I Need A...

[Condor]

1986 CYL KIT,MASTER (rear)

4W1-W0041-00-00 1 $32.34 (same for 1993, BTW)

 

83 CYL KIT,MASTER (rear)

26H-W0041-50-00 1 $40.92

 

Two different prices

 

I've noticed that. I needed an oil seal for the clutch push rod and looked it up in my price list. Got two hits. One for $3.00 something, and the other for 7.50 and change. Same exact same part number. When I ordered it from the local Yamaha dealer they charged me the lower price, and didn't memtion the huigher listing. So.... just becasue you run into two different pricess for the same part number doesn't neccessarly mean that it's a different part.....

[Neil86]

Folks.....the W0041 is not the part number...its the identifier of what the part is....unless you have the exact same prefix, its a different part.

look at these rear master cyl kits (all from Mrcycles.com) for models from a 1984 RZ350 thru to a 2003 YZ125. I just randomly picked models with rear disc brakes. Because the Venture used linked brakes, the master cylinder may have been identified separately (W0041 vs W0042 for these)

 

MASTER CYLINDER KIT Rear 1984 RZ350

4GY-W0042-00-00 (replaces 29L-W0042-50-00) 1 $20.78

 

CYL KIT,MASTER Rear 1984 FJ600

33M-W0042-50-00 1 $47.40

CYLINDER KIT, MASTER Rear 2000 FJR1300

5JW-W0042-50-00 1 $30.98

 

CYLINDER KIT, MASTER Rear 2003 YZ125

5UN-W0042-50-00 1 $23.17

 

I just don't want someone getting hurt swapping parts here.

[GigaWhiskey]

1984

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1984-Yamaha-Venture-Royale-XVZ12-Rear-Brake-Master-Cyl_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35592QQihZ002QQitemZ120229966551QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

1986

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAHA-VENTURE-ROYALE-XVZ-13-1986-REAR-MASTER-CYLINDER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ35592QQihZ017QQitemZ270212299508QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[Condor]

Folks.....the W0041 is not the part number...its the identifier of what the part is....unless you have the exact same prefix, its a different part.

look at these rear master cyl kits (all from Mrcycles.com) for models from a 1984 RZ350 thru to a 2003 YZ125. I just randomly picked models with rear disc brakes. Because the Venture used linked brakes, the master cylinder may have been identified separately (W0041 vs W0042 for these)

 

MASTER CYLINDER KIT Rear 1984 RZ350

4GY-W0042-00-00 (replaces 29L-W0042-50-00) 1 $20.78

 

CYL KIT,MASTER Rear 1984 FJ600

33M-W0042-50-00 1 $47.40

CYLINDER KIT, MASTER Rear 2000 FJR1300

5JW-W0042-50-00 1 $30.98

 

CYLINDER KIT, MASTER Rear 2003 YZ125

5UN-W0042-50-00 1 $23.17

 

I just don't want someone getting hurt swapping parts here.

 

I fianlly found the info and according to what Squeeze posted the W0042 IS the part number.

 

On the Parts Number the first three Digits indicate the Bike which used the Part first Time. next 5 Numbers are the Parts-No itself. Next two Digits indicate superceeded or modified Parts. Last two Digits ... don't know. This applies to Parts. Nuts, Bolts, Seals are specified different.

[Neil86]

Condor.....

heres a pretty obvious example...3 bikes...3 very different head covers, even look at the picture on the fiche.....

GASKET, HD.COVER 1 1983 Venture

26H-11193-00-00 2 $23.68

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 FJR1300

5JW-11193-00-00 1 $13.87

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 YZ 450F

5TA-11193-00-00 1 $19.90

[Squeeze]

Condor.....

heres a pretty obvious example...3 bikes...3 very different head covers, even look at the picture on the fiche.....

GASKET, HD.COVER 1 1983 Venture

26H-11193-00-00 2 $23.68

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 FJR1300

5JW-11193-00-00 1 $13.87

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 YZ 450F

5TA-11193-00-00 1 $19.90

 

But, i can assure you, if the frist three Digits are different, it is not a different Parts by all Meanings. There are a Lot of Parts interchangeable even when then carry a different Parts Number. A Lot of Vmax Parts fit to Ventures and vice versa.

 

Once, i even looked up a Parts Number from a Vmax (Tank Sensor) and compared it to the same Parts from a 1999 YZF-R1. They are different in first three Digits, so are the Sensors, but the main Difference is the Length of the Sensor inside the Tank. Mounting, Sealing anything except the Lenght and the Connector is the same.

 

So, in Case of Repair Kit, which is only in Question to determine if the Piston Diameters are the same or different, you can say just that the Repair Kit have different Numbers on the first three Digits. You can't say, they will be interchangeable or not. If the Parts number would have been exactly the same, now you take it as Fact that they are not different and the Piston Diameters are the same.

 

As you reseached, the Fact that the same 5 Digits carry the Number for the same Part in different Bikes is quite interesting, i never thought about that and it's good to know, but won't help me anything when i'm looking for the Parts number of any Part on my Bike. But i would buy the Beer if someone could explain me the overall standing Logik behing all this.

