Trouble starting my RSV 07

[retiredgolfer]

After installing a new battery my bike would not even try to start. After coaching me via e-mail for several days, Dion (djh3) made the 50 mile trip to Winter Haven and got me going in less than a hour. What a treat to meet such a nice person, and get my bike running at the same time.

 

I have seen Dion's suggestions several times for people having mechanical problems. We are all fortunate to have someone like him to help us out. He knows these bikes very well.

 

Thank you Dion, really appreciate having my bike back in good working order.

[djh3]

Glad I could help. Like we discussed I hate not finding something physical to blame it on. I am still researching a couple things it might be. But Im glad its up and running.

[N3FOL]

Glad your bike is back in running condition. So... What do you think is the culprit of the no start?

[djh3]

Best thing I can come up with was dirty contact pins on clutch switch. Once I unplugged it and reconnected it fired rite up. I hate when I cant find anything factual and firm. The start relay didnt have a strong click when trying to start. For whatever reasone I disconnected to clutch switch and hit button and relay felt more like it should. Plugged back in and Vroom.

[djh3]

OK guys, I'm open for suggestions here. Eddie e-mailed me and said bike has been fine, right up till yesterday or so. Now bike wont crank and run. Lights and stuff comes on but no crank. Last time I cleaned all the battery connections and checked the main fuse. I think I removed and cleaned the connections on the starter relay by the main fuse also.

I progressed up the chain and removed the clutch connector and plugged it back in and it started and ran fine right up til now. So thats where I had him start today was removing the clutch switch and re-plug it. Nothing, I think he said he gave it a shot of WD 40 also. He get 2 red lights on the bottom of the dash, I think they are the oil and water temp maybe. but they come on when it wont start.

So a little while ago he sends a message now some 3-4 hr after we have exchanged things to look at and tells me he went out just for kicks and hit the button, waalaa it cranks.

I'm kind of thinking possibly the starter button? If the ignition switch was cooked or going out you wouldn't get lights and radio etc rite?

[MikeWa]

It might be time for a jumper wire. Unplug the clutch switch, side stand switch, kill switch etc. one at a time and jumper the wires. Hopefully this will identify the problem. If not then it might be time to check the bikes wiring to the switches and relay. A little tougher but doable.

 

Mike

[djh3]

I thought it was the clutch switch before. So today I was working on mine to see what the readings should be and match up to the shop manual. While I had the plug pulled out of the clutch mine started fine. So I would say safely that you dont need the clutch switch to start. The rest of that junk is plugged in up under the fairing best I can guess. I looked at the side stand switch and it looks as though that harness goes up either under the left leg fairing or the main fairing. I lost it up around the front of the motor somewhere and quit.

Originally when I went up to look at the bike the first time I put one of my keyless by-pass relay kits on it. Still no start so I really dont think its the ignition switch as I had that by-passed with the kit. I'm kind of leaning towards the thumb switch. I dont know why, maybe because I dont want to disassembly half the bike to troubleshoot switches that make no sense.

Speaking of which. somebody look at pg 8-15 (399 in pdf) and tell me its not wrong on #4. It says to put voltage into the harness and you should get continuity at those pins. I tried, no way. First off with power off it has continuity, if you simply turn the key on you get power at the R/B wire on the connector. So I think there is something fishy. I believe it is supposed to be pinning out the relay itself.

[retiredgolfer]

When I was checking for Dion what lights come on, when I hit the starter, it started. Very strange as I did nothing different than when it would not start all morning. Kickstand down, bike in neutral, started immediately, yet all morning it would not even try to start. With Dion's direction we tried all of the scenario's with no luck. As Dion has said hard to fix a intermittent problem. Hard to know when/if it is repaired or just started working again.

 

Eddie

[Neil86]

Speaking of which. somebody look at pg 8-15 (399 in pdf) and tell me its not wrong on #4. It says to put voltage into the harness and you should get continuity at those pins. I tried, no way. First off with power off it has continuity, if you simply turn the key on you get power at the R/B wire on the connector. So I think there is something fishy. I believe it is supposed to be pinning out the relay itself.

 

The R/B and the B/Y are for the SCCR relay coil....so if you energize the coil, you should have continuity through the relay contacts ie the L & L/W wires.

 

If you tested with power off you will have continuity between the R/B and the B/Y, thats through the relay coil, but you should be open (no continuity) between the L & L/W.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Neil86

[djh3]

My question is this test is for the relay correct? NOT the connector on the bike. I have power on the R/B if key is on. So what would be the difference if inducing power to this wire from turning key on. I did it both ways and still no continuity on those wires. And the test subject runs.

