Rvator Posted March 17, 2014 #1 Posted March 17, 2014 on my last ride, the starter engagement clutch started to lock up intermmitently for a few seconds, then let go, finally spinning the starter to death. Problem is I can't see any problem with the clutch, rollers are all good, no apparent damage, maybe the bushing in the 72 t gear is too loose, don't know what the clearance should be, but no obvious sign of damage. ???? Anybody had this problem?
Rvator Posted March 17, 2014 Author #2 Posted March 17, 2014 just to clarify, the clutch engagement was happening at highway speeds, multiple times, as I was pulling into the driveway it finally stalled the engine.
Snaggletooth Posted March 17, 2014 #3 Posted March 17, 2014 Hey, howdy and welcome to the site. I'm on my cell so i can see what bike you have. If you have a first Gen there is a first and last fix for an engage problem. Do a search for Dano Starter Engage Mod. Be the last time you ever concern yourself with it. I was one of the first to have this done several years ago. Flawless performance with 40,000 miles on it. But problems begin with things like those 3 little springs, wear on the contact points where the engage rollers seat in the body and more the worst then the interior hub in the engage cracks where you can't see it. That's when the hammering starts during starting. You can try to rebuild but its not always a fix. Danos mod replaces the entire assembly including a new and different 72 tooth ring gear. Read up in the posts found from a search and it will answer all your questions. From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.
Flyinfool Posted March 17, 2014 #4 Posted March 17, 2014 And I got the second starter clutch that Dano did, It has also been flawless. I have never heard of a starter clutch going in and out of engagement while riding. But if it did engage while at speed, you could end up driving the starter at 70,000 RPM. Take a good look at the surface of the 72T gear where the roller run on, if there are any visible lines pressed into it, it is toast. When you opened it up, was everything well coated with oil, I do not know if it is possible to have a plugged oil line and starving the clutch of oil. It helps us all if you fill in what bike you have in your profile, so that it appears under your name. Sometimes it makes a big difference in the answer that you get to a question. See this thread. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58880 Welcome aboard
Rvator Posted March 18, 2014 Author #5 Posted March 18, 2014 thanks for the replys. I have looked at most of the info regarding the engagement clutch, but none seem to talk about the same symptoms. My starter has never had any of the problems that are talked about. My concern is that I put new parts in and the same thing happens again. I suspect an oil starvation problem, but don't know how to verify it. I presume oil is supplied from the crank? What is the purpose of the "oil wire"? mystery to me what it could possibly be there for!
Rvator Posted March 18, 2014 Author #6 Posted March 18, 2014 posting things here in random order. Bike is 84 venture 1200. The starter did come apart from over speed, the commutator was completely disintigrated. Everytime the clutch engaged, a loud screech and the engine lugged down, then it let go. I was close to home so I kept going, didn't want to get stranded on the highway.
Marcarl Posted March 18, 2014 #7 Posted March 18, 2014 I'm guessing that it's the switch on the handle bar that is giving you problems,,, it wouldn't be the first time.
bongobobny Posted March 18, 2014 #8 Posted March 18, 2014 The oil wire, if it is what I think you are talking about is in the center of the stator and it's purpose is to sling oil on the stator to keep it cool. It was a modification by the factory to correct a design flaw on the earlier MK1 that caused the stator to overheat and fail. Every once in a while those kits still appear on ebay! When you replace your starter motor buy one from a 2nd generation Venture. They have 4 brushes as opposed to 2 and make a world of difference when starting when the engine is hot! It should run you around $50 - $75 on ebay. Getting back to the starter also upgrade your battery wires to thicker cables to improve hot starting conditions and switch to an AGM battery like the DEKA or the Odessey...
Flyinfool Posted March 18, 2014 #9 Posted March 18, 2014 I'm guessing that it's the switch on the handle bar that is giving you problems,,, it wouldn't be the first time. But if it was the switch, that could cause the starter motor to run, but the clutch would still not engage to cause the extreme over speed of the starter motor. The starter clutch would / should still allow the crankshaft to continue spinning at engine rpm and the starter to spin at starter RPM. Yes this would wear out the starter motor, but it would not blow it up from an extreme over speed. I still think that this has to be an issue with the starter clutch. But then I could be wrong again.... That "oil wire" is supposed to be part of the stator cooling, it is supposed to help spray the oil coming out of the hollow bolt outward to cool the stator. Can you post pics of the starter motor destruction and of the starter clutch parts? Maybe we can see something you are missing. I do not remember ever seeing a post with your exact symptoms, so we are all guessing a bit here.
