Greasing rear wheel pins and splines

[frankd]

I just received my tube of Honda 60 Moly paste and started to wonder what the difference between grease and paste was. It appears to me that the difference is the amount of moly....grease is about 3% moly and paste is much higher (Moly 60 is 60% moly) and also much stickier so it won't sling off. While doing this internet research, I found many different greases/pastes were used, including some really high priced stuff. I've been using moly grease for the drive shaft splines, but on my Mk I, I need to refresh it every 10-12K. On my Mk II, it lasts better. For the rear tire to shaft unit splines, the Yamaha manual says to use lithium based grease. A long time ago my dealer recommended waterproof Bel-Ray lithium grease and I've been using it on these splines and also the pins. However things are pretty dry at 10,000 miles.

 

Does anybody use something better for the tire to shaft unit splines? Rear wheel pins? How good does Moly 60 hold up in Mk I driveshaft splines?

 

Frank D.

[Ben Rollins]

Was wondering myself, I want to repack mine soon and want to know what is best to use.

[Kirby]

I don't have a 1st Gen, but it (MOLY 60) is still there when I replace tires on my 2nd Gen. I clean it all out and repack both the splines and the fingers at every tire change. This is usually every 14-18K miles.

[Marcarl]

I use Lucas Ex-tra Heavy Duty wheel bearing grease and my splines are still wet every time I change my tire.

[Money Venture]

What about the boat spline grease? It is supposed to be waterproof. They use it on I/O boats where the outdrive slides into the spline.

[Marcarl]

What about the boat spline grease? It is supposed to be waterproof. They use it on I/O boats where the outdrive slides into the spline.

Yep, that might work, but it's not the qualities that you really need. Marine has water repellant qualities and the you are looking for anti-sling qualities,,, could have the same effect, but a new spline hub is about $100 so not worth the chance, to me anyways.

[Jimbob66]

I use moly grease from these guys.

 

http://www.guarddogmoly.com/

 

I was given the tip from my friends who are into Honda Valkyrie's and are dedicated to the restoration and preservation of those bikes. It seems Valks are really tough on rear drives. High horsepower and age contribute I'm sure.

 

Try the GD 570 (73% Moly) from Guard dog.

It is expensive. It is also hard to clean off of just about anything. However, it works. The Honda guys swear by it. I've had good luck with it.

 

A few tips I have been taught.

Clean the spline well before lubing them. Moly doesn't stick to grease well.

Rub the Moly "into" the metal. Kind of like polishing it.

Cleanliness is the key. Make darn sure that tire and wheel are free of sand etc. Use compressed air and clean the areas as well as possible.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Jimbob66

[camos]

I just received my tube of Honda 60 Moly paste and started to wonder what the difference between grease and paste was. It appears to me that the difference is the amount of moly....grease is about 3% moly and paste is much higher (Moly 60 is 60% moly) and also much stickier so it won't sling off.

Frank D.

Very timely post, I just got my new rear tire mounted and intended to grease the rear wheel splines before re-installing the wheel. So now it appears that it is not just the splines that need doing but the fingers too. Not sure exactly what the fingers are though. Is there a How-To in the tech section?

 

Found a reference to moly grease and high tech substitutes at ( http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Shaft.html#Grease )which might be of interest. I seem to recall reading that the Honda 60 moly was normally available through the Honda car dealerships. Anyone know if that is right?

 

Just to throw a wrench into the works, I just found this posted in a forum thread that is discussing moly paste versus moly grease.

The thread is here:

http://cx500forum.com/forum/technical-help-forum/18104-honda-moly-60-paste-vs-loctite-moly-65-paste-2.html

 

Excerpt:

No! No! No! No matter which brand you choose, moly paste is assembly lube, not spline lube. Why are we still talking about which incorrect lubricant is best?

 

 

 

You want a lithium based, moly fortified MULTIPURPOSE GREASE for the splines. Valvoline makes some of this.

- Its what Honda says to use.

