor freight. I recommend everybody be VERY selective. They have serviceable stuff and they have CRAP too.

[dna9656]

The back of valves are so clean it's amazing. I will get a valve open to use the shop vac, good thinking!

 

My valve spring compressor doesn't work on this small motor, it works on Chevys and they are further apart than GM valves.

 

UPDATE: got a loaner tool from the A/P store, am headed out (just out of curiosity mainly; I'm still pulling the heads) to see if I can do this.

Edited July 6, 2014 by dna9656

[dna9656]

Well wasted anther day of vacation working on the POS yesterday, got little accomplished except to learn larger wrench sizes are extremely hard to find AND pay for. My neighbor across the road came over and lent some much needed moral support and ideas. We tried blowing the crap out with my little 12 gallon Craftsman Compressor, no joy. so then we went to a tool store and found them closed. We were going to take the pulleys off the cam and pull the heads. A good job of cleaning then could be accomplished.

I replaced the plumbing on my REAL compressor, a Campbell/Hausefiled 4 cylinder, 80 gallon, 125 PSI @ 12 CFM (how manly!) monster so we tried THAT but I need to open the intake valves more so my plan it as follows;

Got some small rubber grommets, borrow a valve spring compressor tool at the local A/P store, take the vale springs off the intake valves (I have 2 per) one cylinder at a time and make sure the piston isn't too far down JUST IN CASE the valve falls, it won't fall completely into the cylinder. Using the compression tester hose with the Schrader valve removed, sock some air in there and see what blows out the intake valves. Maybe the valves will be open enough I can stir things up in the cylinder enough to get them airborne and out of the cylinder...

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Edited July 6, 2014 by dna9656

[bkuhr]

Pulling valve springs with head attached is taking a chance valve will fall thru and ruin your test for the second valve, as well as ability to rotate motor any more to test other cylinders. This would be ok if you first filled the cylinder with rope to hold the valves up, if just replacing springs/keepers, but would defeat the test you are trying.

 

If just wanting to try to dislodge something, I might suggest, when air is blowing in cylinder, you hit on assembled valve stem with rubber hammer. Will not require very hard hits. This will cause the valve to open a little then slam shut again, releasing air burst thru the valve port-intake or exhaust. You will likely have air bleed around the piston rings into the pan, but you should also be able to determine if a valve will not completely close/seal.

 

Ensure the cylinder being worked on has the piston at BTC, as it likely will be with air applied, pushing down, unless it was unable to rotate due to your issue, then rotate the other way so the piston is down before you hammer a valve into the piston and cause new damage.

[rbig1]

you could fill cylinder with seafoam btdc soften up carbon enough to break it down so will turn over. engine will burn it up after it starts. it may sound like a rod knocking when first started just don't hammer throttle. its worth a try. remember kiss [keep it super simple] don't do any more than you have to.

[dna9656]

Pulling valve springs with head attached is taking a chance valve will fall thru and ruin your test for the second valve, as well as ability to rotate motor any more to test other cylinders. This would be ok if you first filled the cylinder with rope to hold the valves up, if just replacing springs/keepers, but would defeat the test you are trying.

 

If just wanting to try to dislodge something, I might suggest, when air is blowing in cylinder, you hit on assembled valve stem with rubber hammer. Will not require very hard hits. This will cause the valve to open a little then slam shut again, releasing air burst thru the valve port-intake or exhaust. You will likely have air bleed around the piston rings into the pan, but you should also be able to determine if a valve will not completely close/seal.

 

Ensure the cylinder being worked on has the piston at BTC, as it likely will be with air applied, pushing down, unless it was unable to rotate due to your issue, then rotate the other way so the piston is down before you hammer a valve into the piston and cause new damage.

 

Brian;

Good thoughts; let me tell you something else I have learned about interference engines: You can bring the piston up really close to the head (hence the interference issue) so if the piston is brought up high enough (again that's not an issue with this type engine) the valve won't fall into the cylinder; and if it did what would it hurt; the heads are coming off anyway.

While the carbon that is the cylinder(s) could be stuck to the head all the previous rotating of the engine to check the timing operated all the valves so this carbon that might be on the valves has long ago fallen to the top of the cylinder(s).

 

Some representative pics of the piston tops.

 

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/53B5345F.jpg

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/53B533F0.jpg

 

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/dna9656/53B5340F.jpg

[dna9656]

you could fill cylinder with seafoam btdc soften up carbon enough to break it down so will turn over. engine will burn it up after it starts. it may sound like a rod knocking when first started just don't hammer throttle. its worth a try. remember kiss [keep it super simple] don't do any more than you have to.

 

Filling the cylinders with Seafoam with the engine at BTDC would be wasteful (and expensive as this is a 6 cylinder motor; I think that would be more than 1 can per) as the cylinder walls do not have carbon build up only the piston tops and the head surface above the pistons. Soaking them may or may not work as the Seafoam would leak past the rings, if I could get an effective nylon brush in there to make some Seafoam and carbon soup that would be effective but you still got to get it out. It's very hard to get anything to bend or flex into the cylinder. I need a brush that would lay across the radius of the piston and rotate it like a wiper, but since the spark plug is NOT located above the center of the cylinder but closer to the intake valves that's a toughie too. The spark plug hole is at the bottom of a 6" tube that passes through the valve cover like a 426. I know the soupie crud would blow out when I start the engine but a lot has to happen that requires the motoring over of the engine (setting the timing belt) before I get to the start it up stage so I'm pulling the head.

Oh and another little juicy thing happened.

You know those socket extensions with the little lock on the end where the socket goes on? the lock is just like the one on your better ratchets...I bought a set at Wal-Mart made by Bostitch the stapler company...(who knows who in China REALLY made them) well the little button that releases the ball in one of the extensions is missing; when did I notice this? Right after I used the extension above and on the heads...so guess where that ball COULD be?

Another reason I have to pull at least the front head...

Edited July 8, 2014 by dna9656

[rbig1]

before top dead center lol never proof read that. that would be a waste.

[rbig1]

that top picture looks like carbon has been flattened. are the pistons red colored or is light red. red is to much alcohol in fuel or water separated mix. and does car idle a lot.

[dna9656]

that top picture looks like carbon has been flattened. are the pistons red colored or is light red. red is to much alcohol in fuel or water separated mix. and does car idle a lot.

 

No the car does not spend much time idling. You can see in the pictures exactly what I see, do you see red? I do not; I see black crap carbon. In the'70s GM said carbon build up in the top of the cylinders was caused by the polymer that made 10W30 oil 10W30. So they recommended 10w40. I wonder.

I'm pulling the heads; it's the only way I can have piece of mind.

[dna9656]

before top dead center lol never proof read that. that would be a waste.

 

I don't know what you're referring to.