Snaggletooth Posted March 18, 2014 #10 Posted March 18, 2014 I missed the "engage at speed" issue in the second post. There the start button is certainly suspect. If that button is sticking down and not fully releasing you will probably see other signs like no head light. That button when pressed shuts off power to the headlight until released to save current draw from the battery until bikes starts. The bike will start and run with the button stuck down but the starter will still be under power. The engage in normal condition should not be locked in at normal engine running rpms. Not good for the starter but should not cause any other type of damage. I'm interested in what you find. From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.
Rvator Posted March 20, 2014 Author #11 Posted March 20, 2014 I will post pics when I can figure out how. The oil wire is a factory piece, shown in the repair manuals, but no explanation of its purpose. Does anyone know if the crankshaft supplies pressured oil to the bushing that the engagement clutch spins on? Seems like it should to lube the bushing. If thats the case, I'm concerned that maybe the oil supply was restricted and the bushing started to seize on the crankshaft, but no obvious signs such as you would see on a spun crank bearing.
Squeeze Posted March 25, 2014 #12 Posted March 25, 2014 From probably 80 to 100 Starter Clutches i've modded in the past Years, i've seen three Starter Clutches definitely not disengaging and around another five who have been very suspicious looking that way. Two Starter Motors had to be replaced, iirc. Some Idler Gears almost looked like had made their Way inside the Tranny. So, what i'm saying, there's no need to look for any other Cause than the Starter Clutch. If the Bushing inside the 76th Wheel wouldn't have been lubed, it would have left a very Blue End on the Crank Shaft, as well as a blue to black Hub on the 76th Wheel. I saw that, the Wheel is still lying in my Horror Cabinet. If you want to do yourself a Favor, give Dano a Shout and have him mount our modded Starter Clutch, Problem solved forever ...
dingy Posted March 25, 2014 #13 Posted March 25, 2014 Haven't seen you on in a while Squeeze, you doing OK? Gary
Squeeze Posted March 25, 2014 #14 Posted March 25, 2014 Haven't seen you on in a while Squeeze, you doing OK? Gary Sure Gary, crazy busy and overworked, each Day should be at least 36 Hours to have 6 to 7 Hours of Sleep per Night, but other than this, yes, i'm Ok. Just finished electronic troubleshooting on my Buddies VMAX, Wiring Harness PowerCommander, TPS, APS, and whatnot else, all in all around 40 Hours with fittin' the new Otec Lock-Up Clutch on his '09. First Ride of the Year was last Week, 20 mls, now it's too cold for me again. Besides 12 Hours a Day Job, a large Honey-Do List, fighting with my sh..ty Myriwell 3D Printer, studying PTC Creo to create the Parts my Printer won't print very well .. you know, the normal Stuff a Man is kept busy with all Day and most of the Night ...
Snaggletooth Posted March 26, 2014 #15 Posted March 26, 2014 Dang Lutz, was just thinking about you the other day. Good to see you could find your way to the keyboard. With all your spare time you sure could use a hobby. LOL. Don't hurt me! You bought a Rune yet? Mike From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.
Yammer Dan Posted March 26, 2014 #16 Posted March 26, 2014 Yeah good to see you are still kicking Squeeze!!
Squeeze Posted March 26, 2014 #17 Posted March 26, 2014 Mike, ah please .... a Rune ?? Did i miss the Memo and they converted it to a really powerful V4 Engine ? If so, i'd probably look into that, but if not, never ever ....
Snaggletooth Posted March 27, 2014 #18 Posted March 27, 2014 LOL! Had to throw that at ya. I remember ya had to comb your tail feathers after our last conversation where I mentioned the "R" word. Got to keep in touch with you somehow. Take care Lutz. I know your busy season is just kicking in. Mike From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now