my 2002 midnight valve clearances.

[revinger]

I finally decided to bite the bullet this weekend and try one more time to get the bike down to check the valves. I started into it last year and hit a snag with the lowers not cooperating to come off. Just had to be a bit more persistent.

 

Anyway, bike has about 42,000 miles on it. I bought it used with about 28,000 and the dealer told me up front he had not checked the clearances. I put it off for 3 years now, just couldnt justify payiing a dealer to do it as for one I wanted the experience of getting down to that level and my wallet appreciated not being out the $300 or so they wanted to do the check.

 

Learned one interesting thing that I sure am glad I had not needed to know and resulted in a question. what on earth were the yamaha engineers thinking when they stuck that fuse block behind the right lower??? all i could think was I am glad i havae not needed to change one of those fuses 1000 miles from home.

 

For the most part all exhaust valve clearances were such that a .007 inch gauge slipped through no sweat. So that is middle of the road on exhaust clearance.

 

Intake valves are all within spec, but barely. 004 inch gauge slips in, with the following noted tool oddity. I had a limited set of feelers in 002 increments for the smaller clearances. So I wanted to see how much room was really there. So I went to o'reilly and bought a 31 blade feeler gauge. The .005" wouldnt slip in any of them, but neither would the .004 from the new gauges. I checked the two .004 feelers I have with calibers and there is about a .0002" difference in them with the new one being a tad thicker.

 

My intakes are all right at the bottom end of the spec. If they were solidly under clearance I

would get the tool and shims and widen it up. Since they are still in spec, think I am going to put it back together, waiting on the gaskets and new plugs and note that I will want to plan on probably having to do the shim shuffle next go around.

 

At least i know where the valves are at now.For what it is worth I also checked them setting position based on the service manual and I think gooses posting and then rechecked by just pointing the cam lobes up. clearances for me were the same in both cases.

 

 

I just hope I can get the beasty back together next weekend or sooner. My left lower had taken an impact somewhere back in time and the outside edge support actually is missing on its back side.

 

Oh a word of warning on those 31 blade feeler gauges. part way through the nut/bolt that holds the wad of them together, the nut fell off. I cant find the nut, but I dont think it went into the engine. I found the washer on the floor far enough away that it looks like it drop somewhere else. Looked in the rocker covers and not sign of it. I think I am going to take a big magnet and drop into the oil pools in the rockers just to makes sure though.

 

bob 2002 midnight

marshall, il

[Flyinfool]

If you are on the bottom edge of the recommended clearance you should adjust it while you are in there. The clearances get smaller with wear. If they get to small you can burn a valve.

[Semi-retired]

Anyway, bike has about 42,000 miles on it. I bought it used with about 28,000 and the dealer told me up front he had not checked the clearances. I put it off for 3 years now, just couldnt justify payiing a dealer to do it as for one I wanted the experience of getting down to that level and my wallet appreciated not being out the $300 or so they wanted to do the check.

Mine's at about 35K miles; I guess it's THAT TIME!

 

Learned one interesting thing that I sure am glad I had not needed to know and resulted in a question. what on earth were the yamaha engineers thinking when they stuck that fuse block behind the right lower??? all i could think was I am glad i havae not needed to change one of those fuses 1000 miles from home.

I'd say my '03 hasn't blown a fuse in six years...but then, of course, I'd immediately blow one tomorrow......500 miles from home!

 

I checked the two .004 feelers I have with calibers and there is about a .0002" difference in them with the new one being a tad thicker.

 

Micrometers are one thing.....feeler gauges are another; I'm guessing the two ten-thousandths of an inch discrepancy wouldn't make a difference in "real life".

 

If you were to do the job again......now......and everything went "smoothly".....how long would you anticipate it would take in total hours? (I'm contemplating doing my own....my dealer wants $284 incl tax......and needs the bike only one day.....and, as you say, if I did it myself, I wouldn't wanna have the bike out of commission for too long!) Oh, and by the way.....did you go ahead and replace any of the shims "while it was apart", as one member recommended?

[revinger]

I did not change shims. They were in spec by the book. I do plan on checking them at next 27k. At my current riding pace that could take two years or more and I will definitely have the tool and shim assortment on hand next check.

[revinger]

Oh on the other question of how long it might take me next time I couldn't fathom a guess. If I had turned around and done another venture the next day I probably could of done it in half the time. In two years I will probably have to relearn everything all over again.

[djh3]

First off bike needs to be completely cold. So I doubt you could take it to the dealer in the AM and get it that afternoon. Maybe, but I have suspicions he would actually do the job. I know I went slow and it took me 2 days. but having done it no I would say I would still have a days work invested in it. By the time you take the gas tank off, remove the left lower, drain the radiator, remove the upper plumbing and valve covers and the forward dog bone your at about 2 hr or so at least. I always run thru the valves a couple times. By this I mean I will go thru check, change the shim if needed and go back thru and recheck to make sure I get the same readings I got once finished. I would say a minimum of 6 hours.

I guess if you took it to the dealer first thing in am, he got it in and stripped off the plastics and put a fan on it, by lunch he may be able to do the valves.

[Flyinfool]

Hmmmmm.......

 

I never even thought about temperature, but it makes sense.

Has anyone ever checked warm and then again cold to see just how much of a difference there is?