 

- You can get it anywhere.

 

- It costs about half the price of the much smaller tube of Moly 60 (which is absolutely not the right lubricant for splines)(if you don't believe me click the link I posted to NGW and watch the video).

 

- You can put it in your grease gun and use it just about everywhere on your bike that has a zerk.

Edited April 23, 2014 by camos

[ediddy]

Yamaha sent a factory rep to my dealership to inspect my bike because of problems I had with the rear end. The factory rep said to use honda moly 60 and sent the yamaha mechanic to the honda dealership to pick up some. The yamaha factory rep said he used honda moly 60 for his personal use also.

[Geobob]

I did not want to start a new thread so I am posting on this one. Hope that is the best way. Please let me know if there is a better thread on the subject. I looked and could not find what I was looking for.

 

I think I have had to do this previously. I took my rear wheel off to replace the tire and the drive splines on the wheel were rusty and almost gone. Why, well maybe I did not use the good moly paste that is $20 a ounce. So now I am shopping on ebay for replacement. Are the first gen and second get drive sprockets interchangeable. And dose anyone have an idea why the splines went dry, rusted and wore down. It was only a 6-7K miles since I greased it last.

[cowpuc]

I did not want to start a new thread so I am posting on this one. Hope that is the best way. Please let me know if there is a better thread on the subject. I looked and could not find what I was looking for.

 

I think I have had to do this previously. I took my rear wheel off to replace the tire and the drive splines on the wheel were rusty and almost gone. Why, well maybe I did not use the good moly paste that is $20 a ounce. So now I am shopping on ebay for replacement. Are the first gen and second get drive sprockets interchangeable. And dose anyone have an idea why the splines went dry, rusted and wore down. It was only a 6-7K miles since I greased it last.

Geobob , it is very interesting that you are posting this up now,,, makes me wonder if you were here at the house watching me work on my 83 in front of the garage today!!!!! I am in the process of prepping for the west coast/Sturgis and other summer CTFW activities and was convinced to try one of these new multi-tread, expensive, +20,000 mile E-4's to try not have to swap out rear tires 2 or three times on the journey. While replacing the worn out Shinko that I put on new earlier this spring I noticed that, as normal, my gears and drive pins were dry again too = this is normal from my experience = new tire = grease time.. Then it occurred to me,, what if this new E-4 really is capable of crossing America coast to coast (there and back) 6 times as Dunlop suggests = ,, what if those drive pins and gears that are always dry (and sometimes rust covered) now are subject to x5 on the miles !!!! I went down to O-Reily auto and explained it to them and they sold me some special Lucas grease that is called "Red and Sticky" or something like that.. It says right on the front of the tube it stays grease for temps over 500 degrees and is super sticky.. I have used many many types of greases in that application and, to date, have found nothing that really lasts = I am hoping this new Lucas stuff is worthy. I did make a series of video's thru out the day that covers start to finish of the whole process, including greasing the pins.. You might keep an eye on the water hole over the next couple days if your interested.. I would be happy to start the upload earlier if it may help...

Puc

[cimmer]

Very timely post, I just got my new rear tire mounted and intended to grease the rear wheel splines before re-installing the wheel. So now it appears that it is not just the splines that need doing but the fingers too. Not sure exactly what the fingers are though. Is there a How-To in the tech section?

 

Excerpt:

 

I have attached an URL to the Yamaha part fiche to use to explain this, https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/5107f83bf870022108d65785/rear-wheel

What we are talking about with fingers is the pins (#9) on the diagram and the hub clutch (#8). By removing the circlip (#12) you can pull out the hub clutch and pins and grease the pins. These are what transfer the power to the rear wheel from the pumpkin assembly.

 

It is also a good time to grease all the joints in the a-arm assembly also as they need grease, especially if you dont have grease zerks installed in them and if not, you can also install them yourself as I believe there is a article in the tech library on how to do that.

 

 

Hope this helps..

 

Rick F.

