8 Blinks fuel guage, no start

[Seaking]

with just over 200,000 kms on the 2006 RSV, the bike fails to start. Though it will crank and crank and crank, it won't catch. At first I thought it's the fuel pump (2nd one) I then notice the fuel gauge flashing 8 times, pause three secs, flashes 8 more time etc.

 

According to the book, this indicates that the thermistor or sending unit is faulty. This bike hasn't shown proper fuel levels in a while now, usually drops to below half after 20 miles but holds sorta kinda normal down towards the last 3 bars..

 

(added) I now notice that the far right fuel bar flashes continuously after trying to start the bike.. the bike shows the far left bar as indicating a bad sender.. is the book bass ackwards?

 

How does a bad fuel gauge sending unit affect if the engine should start or not?

 

What's the normal course of action for repairs for this? Pull out the fuel sending unit and have a look at it to see if anything is obvious and if not, replace it? This had happened once before, thinking it was flooded but managed to start the bike after waiting 30 minutes.. did not notice any flashing fuel gauge that time.. (it might have been flashing but not seen).

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Cheers

Edited May 19, 2014 by Seaking

[Bert2006]

Have you checked your electrical connection on the tank. The one we have to disconnect when taking the tank off?

[Seaking]

Have you checked your electrical connection on the tank. The one we have to disconnect when taking the tank off?

 

Yep, had thought of that as well.. cleaned them off but no change in symptoms unfortunately.. was looking at the fuel pump points, they are sharp and nice looking though cruddy with road grime.. Give them a cleaning as well.. Something in the fuel system I suspect.. something new to me for repairs.

[etcswjoe]

The fuel sender and thermistor should have nothing to do with it not starting, I have had mine off several times and it still runs just fine.

[Seaking]

The fuel sender and thermistor should have nothing to do with it not starting, I have had mine off several times and it still runs just fine.

 

I agree, I do recall starting the bike with the tank plug undone and getting that signal..

 

I've thus far ascertained that the fuel pump IS servicable.. good points, and it pumps fuel out with pressure.. All fuzes are good and reseated.. Bike ran flawlessly the day before..

 

If I hold the bike upright, no flashing on the fuel gauge but as soon as it goes to it's kickstand with 3/4 fuel in the tank, flashing resumes.. but that's not the issue.. Battery is new and good, no recent new wiring or mods to the bike, ran well since taking it out in March.. and poof.. no start..

 

(added) Doing some more checks, discover there is no spark. Apart from the flashing fuel gauge, everything seems to work properly.. Where to start...

 

So now it's chasing the lack of spark.. ?

 

Anything else I should be looking at while I'm chasing this gremlin?

Edited May 19, 2014 by Seaking

[etcswjoe]

I will see what I can figure out. Have you checked the ignition switch?

Edited May 20, 2014 by etcswjoe

[Seaking]

I will see what I can figure out. Have you checked the ignition switch.

 

Not yet.. mostly because I am unsure how to check that..

 

I know the coils shouldn't be the issue as they were replaced under warranty a few years ago..

 

Last year and a couple of times this year, I would get a "hesitant" start when pressing down on the starter button.. cleaned the switch and that kinda sorta fixed the issue but it still happens once in a while.. but the bike will start.. well when things are working properly..

 

Tell me more about the ignition switch checks and possible fixes if you can?

 

Thanks

[etcswjoe]

With switch on Red, Brown/Black and Brown/Blue should be shorted together also Blue/Yellow and Blue/Black should be shorted together.

 

In ACC Red and Brown/Black should be shorted.

 

Check the connections going to the switch for burning/melting.

[djh3]

If the bike cranks over I doubt it the switch. But if you want to check it out there is a 3 pin connector under the tank that needs 2 wires jumpered. They both have a tracer. Should be a blue/black and a blue/yellow. Just jumper it with a paper lip or something from the back side and see if you get spark. does the radio and CB etc come on? Lights?

[Seaking]

Thanks for the reply gents.. Though a little lost as to what you're referring to.. its the jargon and inexperience in the ignition electrical system.

 

Are you refering to this set up here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75398

 

This is within my abilities and I have the required parts available to try this... might be cause effect of those false hesitant starts I had been experiencing in the past..

 

Apologies for my confused look..

 

Cheers

[etcswjoe]

That is the fix for the switch if you do not want to buy a new one. When my switch went bad the bike would crank but not fire is why I jumped on the switch first and it is fairly easy to check. If you like I can take pics tomorrow after work of the checks.

[Seaking]

That is the fix for the switch if you do not want to buy a new one. When my switch went bad the bike would crank but not fire is why I jumped on the switch first and it is fairly easy to check. If you like I can take pics tomorrow after work of the checks.

 

That would be highly appreciated.. To answer to a previous question, when the key is turned on, the radio and CB do work, head light works, the fuel pump can be heard to tick over (verified that fuel is being pumped in previous testing) etc.. everything seems to be normal except no spark, and the flashing fuel level gauge.

 

Cheers

[M61A1MECH]

Do you have a spare or can you borrow an igintion module from someone? Could be a bad module, maybe someone local to you has installed a DYNA 3K and has the stock unit laying around, not real hard to swap out.

[djh3]

If it turns out to be a switch I may have a fix for ya cheaper than the $300 for a new one from Yamaha. I make a by-pass kit, and you could put it on a hidden toggle switch. See this write up. E mail me if you have any questions.

