92 loses spark

[mxvet274]

New to the site bought a 92 venture with 67000 miles for 500 bucks. Had set for five years tank was clean took carbs off they wasn't too bad. Had to buy a battery but this has me stumped and my local Yamaha mechanic. When you first hit the starter button it fires and tries to start for about a second then loses spark to all cylinders. I read a post from 2010 where the guy had same problem but don't know what he did to fix it.. I checked all wire plugs from safety switches and cleaned switch on handle bar. Tried unhooking tip over switch. What color wire is the safety switch wire that plugs into ecu was gona try unhooking that. Or if anyone has ideas thanks.

[dingy]

Possibly a failing pickup coil or the connection from it to the TCI module.

 

Gary

[MiCarl]

I'm betting on the ignition module (92 isn't TCI, it's computerized). A component is kicking out as soon as it warms up even a little bit.

 

But the way to diagnose it is to rule everything else out first, including all four coils failing.

[mxvet274]

I have a vmax motor 2000 model would pick up coil work from that?

[dingy]

I have a vmax motor 2000 model would pick up coil work from that?

 

Part #'s are the same in parts fiche, so they will interchange.

 

Gary

[mxvet274]

Can you test pick up coil with ohm meter? I wanted to try unplugging safety wire from ecu does anyone no wich color it is?

[dingy]

1st picture shows TCI wiring for a 1990-1993 TCI

 

2nd picture shows TCI pin outs. This is for a 1983-1989 TCI.

 

Kill wire is on pin 'D' as shown in 2nd picture. Kickstand kill switch. Should be a Black wire with a White tracer.

 

Ohm reading on pickup coil should be 81-121 ohms.

 

You also could have a fuel pump power issue, the fuel pump is controlled by TCI on 1990-1993 Ventures. This is the Blue wire with red tracer. Shown on 2nd picture on pin #5 of the 6 pin connector.

 

Gary

Edited April 5, 2014 by dingy

[mxvet274]

Checked pick up coil with meter at plug along frame 95 ohms my vmax was 105 I did this without key on I assume that was correct. I unhooked safety wire from ecu still doing same thing. Fuel pump kicking on and filling carbs. I heard someone saying take ecu off and put in oven at 110 degrees to dry it out? Anything else? I guess this is why the bike sat for five years.

[Prairiehammer]

Checked pick up coil with meter at plug along frame 95 ohms my vmax was 105 I did this without key on I assume that was correct.

 

That same connector has been known to corrode and the corrosion has caused problems, such as intermittent faults.

 

Can you get to TCI (yes, Carl it is still called a TCI, even though it is digital) and ohm out the pickup coil from the TCI connector? Might identify a flakey connector or wire between the pickup coil and the TCI.

[MiCarl]

Regardless of what you call it (Yamaha refers to all of them as "Ignitor"). TCIs for the most part are four separate circuits in one box, triggered by four pick up coils and driving four ignition coils. Relatively few points of failure that will wipe out spark on more than one cylinder.

 

The digital ignitor is one logic unit, triggered by one pick up coil and drives four ignition coils. On this one a single failure in the pick up coil or logic unit (or connection) will wipe out all four cylinders.

 

Apparently the OP is getting spark when he initiates engine cranking but it quickly quits. The pick up coil is just a coil of wire around a core and it isn't likely to be heating up enough to fall flat on it's face until the engine begins to produce heat.

 

On the other hand, the ignitor has solid state components and operates at higher voltage and power. I can see where a failing solid state component could heat up and fail in short order just from its own power consumption. Or maybe a transistor just isn't switching fast enough to deal with higher rpms as the engine speeds up.

 

Regardless though, the trouble shooting procedure is the same: You diagnose ignitor failure by ruling every other possibility out. At somewhat North of $900 for a new one you want to be very sure.

[dingy]

Fuel pump kicking on and filling carbs.

 

It could still be an issue with the fuel pump circuit in TCI. Pump will engage for about 4 seconds when key is turned on, after 4 seconds without the motor starting the TCI will disengage the fuel pump. This is a safety circuit designed to turn off fuel pump in a wreck. What this could be doing is running pump long enough to fill carbs, bike is starting, quickly draining carbs. The 90-93 TCI's have the fuel pump cutoff circuit in the TCI. 83-89 Ventures had a seperate fuel pump relay with the circuitry inside the relay housing. 90-93 stills has a fuel pump relay, but it is a standard style relay.

 

Do you here pump run again after it dies and you turn key off, then back on. If it's running for the 4 second time, it would seem it is pump circuit.

 

This is just a possibility and not a 100% sure fire thing.

 

Gary

[dingy]

 

Regardless though, the trouble shooting procedure is the same: You diagnose ignitor failure by ruling every other possibility out. At somewhat North of $900 for a new one you want to be very sure.