[djh3]

Its funny. Back in the day when I messed with drag cars and race cars with mechanical lifters we adjusted them hot. As I can only imagine that is where you want to have the lash, is at operating temp. Now for whatever reason motorcycles now that you mention it are set cold to my knowledge. Part of it might be you couldn't get this thing apart fast enough to check them hot. Oh it will be hot enough to cook you while your trying to take it apart alright.

If I buy another bike I am seriously looking at something with hyd lifters and non-adjustable stuff. Unlike the harleys that are supposed to be a hyd lifter then when something or another goes south you have to change them out to an adjustable push rod. I forget what it is now, but a buddy of mine that is versed on them was telling me about it. Maybe its a valve job around 40K I dunno. I just thought it wa odd the fix was to "cut" the push rod to get it out of the head.

[Money Venture]

The idea is that the metal grows with heat. The lash is the theoretical amount that the metal grows so that the valves do not hang open. That is why they are checked cold. Yes, checking hot would be at all different temperatures and cold is at ambient temp.

[Semi-retired]

First off bike needs to be completely cold. So I doubt you could take it to the dealer in the AM and get it that afternoon.

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I guess if you took it to the dealer first thing in am, he got it in and stripped off the plastics and put a fan on it, by lunch he may be able to do the valves.

 

You're absolutely right, dj: the dealer wants the bike to be cold when they start on it. (He did, in fact, ask me if I could drop the bike off the night before my "appointment" so it would be cold when they start in the morning.

 

He quoted based on THREE hours of shoptime.....so, they must do LOTS of them.....and be damned good at it to finish that quickly. (Can't imagine they "fake" it, because it's a big dealership and they've got a lot of rep riding on the line.)

 

If any of us could do it anywhere NEAR that fast, there's no question we'd do it ourselves, I'm sure!

[Seaking]

The idea is that the metal grows with heat. The lash is the theoretical amount that the metal grows so that the valves do not hang open. That is why they are checked cold. Yes, checking hot would be at all different temperatures and cold is at ambient temp.

 

I've done mine 3 times now.. the LAST thing I'd want to do is do all that work over a hot engine Bad enough in summer heat let alone engine heat.. hence why I do mine over the winter months.. besides, it's easier waiting for shims when there's snow on the ground..

[djh3]

Yea I dont know if I could hit the 3hr mark. They must have a short cut or two. As suggested in the write up here I also changed out the rad fluid and a couple other house keeping items. If you have the time for me its worth saving the $300. If I wasn't rushed I would probably do it for someone for around $150 or so + parts. Up on the air box there is some thin foam gasket things that supposedly seal the intakes horns coming in from the sides. they were junk. I had no idea how I was going to fix that when I put it together. So I figured out about whee they were going to sit, put some petroleum jelly on one side thin and some RTV silicone on the other after it set up a little. then put it together. Should seal and you can still get it apart when you need to.

[Semi-retired]

. If you have the time for me its worth saving the $300. If I wasn't rushed I would probably do it for someone for around $150 or so + parts.

 

Too bad you're 2095 kilometers away! I'd rush my baby right over!

 

Thanks for the offer, though. (You'll probably get other "takers" who are within a little more reasonable range. Check your inbox...........daily.

[ACE50]

Why do you mess with the lowers when doing this? I saw no reason for this.

[Semi-retired]

Hmmmmm.......

 

I never even thought about temperature, but it makes sense.

Has anyone ever checked warm and then again cold to see just how much of a difference there is?

 

OH YEAH......there'll always be a difference between hot and cold........and usually (as someone else mentioned) it's ALMOST equal to the gap you actually want.....minus a couple of thou for safety.

 

On older equipment, with tappets (am I dating myself)...things were ALWAYS "tighter" when hot and looser when cold. Mind you, that was on engines where the gaps got BIGGER (i.e. LOOSER) as things "wore out". It seems strange to me that the shims on the Venture reportedly get TIGHTER as they wear. Doesn't seem to make sense....but, I guess I need to see a diagram. (Any other "old" guys out there who can explain this to me in 25 words or less? )

[Neil86]

Semi Retired.

on the old pushrod valvetrains there was wear occuring at several spots.

With the Venture valvetrain you have the cam lobe directly acting on a

shim on the bucket that covers the valve stem. My 86 has 190,000 kms

on it and the valvetrain looks like new.

 

So there is minimal wear increasing clearance...the issue is with no more lead in

fuels, the valve slowly wears itself into the head as it seats, moving the the stem further up, closer to the cam lobe, reducing clearance.

[Semi-retired]

 

So there is minimal wear increasing clearance...the issue is with no more lead in

fuels, the valve slowly wears itself into the head as it seats, moving the the stem further up, closer to the cam lobe, reducing clearance.

 

Ah, gotcha, Neil.

 

Just seems a little funny that the "non-sliding" parts (valve faces) would wear faster than the shims or cam lobes, but I guess if we're changing our oil as often as we should () that's entirely possible!

[Neil86]

The valve faces don't get oil lubrication, deal with combustion products etc.

[RandyR]

Ah, gotcha, Neil.

 

Just seems a little funny that the "non-sliding" parts (valve faces) would wear faster than the shims or cam lobes, but I guess if we're changing our oil as often as we should () that's entirely possible!

 

The valves 'hammer' into the heads.