Edited May 20, 2014 by djh3

[Seaking]

If it turns out to be a switch I may have a fix for ya cheaper than the $300 for a new one from Yamaha. I make a by-pass kit, and you could put it on a hidden toggle switch. See this write up. E mail me if you have any questions.

 

Thanks M8

[Seaking]

Do you have a spare or can you borrow an igintion module from someone? Could be a bad module, maybe someone local to you has installed a DYNA 3K and has the stock unit laying around, not real hard to swap out.

 

I have the Dyna3K installed on this bike.. and hmm where is the OEM one..? I have the Dyna3K on my 1100 VStar as well and found one OEM module, but luck would have it that it's not identified as to which bike it came off from.. (from the days before I started bagging and tagging everything properly.. sigh)

[etcswjoe]

Attached it the switch test, looks like I need to take mine apart and clean it before it goes bad.

[Seaking]

Attached it the switch test, looks like I need to take mine apart and clean it before it goes bad.

 

Thanks for the PDF file. I tested the plugs after close inspection.

 

Plugs, connectors and wires show no sign of over heat, burn or concern..

 

However, meter readings weren't favourable. Following the directions on the PDF file, here's what I ended up with..

 

Switch ACC red + brown/black wire = 0.1

Switch ON red + black/blue = open (no reading)

Switch ON red + brown/blue = 0.5

Switch ON blue/black + blue/yellow = 0.1

 

I went back and double checked my readings and found that this time all were the same except that now the red + black/blue gave me a 0.2 readings.. hmm A couple of more tries and it still gave me the same reading.. But once I turned the key to off and back to ON, no reading.. turn the key from off to ON but twist more to the right, and I get my readings again..

 

So what ever the red + black/blue connections does, the turning of the key is affecting it working or not.. Doesn`t surprise me.. the key tumbler has always been troublesome on this bike whereas it will only turn at a special angle.. I`d have to sit on the bike and the key turns easily.. but stand to the right of the bike and you can`t turn the key.. so odd..

 

SO, what is the fix?

 

Thanks again for the assist.. !

[etcswjoe]

The Blue/Black feeds the ignitor unit, so I am inclined to say your switch is bad it's not the tumbler that is causing the loss of contact. If you feel comfortable with it you could jumper those two wires and see if it will start or once you get a good reading plug it back up and see if it will start.

 

A new switch is around $180 or you can do the bypass mentioned before.

 

2nd opinions?

[Seaking]

The Blue/Black feeds the ignitor unit, so I am inclined to say your switch is bad it's not the tumbler that is causing the loss of contact. If you feel comfortable with it you could jumper those two wires and see if it will start or once you get a good reading plug it back up and see if it will start.

 

A new switch is around $180 or you can do the bypass mentioned before.

 

2nd opinions?

 

Thanks M8.. I had just finished putting the bike together again and trying to start it with the key pushed around but alas, it's a no go..

 

What is the process of 'jumper the two wires' ? Connecting a wire across both wires before the plug?

 

When we speak of the 'SWITCH', what physical part is that? I looked in the parts fiche and can't find it...

 

Again, thank you for your assistance.

[etcswjoe]

It's Part #6 in the link:

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/2006/ROYAL+STAR+MIDNIGHT+VENTURE+-+XVZ13TFMV/ELECTRICAL+1/parts.html

 

 

I would jumper them on the switch side of the connector, Connecting a wire across both wires before the plug would probably be the easiest if you are comfortable doing it.

 

I have also took jumper leads and connected Red,Brown/Black,Brown/Blue together and Blue/Yellow,Blue/Black together on the wiring harness side just for a test to verify a bad switch.

[Seaking]

Ouch.. note to self, when trying to start a bike that has been cranking for a while, mind the ears.. geesus, that backfire bang was LOUD... both of them..

 

Alrighty then, here's where I am now.. with the red and brown/blue on the same connector jumpered on the bike side, the system lights up.. ahh acts like a switch, hence the switch bypass term.. the key still needs to be turned ON to start the bike though. Without the key all you get are the lights and such. The bike wouldn't start the first time I tried it so I also jumpered the switch side.. and the bike started.. wether or not the switch side actually made any difference what so ever, I'm not sure.. all I know is that the bike finally started again, and again.. So now I know I have a bad switch.. (ears still ringing)

 

So a new switch is in order and the relay mod installed to eleviate this problem again..

 

In the mean time, a simple toggle on/off switch on the jumper will suffice to keep the bike in service until the parts arrive.. (is this correct thinking?)

[etcswjoe]

Since that is the only lead that is bad the toggle switch should work just remember to turn it off each time.

 

I also like DJH3's fix

 

If it turns out to be a switch I may have a fix for ya cheaper than the $300 for a new one from Yamaha. I make a by-pass kit, and you could put it on a hidden toggle switch. See this write up. E mail me if you have any questions.

[Seaking]

Since that is the only lead that is bad the toggle switch should work just remember to turn it off each time.

I also like DJH3's fix

 

I'll be contacting DJH3..

 

Hopefully the toggle switch is only temporary.. thanks again!

[etcswjoe]

I'll be contacting DJH3..

 

Hopefully the toggle switch is only temporary.. thanks again!

 

Glad I could help.