[Condor]

Condor.....

heres a pretty obvious example...3 bikes...3 very different head covers, even look at the picture on the fiche.....

GASKET, HD.COVER 1 1983 Venture

26H-11193-00-00 2 $23.68

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 FJR1300

5JW-11193-00-00 1 $13.87

GASKET, HEAD COVER 1 2003 YZ 450F

5TA-11193-00-00 1 $19.90

 

Of course they're different. The first three digits designate which bike they fit, the second set of 5 is the valve cover gasket part number... the same throughout. Different prices for each. I guess I'm a little dense, but what are you making an example of??? In one of your previous posts you stated that the W0041 was not the part number, and I still stand by my statement that it is..... In your above example the 11193 is the valve cover gasket part nember, just like the W0041 is the rebuild kit number.

[Condor]

 

As you reseached, the Fact that the same 5 Digits carry the Number for the same Part in different Bikes is quite interesting, i never thought about that and it's good to know, but won't help me anything when i'm looking for the Parts number of any Part on my Bike. But i would buy the Beer if someone could explain me the overall standing Logik behing all this.

 

Squeeze, just a guess here, but it probably revolves around a manufacturing system, and parts people needing to identify a particular part without having to look up the number for each one they need. Much easier to learn memorize one number rather than a different number for every part. Also much easier to maintain inventory.????

[Squeeze]

Squeeze, just a guess here, but it probably revolves around a manufacturing system, and parts people needing to identify a particular part without having to look up the number for each one they need. Much easier to learn memorize one number rather than a different number for every part. Also much easier to maintain inventory.????

 

I can't imagine a Wrench Guy coming to the the Warehouse Guy and saying "hey, please give me a 11 139 for a RP12" :rotf::rotf:Even it he says this in Japanese.

 

I could imagine, that this System is Part of trying to get a Structure into a Lot of Parts in different Models. This Structure could makes '11139' a Head Cover. Sort of how to manage the individual Part, it's Size, Weight and a lot of other Parameters which come into Play when running a Plant and a Inventory in a Warehouse. If you apply such a Structure to any new Model wich is ought to be produced, it may come in real handy and cheaper to manage.

 

But i never ever heard about it in the Past. Maybe, we're onto something here and are on our Way to reinvent the Wheel. But what to do with the new gained Knowledge? :whistling:

[Cdnlouie]

Great discussion fellows! Good research on the part number dilemma.

 

There is only one thing for certain with the same part number:

 

- If it is the exact number of a previous bike then it is the same part.

 

 

There are a number of things true about different part numbers:

 

- if you are on the inside track with Yamaha and know the new numbers assigned to later models you can be sure it is the same part (Ie. second gear changes and drive axle changes).

- different part numbers do not necessarily mean the part is different. The first three digits can belong to different models but still be the same part (or not). As noted there can be variations in other digits and sitll be the same part (or not).

 

Conclusion: The only for certain way to know a part is different is to visually inspect the part. This of course applies specifically to dimensional changes rather than material changes. Part numbers are an imperfect system.

 

 

What to do:

 

If someone can measure or compare visually the two master cylinders front and rear, then we can know whether they are the same or different (or some parts are different).

 

Does this make sense?

 

 

P.S. Getting back to bongbob's problem, the original master cylinders (83-85) may be sufficient since they may be the same as the later units (86 up) or maybe even more powerful because we must remember that the first antidive units bleed off significant pressure to run the hydraulic antidive, and if you disconnect those units or replace them with the electric antidives you have a lot more fluid pressure available (50% more pressure) for your braking. Some guys have done this and noticed a measurable difference.

 

My original point was that the original master cylinders may be totally sufficient to run the newer 4 piston calipers. I don't know this for sure, but I would be surprised if you noticed any significant problem with good braking. I intend to try it myself, but I may not get to this upgrade this year.

 

The point here is not that you necessarily need more volume of fluid, but you need sufficient hydraulic pressure to operate the 4 pistons. If the brake hoses are the same size on these bikes then the source pressure is pretty much going to be the same getting to a 4 piston or 2 piston caliper. A significant variable is the addition of stainless steel lines where you get a significant pressure boost (to the lines) because of the decreased loss to rubber expansion.

[Neil86]

What I'm trying to say is that the W0041 is the generic number of the part description. Without the prefix and suffix you don't have a part number, and without the same prefix you don't have the exact same part.

They could have denoted the parts as

26H-master cyl rebuilt kit rear-00-00 for a 83 Venture

33M-master cyl rebuilt kit rear-50-00 for a 84 FJ600

but relying on spelling in part numbers is bad biz.

As I said many posts ago, some parts on the 2nd gen Venture still have the 26H prefix, first used on 83 Venture. I believe the clutch hub for the rear wheel is one and the complete whole number matches the 83 -93 part numbers, they are a swappable part.

Now doesn't it seem strange Yamaha would keep that part number the same?....nope...simplifies their inventory.

The fact that Yamaha changed the prefix on the later master rebuild kits means the part changed .....perhaps not enough to matter....but I won't chance it on my bike.