[jasonm.]

there is a "dust hub seal" around the splines of the wheel. 1J7-25319-01-00. If this is bad you will lose grease. Every tire change my splines a still greasy. I use Sta-lube synthetic Caliper/brake grease , has moly, graphite and teflon + other friction inhibitors. My splines are good after 30 years and 100k miles. I talked to Bob, he said the "rear drives" run hot. Yes some do and others don't. My original did run hot since day one, enough to scare you when changing the gear oil or possibly burn your hand just touching the drive assy.. ...but at 90k there was slight slop in ring vs. pinion gears. So I got a low mileage replacement. . The replacement does NOT run hot at all .

Edited July 11, 2018 by jasonm.

[Air Ready Auto]

Had some salesman sell me this stuff. Said on the container that it's good to be used as fifth wheel grease and a whole bunch of other stuff. Was wondering if anybody has ever tried this on the rear splines or anywhere else? @cowpuc you mentioned in a previous thread that you've used just about everything on the market. Ever try this one? Got the stuff for cheap so I'm not too worried if it doesn't work. I got plenty of other stuff I can slather it on.

[gaj1917]

I talked to Bob, he said the "rear drives" run hot. Yes some do and others don't. My original did run hot since day one, enough to scare you when changing the gear oil or possibly burn your hand just touching the drive assy.. ...but at 90k there was slight slop in ring vs. pinion gears. So I got a low mileage replacement. . The replacement does NOT run hot at all .

Glad I'm not the only one whose rear drive runs hot. Does exactly that on my '84. Sort of bothered me.

[jasonm.]

Glad I'm not the only one whose rear drive runs hot. Does exactly that on my '84. Sort of bothered me.

Plus i always have used synthetic gear oil. Usually mobil1 75/140

[gaj1917]

Plus i always have used synthetic gear oil. Usually mobil1 75/140

I guess if it was a problem the arse would have come out of'er a long time ago.

[greenbeenie]

I use moly grease from these guys.

 

http://www.guarddogmoly.com/

 

I was given the tip from my friends who are into Honda Valkyrie's and are dedicated to the restoration and preservation of those bikes. It seems Valks are really tough on rear drives. High horsepower and age contribute I'm sure.

 

Try the GD 570 (73% Moly) from Guard dog.

It is expensive. It is also hard to clean off of just about anything. However, it works. The Honda guys swear by it. I've had good luck with it.

 

A few tips I have been taught.

Clean the spline well before lubing them. Moly doesn't stick to grease well.

Rub the Moly "into" the metal. Kind of like polishing it.

Cleanliness is the key. Make darn sure that tire and wheel are free of sand etc. Use compressed air and clean the areas as well as possible.

 

Just FYI, GuardDogMoly went out of business in 2016.

-Green Beenie

[dna9656]

I can't find a recommendation in the Service Manual to lube these parts. I searched the TSBs I have for this issue and have found nothing. It may be "best shop practice" and that's fine but curiosity demands to know if Yamaha ever addressed it in writing....

Yes i lube the ones on my bikes because allthe old heads here on the forum say to, but still....Just sayin'!

[luvmy40]

I can't find a recommendation in the Service Manual to lube these parts. I searched the TSBs I have for this issue and have found nothing. It may be "best shop practice" and that's fine but curiosity demands to know if Yamaha ever addressed it in writing....

Yes i lube the ones on my bikes because allthe old heads here on the forum say to, but still....Just sayin'!

 

 

Just wondering if Yamaha figured everyone would go to a dealership for new tires and made it SOP for the service department to lube the spline and fingers and not seeing a need to list that in the owners manual?

[M61A1MECH]

I can't find a recommendation in the Service Manual to lube these parts. I searched the TSBs I have for this issue and have found nothing. It may be "best shop practice" and that's fine but curiosity demands to know if Yamaha ever addressed it in writing....

Yes i lube the ones on my bikes because allthe old heads here on the forum say to, but still....Just sayin'!

