Greasing Splines

[rutman]

Pulled rear wheel to get my commander ii mounted on my rstd that I bought in Jan. The splines had very little grease on them. When I took off the hub pins I could not believe it. The pins were rusted and looked like they had never had grease on them. I cleaned them up real good with a scotchbrite pad then greased them and the needle bearings. Glad I got this done and I feel good about doing proper maintenance on the bike.

[GeorgeS]

Did you pull the drive shaft out, and greese that also ??

It needs to be done.

Not called out in the Service Manual

[rutman]

Did you pull the drive shaft out, and greese that also ??

It needs to be done.

Not called out in the Service Manual

 

No didn't think about doing the drive shaft,. Darn it. I'll do it next time I put the wheel.

[ACE50]

No didn't think about doing the drive shaft,. Darn it. I'll do it next time I put the wheel.

 

It's a PITA to get the shaft back in the U joint. My first time was with it stuck in the shaft drive unit then install the whole unit. Now I put the shaft in the U joint THEN install the shaft drive unit. That was a little easier.

[rutman]

It's a PITA to get the shaft back in the U joint. My first time was with it stuck in the shaft drive unit then install the whole unit. Now I put the shaft in the U joint THEN install the shaft drive unit. That was a little easier.

 

cool. that's how I will try it.

[BigLenny]

I'm gonna grease my rear end (sounds vulgar) next weekend. I have the creaking sound, so I won't be surprised if I find the same thing you found.

[Yamak]

I just went out in the garage and tried the method you used for reinstalling the driveshaft and it worked well for me. I had read about at least one person doing the install and missing the u joint so I shifted the tranny in and out of gear and turned the shaft by hand to confirm I had it right. My geared down rear drive from RMSport Max should arrive this week, then I will finish up this project and get back to my new retirement job of riding motorcycle in southern utah.

[Hucklecatt]

Would someone expand on the shaft greasing task? Are we talking about removing the four acorn nuts and pulling that part for greasing?

[RedRider]

Would someone expand on the shaft greasing task? Are we talking about removing the four acorn nuts and pulling that part for greasing?

 

Yes, that is what we are talking about. Pull the pumpkin and the drive shaft should come with it. Pull the drive shaft out of the pumpkin. Use Honda Moly 60 to grease the shaft ends. Reinstall. Several threads on here about aligning the drive shaft to get it back into the U-joint.

 

RR

[Hucklecatt]

Okay, so to be absolutely obnoxious about this, at http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/50043abdf8700209bc78d0c4/drive-shaft, item number 32 is removed and greased at both ends?

 

Huge thanks!

[Venturous Randy]

If you have an 86 up 1st gen or any 2nd gen, there is no use greasing the end of the driveshaft that goes into the final drive. This end of the driveshaft is lubricated by the flow of oil from the final drive. If you put grease on it, it will get washed off by the flow of oil and that grease becomes part of the oil.

On the MKI's, 83 thru 85, the splines on both ends need to be greased on both ends.

As far as putting the driveshaft back into the u-joint, if it takes you more than 10 seconds, you are not doing it right.

Yes, Hucklecatt, that is the driveshaft.

RandyA

[mega2500]

I was going to sell these for 29.95 $ U S but i see some of you need info now so I will let the cat out of the bag.

 

To reinstall splines into yoke I take out inspection plug in top of shaft tube

get two [2] 14" tie straps and slip them together at one end so you have a loop

slip the loop in the inspection hole pushing it toward the back of the tube

now with a long screwdriver or rod lift up on the yoke and pull up on the two free ends of the tie straps to cradle the yoke

insert shaft into tube and into yoke add nuts and pull on one end of tiestraps to remove from the inspection hole isntall plug and you are done

 

NC

No charge

[frankd]

I've got a couple of comments and also questions about Venture shaft drives.

