Ford 4.6 triton COP Question, Just change them all?

[RSTDdog]

This my first Ford with the Triton V8 and Coil on Plug (COPs).So I have no CEL but can feel a miss/skip every once in a while, replaced all eight spark plugs with motorcraft platinum and all eight boots and made sure connections were clean and tight. Still feels like one or maybe two intermittently misfiring. Van has 91,000 miles, Still has 5 original Ford Coils, 2 coils with no brand identifier and one Denso coil 673-6000. Consistent with prior owner records of replacing two coils around 45000 and I'm guessing the Denso went in around 75000.

 

Have access to a Actron C9587 Scanner that does a lot but doesn't appear to read misfire history codes and didn't give me any stored codes. Googling says you need a scanner that does mode 6. It will cost me $80-100 just to have someone scan it and tell me which coils are the culprits.

 

Denso part number 673-6000 on Rock Auto are only 22.78 each and are Made in USA from reviews elsewhere of other Denso COPs I have read (but not that specific part number). So diagnostic charges is more than half way to jus buying all eight.

 

What's the VR.org consensus? Just replace all eight COPS and be done with it?

 

Thanks in Advance

[Bob Myers]

Interesting question. My Dodge hemi acts the same, surge/misfire feeling. No one on the Dodge forums has answered a similar question from over a year ago. i watch it closely hoping for a magical cure.

[BlueSky]

Go to f150online.com for recommendations on cops. They recommend Motorcraft or there is an equivalent from the same vendor that makes Motorcraft that is cheaper sold on ebay. They bad mouth all other brands.

[RSTDdog]

Go to f150online.com for recommendations on cops. They recommend Motorcraft or there is an equivalent from the same vendor that makes Motorcraft that is cheaper sold on ebay. They bad mouth all other brands.

 

Used google to search the various ford truck sites and thedieselstop.com (where I used to be real active when I had 7.3 E350 and 7.3 F250 PSD)in their gas engine section. Seems no one that I can find has used the Denso coil at all (couldn't find any threads asking about it either). Either motorcraft or they complain about the real cheap ones (8 for $50.00-100.00). Denso makes the COPS on my current Hyundai Azera and 2007 My Santa Fe was traded with a 115,000 miles with all the original Denso COPS. Toyota and Honda use them too. I don't consider Denso an off brand, they build their own parts. The motorcraft coils seemed to be sourced from various countries.

 

Question really is whether to just keep changing them as they fail or change all eight (regardless of brand). Just called and the Firestone Car Care by Me want's 99.00 for the diagnostic only. That's already over half the cost of 8 denso coils or 2.5 motorcraft coils.

[brd7666]

The best Ford Truck web site is http://www.ford-trucks.com. The dieselstop is just ok, I am also a member of that site. http://www.ford-trucks.com is so much better than the rest. No other site even compares to it. Check it out.

[brd7666]

If you aren't sure which cop it is, then I would change them all. You can get good deals on them on Ebay. A bad cop can cause the plug to foul out.

[Money Venture]

276000 miles on my 5.4 and I change them all at once. Used the cheap ones and have changed them twice in 135000 miles. YMMV.

[RSTDdog]

The best Ford Truck web site is www.ford-trucks.com. The dieselstop is just ok, I am also a member of that site. www.ford-trucks.com is so much better than the rest. No other site even compares to it. Check it out.

 

Did a google search of Ford-Trucks.com. Nothing on Denso coils but alot people like the Denso Iridium plugs. As far as thedieselstop, that was (8-10years ago) the go-to site for powerstrokes before it was sold by the guy who started it. Didn't care for it last few times i was there recently. It was never much for gas engines even though they had sub-forums for them.

 

Leaning toward changing them all and giving the Denso COPS a shot.

[OrlinEngh]

I put all new cop's in the second time in my 5.4 and still had the same two go out again so just replaced those two, seems to me it was number 3 and 6 cop's and went with the cheaper kind and they lasted just as long as the others.

Orlin

[BlueSky]

The Visteons are the ones recommended on the f150online site. They are supposed to be the same as Motorcraft and are much cheaper and supposedly available on ebay.

I also saw a recommendation for Araparts.

Check rockauto.

[djh3]

I think Vistion is the "backdoor" supplier for FORD. Kind of like Delco is to GM. OR Delphi use to be for GM

[BlueSky]

I checked ebay and amazon and did not see Visteons. Yes, they manufacture the Motorcraft cops and many F150 guys have bought them on ebay much cheaper than the Motorcraft cops.

[djh3]

4.6 is same motor they use in the mustangs too I think. So I could look over there and see what guys say. I had a van when I worked at the Dodge dealer off and on that had a miss intermittent. Ran the machine and it said it was a plug, so changed them all. A week later it was back with a miss. So guess who get to chase a miss for free now. Ran diagnostics machine and it said like #6 coil, so changed that one, 3-4 days later its back sme problem. So these folks are beginning to think I/we dont know what the heck we are doing right? Like 2-2.5 weeks into this thing and 3 or 4 coil packs it finally ran fine. I think what happened is one was going bad, fouled the plug. New plugs now it runs fine because of plugs, but because the coil was weak it didnt take long to breakdown and quit off and on then completely. Just happened that the other crapped out because they wee the same age I guess. Its a roll of the dice, but if you got 120K out of it and are going to keep it another 40k or so it might be worth it just headache wise to change them all.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

This my first Ford with the Triton V8 and Coil on Plug (COPs) Van has 91,000 miles....