 

So check out the read only technical section for the Royal Star Venture here on VR, here are two links for rear end maintenance.

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?13263-Rear-Hub-Lubrication

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?1705-Rear-End-Noise-Yamaha-TSB. Same as TSB M2005-015

 

If you do not have a copy of TSB M2005-017 PM me and we can work out how I can send you a copy.

 

Update:

Sorry I just noticed that this thread is in the GEN 1 forum, not Gen 2, my bad, but TSB M2005-017 applies to all shaft driven models from Yamaha.

Edited August 25, 2018 by M61A1MECH
correction

[dna9656]

Just wondering if Yamaha figured everyone would go to a dealership for new tires and made it SOP for the service department to lube the spline and fingers and not seeing a need to list that in the owners manual?

 

Well, the "STEALER" (otherwise known as the DEALER but called the derogatory nom de plume for the prices they charge) is the last place I would go for tires or parts. $135.00 to change a tire on the front of my Road Star is crazy. Buying a tire there and paying more than $20.00 irks me; on the Shaft Drive Venture or any bike's front tire. Now I'm prolly going to get into trouble here.... The dealer makes $$ on the tire and then wants upwards of $100.00 to change it for you? I change my own....

The dealers I have used won't do ONE thing that's not (a CYA thing I'm sure and i can't blame them) on the work order and if it is on the W/O they (that's how they make their $$ but it seems I'm always the guy they are making the Month on) charge for it.

There was a Triumph Dealer down the road that charged $20.00 per if you brought the wheels in... i was all over that... but they closed up, couldn't sell enough Triumphs or charged too little to change tires, i don't know which it might have been.

RS Ventures aren't Venture Royales but I know nothing (mechanically) about them. Are they shaft or belt drive?

I know shop rates are crazy high and the book shows an hour to change a tire, a Suzuki dealer once told me that he know he could get 1 hour for a tire change but felt that it was too expensive and guys wouldn't buy anything else from him if he charged the hour labor....

OK rant over!

I'd just like to know if Yamaha ever recommended (since it's not in the SM it would have to be a TSB) lubing the pins or if it's just good shop practice....

[dna9656]

I can't find a recommendation in the Service Manual to lube these parts. I searched the TSBs I have for this issue and have found nothing. It may be "best shop practice" and that's fine but curiosity demands to know if Yamaha ever addressed it in writing....

Yes i lube the ones on my bikes because allthe old heads here on the forum say to, but still....Just sayin'!

 

Yamaha's TSB M2005-017 says this:

 

Models equipped with shaft drive offer the advantage

of reduced maintenance compared to chain

drive. However, normal maintenance is not eliminated.

One often overlooked shaft drive maintenance

procedure is the periodic application

of grease to final drive splines, and rear wheel

clutch components, and the examination of their

associated seals. This should be done whenever

the rear wheel is removed, such as during a tire

change.

Use Yamaha Multipurpose Grease

(P/N: ACC-GREAS-16-TB) or equivalent. All we have to do now is figure out what the equivalent is and we'll have this figgered out!

I couldn't bring the illustration from the Adobie file

and the italics, bolt and underline are mine for emphasis.

Edited August 26, 2018 by dna9656

[RSTDdog]

RS Ventures aren't Venture Royales but I know nothing (mechanically) about them. Are they shaft or belt drive?

 

I'd just like to know if Yamaha ever recommended (since it's not in the SM it would have to be a TSB) lubing the pins or if it's just good shop practice....

 

The Royal Star Venture', Royal Star tour deluxe are all shaft drive just like the Original Venture.

 

When i worked in a Multiline Japanese dealership in the early 1990's (Honda Yamaha Suzuki) all the mechanics there grease drive splines and drive pins at tire changes (Goldwings, Ventures, Cavalcades, XS1100, Honda CB bike with shaft drive, etc) and I was taught to do that. Shaft Drive is a not a new thing and All moving mechanical parts subject to metal-metal contact and friction typically need some type of grease, so I would say yes it's good mechanical practice even if not spelled out in a service manual.