 

Venterous said that on 86 and later Ventures, that it isn't necessary to grease the rear shaft spines because it's lubricated by the shaft drive lube. I don't think that's quite correct. Yes, there is a passage between the shaft drive unit and the spline that lube can move through, but it's really too high to allow lube into the drive shaft coupling unless you pull the shaft unit without draining it, and tip it onto it's side. Then the lube can flow from the shaft drive unit into the coupling. Under normal use, it doesn't, and it needs to be greased with heavy molybendum disulfide grease (Honda moly60 or equiv.). When I pull my 87 apart, there is just moly grease in the coupling. Because the seal that was added in '86 keeps the grease in the coupling, it doesn't need to be done as often as the 83-85's do. On my 83, I grease it every 12-13K, or about half way through a normal tire life. This means on a Gen1 Mk1, you do it when you change the rear tire and again about half way through it's life. You also talked about the best way to insert the shaft into the u-joint......On my 83, I used to put it in by itself, and aim the coupling downward so it would go into the u-joint easier. Then I bought the 89, and because of the shaft seal holding the shaft into the coupling, I tried to put it in the first time by holding the shaft unit. It went into the u-joint much easier. I tried it on the next shaft service on the 83, and it was easier this way also. BTW, I have the bike in gear when I insert the shaft, and after I snug the 4 acorn nuts up, I put it in neutral and make sure I can turn the shaft drive unit over to verify the shaft went into the u-joint coupling. I've only had the shaft miss the u-joint once in the many years I've been servicing the shaft unit, but it'd be far better to discover that it missed the coupling before putting the bike completely back together and then having to pull it apart again.

 

Now my questions......if I read correctly, some put the 86 and later shaft into the u-joint coupling and then into the shaft unit. If you do it this way, how do you get the shaft seal all the way in? Question #2. Where do you get Honda Moly60? Last summer I went to the local Honda dealer and they couldn't find any mention of it in their paperwork. That had 2 different Moly greases for sale, and which one was used depended on what year car they were servicing.

 

Frank D.

[RedRider]

I believe the Honda part number is 08734-0001.

 

RR

[Jimbob66]

Concerning the Moly Grease

 

http://guarddogmoly.com/

 

I have used this for many years on a Honda Valkyrie final drive. A lot of the Valk guys recommend this instead of the Honda stuff. It is expensive, but then again so is a final drive unit.

[Venturous Randy]

The coupling on the MKII's and 2nd gens are not lubricated because of the level of the oil, but from the oil coming off of the ring gear as it rotates. It pushes oil into the slot going to the coupling. If you pack the coupling with the moly grease, it will probably prevent the oil from circulating around the coupling/shaft splines, but obviously it will be well lubricated.

When the driveshaft's with a seal is inserted into the u-joint first, the seal will still go into the coupling because the length of the driveshaft takes up all the space when the final drive is installed. When I put the V-max final drive on my 83, I had to go to the MKII driveshaft with a seal. I put the driveshaft into the u-joint first and then into the coupling and then snugged the housing down. I then pulled it back out with the driveshaft stuck in the final drive and the seal was bottomed as far as it would go.

As far as putting the driveshaft into the coupling, I take Vise Grips and clamp down on the coupling splines just snug enough to be able to hold up the u-joint end of the shaft. I stick the shaft into the tube and tilt it down and stick it into the u-joint. As I lift the end of the shaft up and twist it slightly, it will easily slide into the u-joint. Like I said, if it takes more than 10 seconds, you are not doing it right, or you need practice.

I then put the final drive on while putting the shaft into the coupling and snug the nuts down evenly and then tighten them and it is good to go.

RandyA

[Yamak]

I am getting gear lube leakage at the axle tube flange/ 4 stud joint, after installing my vmax drive. Apparently the seal on the axle is supposed to stop oil from migrating into the axle tube. When I pulled the stock drive there was no oil leakage, however after changing it out I started noticing a leak. I can't see why oil should be allowed past the oil seal before the female axle coupler into the axle spline area since it is just a splined joint easily lubed with moly ( no rotational movement) may be a while before I take it back apart, more of a project with a sidecar attached. Anyway I would recommend looking at the seal closely and lube it before putting it together. Kind of hoping the leak will stop, not likely though.

[Neil86]

The pinion bearing also sits above the oil level in the sump and gets its oil from

the crown gear carrying oil as it rotates, and some of the pinion bearing oil flows through

the hole in the coupler to lubricate the splines.

In the service bulletin about greasing the 83-85 rear splines due to the ineffective zerk

it mentions that 86-up splines are lubricated by gear oil and require no greasing.

[camos]

The splines had very little grease on them. When I took off the hub pins I could not believe it. The pins were rusted and looked like they had never had grease on them. I cleaned them up real good with a scotchbrite pad then greased them and the needle bearings.

Mine were in a similar condition when I pulled the pins out. I expected to see the needle bearings after removing the pins but no dice. So how do you get to the needle bearings?