 

Coincidentally, I recently bought a 2009 E-250 SuperDuty Cargo Van with the 4.6 L engine. My first Ford..ever. Also, my first van....ever.

 

I plan to refurbish the inside for 'camping'...actually just sleeping....while traveling...(hauling the Ural)

 

Mine had 104,176 fleet-maintained highway miles when I bought it...with the expectation the motor can go another 100,000 or 200,000 miles before it's trash. I got a reasonable deal on it.

 

Well....I only average about 5000 miles a year on any vehicle with 4 wheels. So in practical terms, this van has hit retirement!

 

(pretty Blonde Not included)

 

Edited June 9, 2014 by tx2sturgis

[frankd]

When one of the coils on my V-10, 2001 E-350 went bad, I had an intermittent misfire. I went to the auto parts store, and their OBD II monitor told me that it was cylinder #9 misfiring. I just changed that coil, and that was 10 years ago.

 

I don't think you mentioned what year your 4.6 is, but the early years of the COP had real bad coils, but they made the later ones better so they don't go bad nearly as often.

 

I used a Motorcraft COP to replace my bad one.

[frankd]

When one of the coils on my V-10, 2001 E-350 went bad, I had an intermittent misfire. I went to the auto parts store, and their OBD II monitor told me that it was cylinder #9 misfiring. I just changed that coil, and that was 10 years ago.

 

I don't think you mentioned what year your 4.6 is, but the early years of the COP had real bad coils, but they made the later ones better so they don't go bad nearly as often.

 

I used a Motorcraft COP to replace my bad one.

 

In case you were concerned how long these engines last. Below is a picture of the odometer on my brother's 99 E-350 w/5.4 engine. The motor and the transmission are original----only oil changes and plugs.

[KICKSHOT]

You could buy one coil and install it in a cylinder and drive it to see if the miss is gone. If it is gone you know you got lucky. If not put the original coil back in and try another cylinder. That is a lot of work on a van. Mode six data, power balance and PID data monitor is what I use to find missing cylinders that do not set a misfire code. But I have access to ford test equipment. I am not sure if one of the parts stores that pull codes for free can access that information for you. I would bet it is one of the remaining five original coils that is failing now. I do know that the accell coils did not work well for us. I do recommend using only motorcraft plugs. But if I found an after market coil with good reviews I would try it.

kickshot

[BlueSky]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ignition-Coil-Ignition-Coils-VISTEON-60-1000-/330836213376?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d075ffe80

[RSTDdog]

Thanks everyone. I'll try and address the various posts best I can. Its a 2000 E150 Club Wagon Chateau with the 4.6. It was a one owner van with 86K miles when I bought it back in October. Its my 4th Club wagon but the first I have had with a Triton. Previously had one with a 5.0L, one with 7.5L 460 and the one I never should have sold the 2003 7.3 PSD E350, but you do what you have to do sometimes. So no not scared of the miles and like Tx2Sturgis its not a daily for me either.

 

Tranny let go in it though few thousand miles after I bought it on my way to Pensacola. Blew the front seal out and puked outhte fluid. On dis-assembly there was metal in it so opted for the Ford reman with three year warranty.

 

Whoever had the van had Club Wagon's previously I think. It had the third row seat that folds into bed in it, an option that Ford quit offering in 1997. I'm guessing he swapped out seats when he traded in. The upholstery for the third row seat is slightly different but still gray.

 

Auto parts stores can't read misfires unless it sets the CEL. The actron scanner I have access to CP9587 OBD II scanner has section for misfire codes but didn't show any, I only had it for a short while so couldn't really sort out everything it does but it found no codes.

 

I did change all the plugs with motorcraft platinums and all the coil boots.

 

So my plugs only have a few thousand miles on them and the misfire seems very mild and intermittent. Got around 16.5 mpg on the highway on my last trip to Pensacola in March in this condition. Can I change just the coils at this point? Plugs should still be OK?

[KICKSHOT]

Yes you should be able to change coils only if you want to. Like you said it is only an intermittent misfire so it should not have fouled the plug.

kickshot

[Neil86]

Don't forget that newer engines get their fuel by "wire" too....

[Guest tx2sturgis]

So my plugs only have a few thousand miles on them and the misfire seems very mild and intermittent. Got around 16.5 mpg on the highway on my last trip to Pensacola in March in this condition.

 

 

I've had this van for less than six weeks, (about 600 miles) and havent yet checked the pump against the miles traveled, but the dash readout is showing pretty decent mileage on the highway. It drops in city operation to about 15 to 17 mpg. My little half-ton V6 Chevy did about the same....

 

Course, I kinda take it easy...not in any hurry when I'm driving this thing.

 

 

 

[RSTDdog]

My 4.6 is "EPA Rated" for 19 Highway, most of threads I have read on it, to get 19 you need to do 65-70 max. Around town I've been getting 15-16 and I drive easy. Hoping once I get the misfire sorted, if Highway mpg gets to around 18 I'll be happy.