 

I haven't reviewed a Royal Star Service manual in a while, and have never reviewed a first gen manual. I have however reviewed my share of Yamaha service manuals for a variety of their products including waverunners. Yamaha assumes a certain amount of mechanical knowledge when writing their Factory Service Manuals. You also have to hunt for information or pick it out. The manual typically has a blow out diagram on the first page of the section you are working on, say Final drive unit. That blow out diagram typically has little pictograms (Icons we call them now) in it with arrows pointing to things that need loctite, grease, etc. They will have a picture of grease gun with an M in the middle for Moly based grease, LB in the middle for Lithium Based Grease, A bottle shape with a 242 for Loctite 242, etc. Sometimes this info makes it into the step by step instructions, sometimes the only place you see what to grease is in the blow out diagram and nowhere else. Somewhere in the front of the manual in the general section is an index with all the different pictograms and a corresponding Yamaha part number and description of the grease, loctite, sealant , etc. so you have to flip back there to see exactly what to use, at least by part number.

 

All the mechanics I worked with back then had all been through the factory training, some of it hands on factory training classes, we also had whole series of video training tapes. May have been part of the factory training or even training from MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute).

 

As pointed out earlier in the thread, also inspect the seal. Any good quality grease should stay in there for a normal tire interval.

[dna9656]

The Royal Star Venture', Royal Star tour deluxe are all shaft drive just like the Original Venture.

 

When i worked in a Multiline Japanese dealership in the early 1990's (Honda Yamaha Suzuki) all the mechanics there grease drive splines and drive pins at tire changes (Goldwings, Ventures, Cavalcades, XS1100, Honda CB bike with shaft drive, etc) and I was taught to do that. Shaft Drive is a not a new thing and All moving mechanical parts subject to metal-metal contact and friction typically need some type of grease, so I would say yes it's good mechanical practice even if not spelled out in a service manual.

 

I haven't reviewed a Royal Star Service manual in a while, and have never reviewed a first gen manual. I have however reviewed my share of Yamaha service manuals for a variety of their products including waverunners. Yamaha assumes a certain amount of mechanical knowledge when writing their Factory Service Manuals. You also have to hunt for information or pick it out. The manual typically has a blow out diagram on the first page of the section you are working on, say Final drive unit. That blow out diagram typically has little pictograms (Icons we call them now) in it with arrows pointing to things that need loctite, grease, etc. They will have a picture of grease gun with an M in the middle for Moly based grease, LB in the middle for Lithium Based Grease, A bottle shape with a 242 for Loctite 242, etc. Sometimes this info makes it into the step by step instructions, sometimes the only place you see what to grease is in the blow out diagram and nowhere else. Somewhere in the front of the manual in the general section is an index with all the different pictograms and a corresponding Yamaha part number and description of the grease, loctite, sealant , etc. so you have to flip back there to see exactly what to use, at least by part number.

 

All the mechanics I worked with back then had all been through the factory training, some of it hands on factory training classes, we also had whole series of video training tapes. May have been part of the factory training or even training from MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute).

 

As pointed out earlier in the thread, also inspect the seal. Any good quality grease should stay in there for a normal tire interval.

 

By the way there are 10 Yamaha videos on line (maybe at www.ventureres.org (com?) ) but anyway.... The Military calls them Lube Cards or Charts used on vehicles and equipment...shows every place there's a need for lube and what to use... handy...

You're right, a good mech has basic (and advanced) knowledge of mechanical movements and what should get the "goo". It's just as important to use the RIGHT goo as it is to goo the thing up at all!

I came across a lot of charts on line recently, charts that compare greases... soapy vs lithium and so on...what grease is compatible with other greases... trouble is those charts compare Joe Blow's grease with others grease(s), it's not comprehensive(ie) it doesn't compare all (of or many) of Joe Blow's grease or specific grease(s) with other specific grease(s). So, you have to dig in and read it all... a real PIA!