[dacheedah]

ignition switch going bad http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=512

[Neil86]

Yes, you are testing the relay with it unhooked from the harness.

 

The difference is the relay is totally isolated from the bike harness, so you are testing

only those contacts.

 

With key on, yes you have may have power on the R/B, but if the relay coil isn't grounding through any of the interlocks (neutral switch, clutch switch, kickstand switch)

the relay contacts remain open. Hooking up the relay to a battery ensures the relay coil is energized.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Neil86

[retiredgolfer]

I need to clarify, everything seems to work except starting. Not only does the radio work, ALL lights come on when the switch is turned on including dash lights, headlights, passing lights, tail lights and gages.

[djh3]

Dacheda- When I went to look at it the first time I took one of my keyless ignition bypass setups with me and bypassed the ignition. It still wouldnt turn the starter. I kind of thought it was the ignition at first also.

 

Neil thanks. I thought the more I read that checklist that they just wrote the thing wrong. they say harness, but you are actually checking the relay.

[Neil86]

They say unhook coupler from harness....the coupler is the pigtail attached to the component.

[Neil86]

Probably testing at the harness for the SCCR when the fault occurs should pinpoint

power from the starter relay (solenoid) on the L, power out on the L/W.

 

No power out...test Lg wire for ground through neutral switch and for ground on

clutch & sidestand switch on the B/Y.

 

Power in and out, check starter button.

[BlueSky]

Just for fun, make sure the battery cables are tight!

[djh3]

Yea aint that the trick. Is xcatch it when it happens. On an intermitent problem is your never really sure you got it fixed.

[XV1100SE]

My vote is for ignition switch issue.

[Condor]

Just a thought.... This all started when the battery was replaced. Yes?? Were any washers or extra power leads placed between the battery anode and the cable ends? Even a batt tender lead?? This will drop the batt amp flow down to were the starter won't even turn over. With the key in run check for dim headlight.... Could also be a bad starter solenoid???

[djh3]

Condor, Yea he added a battery tender with the new battery, but I think he changed the battery because it wouldn't start or was slow rolling over when he got back after a few weeks. . I have taken all that apart and cleaned all the connections there and on ground side. But when he drops it off I will make sure the OEM cables sit rite on the terminal and anything else added is on top of leads. My first idea goes to the thumb button, then possibly the starter relay. Which is down by the main fuse if I remember correctly right? Geeze thats a PIA to get to.

[Neil86]

Since Eddie reported during the no start that the hi water temp and low oil warning lights come on pushing starter button, that indicates a good ground path through the starter button.

These lights self test by grounding through the starter button when its pressed.

 

The clutch switch is only needed for starting in gear, and then the clutch switch and sidestand switch need to be satisfied for the SCCR to operate. If the bike is physically in neutral, the neutral switch should allow starting regardless of clutch or sidestand position.

 

During the testing was the bike tried with sidestand up and clutch in even though the neutral light showed?

[djh3]

I have got the fairing split currently so I can OHM out the start button. When Eddie dropped the bike off he said as he was getting ready to bring it to me it wouldnt start. Go figure. but he flipped the ignition switch a couple times and still no start then kept pushing the thumb button and it fired up.

So I have connector pulled apart to ohm it out. It shows continuity but not every time. I can press button and say 3 out of 5 time it goes straight 000. The others it may go .9 or 1.2 then go to 000. If holding the button it has went 000 then worked its way back to say .5 or more.

sitting in the garage before I touched anything turned switch on and lights and all the goodies, hit button........ nothing. thumb it once or twice fires off.

[djh3]

More of the story.

Took thumb switch apart and cleaned it up. Checks out fine. Probably started the bike a dozen times or at least hit the starter you know not make bike run just making sure starter hits. Then once nothing. AHH something I can work with. Key was on and dash lights, headlights etc all on. So I disconnected the battery and left the switch. Removed the tank and OHM out the ignition switch. All is good switch checks out per the manual. :confused24:So following the manual I got to the starter solenoid. I remove it and put power and ground where it says and it ohm out OK. That is as long as you dont leave it energized. If you leave it energized it gains resistance .3,.6 and so on, highest I saw was about 1.6-1.8 Also the relay get very warm if left energized, is this normal for this component?

It has only not engaged the starter maybe 3 times out of 30. And on those if I hit the thumb button again it has engaged the starter. I sure hate to think about putting a $40-50 solenoid on it thinking that is. you know if it would just up and quit youd have some proof.

[Neil86]

1.8 ohms across the starter relay contacts?