[camos]

As far as putting the driveshaft into the coupling, I take Vise Grips and clamp down on the coupling splines just snug enough to be able to hold up the u-joint end of the shaft. I stick the shaft into the tube and tilt it down and stick it into the u-joint.

Where does the Vise Grip go? Is it at the rubber boot end?

 

As I lift the end of the shaft up and twist it slightly, it will easily slide into the u-joint. Like I said, if it takes more than 10 seconds, you are not doing it right, or you need practice.

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RandyA

Not sure there is a descriptive term that applies to me. I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out what your instructions meant so I didn't even get to the 10 seconds required to finish the job.

If there is a term I don't want to hear it...OK?

[camos]

Looks like I may have killed this thread.

Oh well....

 

So I still don't know what Venturous was saying about using Vise-Grips. My last post was after I had disassembled the drive shaft and pumpkin and I could not see any splines that could be gripped. It is a moot point anyway since today I put the drive shaft etc. together, actually did it three times just to be sure, and each time took about ten seconds.

It was like magic.

The first time I put it together dry just to see how it would go.

The second time I put it together after greasing the universal joint spline end with Moly 60.

The third time I put it together because I had removed it again cuz I could not believe it had been so easy.

 

Talk about a non-adVenture!!!

 

I'm reasonably sure luck was on my side due to the universal joint having fallen to about the 5 o'clock position which made it relatively easy to get the spline started into the coupling. Of course, that is just a guess on my part.

[speakerfritz]

so on a second gen the rear of the shaft gets lubed by splashy splashy from the final drive.....what about the front splines..how do they get lubed on a second gen

 

can i put a grease fitting on the shaft housing and just pack the whole thing with grease?

[cimmer]

I will confirm that the VR 1st Gen MKII get their oil from the Rear Axle Gear Case Assembly as I had a tear in my seal and was leaking oil from that and out the connection of the swing arm tube and Rear Axle Gear Case Assembly. I am in the process of replacing the seal now and there is 90w in the coupling where the drive shaft sits. I did notice a couple of holes in theback of the gear coupling that would allow oil to be sent back to the driveshaft gears for lube purposes.

By looking at the parts diagram, it appears the 2nd gens use the same seal arrangement and would therefore not need to have the drive shaft gears lubed but of course the spine end will need some lube.

Also looking at the parts diagram for the 96 Royal Star, there is no seals that would stop the flow of gear lube from reaching the back of the gear coupling as the only seal (#9) I see appears to fit around the outside of the coupling to seal it and then the drive shaft seal (#33) seals up the inside of the coupling/shaft connection.

Hope this helps.

Rick F.

[bearclaw]

After fighting to get the final drive reinstalled this thread helped get me on the right track. After greasing the drive line I couldn't get shaft back in the u joint. The way I finally got it reinstalled was by connecting two 12" zip ties together. Insert a long screwdriver from the back of the bike and lift up the u-joint. Then loop the two zip ties underneath the U-joint from the site where you can see the u-joint inside the shaft.

 

 

Once you get the U-joint centered in the shaft, it will be much easier to get the shaft lined up with the splines.

 

I found sitting next to the bike with my left hand touching the u joint through the site glass and using the right hand to feed the drive line into the housing was the best option. Without having the hand touching the u joint it was hard to tell if the shaft was inserted as well as to offer some resistance as I was inserting the shaft.

 

Hope the tip helps.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Freebird

[Beau-Kat]

I am getting gear lube leakage at the axle tube flange/ 4 stud joint, after installing my vmax drive. Apparently the seal on the axle is supposed to stop oil from migrating into the axle tube. When I pulled the stock drive there was no oil leakage, however after changing it out I started noticing a leak. I can't see why oil should be allowed past the oil seal before the female axle coupler into the axle spline area since it is just a splined joint easily lubed with moly ( no rotational movement) may be a while before I take it back apart, more of a project with a sidecar attached. Anyway I would recommend looking at the seal closely and lube it before putting it together. Kind of hoping the leak will stop, not likely though.

 

Got the same symptoms you describe after pulling and lubing my MM's driveshaft. Must have damaged the seal putting it back together.

 

You can hope, but I doubt the leak will seal itself. Mine hasn't stopped leaking. Been carefully wiping lube off and thoroughly cleaning my tire for months. Ordering a seal this week.