Don't scare him Carl, I will sell him a brand new aftermarket one, much better than stock, for under $300.00

 

Gary

[mxvet274]

No it wont start it tries to but spark plugs only get fire for less than a second. I will meter check pick up coil wire at ecu tomorrow. I have a 2000 vmax I can take the ecu off of If I have to to see if that's what it is. That would be a pain plus I would hate to burn that one up I have seen used ones on ebay for 200 but I guess I would be taking a chance with that.

[Snaggletooth]

Don't scare him Carl, I will sell him a brand new aftermarket one, much better than stock, for under $300.00

 

Gary

 

There ya go. Once you've find the TCI is the problem Dingys upgrade unit to the Ingitech is the answer. I just had my TCI fail suddenly. I could only get up to about 50 MPH. Had to Change it out in the driveway. With only a few tools I had it swapped out and road ready in about an hour. Dingys set up arrived pre programed and with everything needed for install and mounting. Couldn't ask for anything more plug & play. Prefect.

 

Replacing a TCI can be a gamble. Used one might be good or not. Finding a NOS unit, good luck. I had one. Took threes years to run across it.

 

Dingys is more than fairly priced fir what the unit offered. Like. He said, under $300.00 . And don't forget the support Gary offers along with it.

 

Best buy, best value, best support

 

 

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[mxvet274]

My pick up coil wire was 105 at the plug at TCI. Got to checking my fuse block the one with old type glass fuses and found two of the fuses had been replaced with inline fuses. The red with black stripe wire and blue wire was still using original glass fuses. With key on the red n back wire was not hot on side going to Philips screw at top of box. So I crossed it with screw driver and still no fix. I broke fuse holder so im gona put in line fuse in its place. Was gona do the blue also. But the red n black wire that goes to Phillips screw and right next to it is the black with orange tracers that goes to other Phillips screw what do I do with that if I want to get rid of fuse holders? Also If I bought your TCI would it mount somewhere different so I would just leave stock one where it's at? Them screws are a mother to get to. Should I even try taking old one off and drying it out ever heard of that working?

[dingy]

Also If I bought your TCI would it mount somewhere different so I would just leave stock one where it's at? Them screws are a mother to get to. Should I even try taking old one off and drying it out ever heard of that working?

 

Adapter harness wires are 6" long. Map cable is 18" long, hooks to supplied new map sensor. TCI is 4 1/4" x 2 1/2" x 1" It should mount to top of air box with no rewiring. Velcro for mounting included.

 

Link to current thread I have going for them.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82733

 

Much longer thread of the use of the TCI on this forum.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40414

 

Gary

[Flyinfool]

yes you can mount the new TCI on top of the air cleaner and leave the old one where it is. The factory wire harness is long enough to do this with no modifications.

 

Does the 92 still have the issue with the 8 diodes that die of old age?

Replacing these will never bring a bad TCI back to life, but if one of those 8 diodes fails it will take the TCI with it. Replacing them is a preventive measure.

There are people that have opened up their TCI to change the diodes and found liquid water inside. Baking can remove the water.

 

Skydoc_17 sells a kit with good instructions for replacing the factory glass fuse block with a modern one. Well worth it.

That red/black wire is only the accessory circuit for the radio, no need to worry about that right now.

[MiCarl]

Take care of the fuse box first. One of us should have thought of that.

 

I haven't reviewed the electrical diagram but it'd be a shame if your problem was caused by an intermittent connection there. You're going to have to fix it anyhow so might as well rule that out.

[Rosie1965]

I think I would try jumping 12 volts right to the coil circuit before getting too carried away with changing parts. If it fires up at that point then you can start eliminating the different switches. I've had cars in the past that would fire while cranking then lose the ignition when backing off. You might inadvertently be sending juice to the ignition by back feeding off the start circuit, then letting up on starter you lose your source.

[mxvet274]

Took my TCI off and opened it up wasn't wet inside did not see anything obvious. I guess I need to buy one of your after market one's Gary. Im still not 100% sure that is my problem. Heck I have not even heard this bike run yet I hope nothing wrong with motor. Can I return TCI If that wasn't It? I think I might try taking the one off my vmax first. Anyone know where its located on the vmax?

[mxvet274]

Can anyone tell me for sure wich wire at the TCI is the safety switch wire. I disconnected the black n white wire that didn't help. Just want to make sure im eliminating that possibility before buying new TCI. Also I have the TCI board out of the case and hooked back up what should I check with meter to eliminate everything else?

[mxvet274]

Can anyone help me out with my last questions. Just trying to make sure im eliminating everything before I purchase TCI from Gary. Or if anyone intrested I would sell bike for what I got in it 750.00 Im located in Mattoon, Illinois

[Rosie1965]

Or if anyone intrested I would sell bike for what I got in it 750.00 Im located in Mattoon, Illinois

But you only gave $500 for it

[Neil86]

Yes you need for the Black/White wire in the smaller plug to be open (no ground) for the TCi to operate.

 

Have you checked for battery voltage on the Red/Black & the Black on the bigger plug

(key ON, kill switch in RUN position).

[Neil86]

you have an email Mrvet....