IT guys, need help with computer question

[ediddy]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Linux.

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

http://www.ubuntu.com/server

 

http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/business

 

http://www.ubuntu.com/management/ubuntu-advantage

[syscrusher]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

 

If what you have works for you keep using it. If your business were to need to show clients that you have systems under maintenance, disaster recovery, etc. then you likely need to have an enterprise agreement with MS and they are not entering those agreements for Win XP anymore so the upgrade would be needed. Are you an independent agency or is a home office telling you that a corporate standard requires the upgrade? In that case you would know the answer already though. Having a current maintenance contract is a way to offload liability in case of major system failure that causes customers to want to sue due to service agreements or the like. If you aren't worried about that and you can get the job done with what you have then don't worry, be happy.

 

 

One final thought though, and I don't know the details but MS may not be doing security updates to Win XP. You have a responsibility to protect your customers information to the best of your abilities and this means applying patches and running antivirus and firewall software. So if falling behind means jeopardizing confidential information stored on your servers then you'd better do the upgrades.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

You do not HAVE to do what microsoft says.

 

You might THINK you do, but you dont.

 

[etcswjoe]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

 

 

I don't see any reason why it would not run, I ran it on older boxes.

[djh3]

From what I understand on the XP thing. MS is not updating anything for that OS anymore. Drivers, bug fixs etc or security fixs. The "threat" is that as it get older and now no support hackers are going to be able to get into folks computers easier. If your running a firewall should not be to much of a problem and keep an anti virus updated. I think anti virus folks and the like relaize not everyone is going to jump right on the win 7 or 8 or whatever it is this month. I would suggest budget it for an upgrade and talk to your IT guy and maybe a couple others. You should be able to upgrade your machines to use the newer OS without problems. May depend on your "home company" software and its interface.

[ediddy]

Thanks for the replies. We are an independent insurance agency, so we don't have an insurance company telling us what to do. It is true microsoft won't be doing any upgrades, patches etc. We do have a firewall and wouldn't turn on our computers without antivirus protection. We use the business version of avast. The IT guy did say every hacker out there will probably being going after businesses using xp. Our computers work fine and I didn't want to buy new computers unless it was necessary. It is always something. It never ends.

[PGunn]

I have a Dell D630 with 4 gig of ram running windows 7 ultimate 64 bit just fine. It all depends on the hardware your using and if it is compatible with the version of windows your using. And yes even M$ will tell you it won't work (like my Dell) so do some Googling on the hardware because sometimes a memory upgrade is really all it may need.

[ediddy]

Oh, I left out my main question. The new software program we will have to run is windows 7. So I was wondering why we couldn't upgrade to windows 7 with our current computers.

[Guest Bluestreak]

Oh, I left out my main question. The new software program we will have to run is windows 7. So I was wondering why we couldn't upgrade to windows 7 with our current computers.

 

Most likely the GX620's will not have all the necessary drivers to update to Win 7.,

 

I have an Dell optiplex 620 that a church asked me to take and wipe the drive on and I have not yet been able to find a Win7 audio driver for it. Everything else has worked. I suppose I could install an aftermarket sound card.

 

Your XP will continue to work, there just won't be updates for it. Most likely Dell won't support them. It can make you more vulnerable. Using a different browser like firefox will help and definitely having a good hardware firewall between you and the world and a good anti-virus/spyware package.

 

Our plans at work are having all XP's replaced or upgraded. I will be upgrading my home equipment when and where I can.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Bluestreak
What OS is on your server? Your Latitude D830 on Dell's site will run Vista. Good chance upgrade to win7.

[Grolli]

Unless the software says its not compatible with XP, you are ok. Win 7 has a "run in XP mode" feature, that I find handy with older versions of drivers. Dell may not have a driver specificdally for Win 7, but you can load it in XP mode and run it fine. Long story short.. even if your software does not specifically say WINDOWS 7.. you may still be able to run it.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Imagine if Microsoft built cars:

 

 

 

1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car.
   
2. Occasionally your car would just die on the motorway for no reason, and you'd have to restart it. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this, restart and drive on.
   
3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause your car to stop and fail to restart and you'd have to re-install the engine. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this too.
   
4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought a "Car 95" or a "Car NT". But then you'd have to buy more seats.
   
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was twice as reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive - but it would only run on five percent of the roads.
   
6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades to their cars which would make their cars go much slower.
   
7. The oil, engine, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced with a single "General Car Fault" warning light.
   
8. People would get excited about the "new" features in Microsoft cars, forgetting completely that they had been available in other cars for many years.
   
9. We'd all have to switch to Microsoft gas and all auto fluids but the packaging would be superb.
   
10. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
    
11. The airbag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.
    
12. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
    
13. They wouldn't build their own engines, but form a cartel with their engine suppliers. The latest engine would have 16 cylinders, multi-point fuel injection and 4 turbos, but it would be a side-valve design so you could use Model-T Ford parts on it.
    
14. There would be an "Engium Pro" with bigger turbos, but it would be slower on most existing roads.
    
15. Microsoft cars would have a special radio/cassette player which would only be able to listen to Microsoft FM, and play Microsoft Cassettes. Unless of course, you buy the upgrade to use existingstuff.
    
16. Microsoft would do so well, because even though they don't own any roads, all of the road manufacturers would give away Microsoft cars free, including IBM!
    
17. If you still ran old versions of car (ie. CarDOS 6.22/CarWIN 3.11), then you would be called old fashioned, but you would be able to drive much faster, and on more roads!
    
18. If you couldn't afford to buy a new car, then you could just borrow your friends, and then copy it.
    
19. Whenever you bought a car, you would have to reorganize the ignition for a few days before it worked.
    
20. You would need to by an upgrade to run cars on a motorway next to each other.
    

 

[Kirby]

Imagine if Microsoft built cars:

 

 

 

1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car.
   
2. Occasionally your car would just die on the motorway for no reason, and you'd have to restart it. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this, restart and drive on.
   
3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause your car to stop and fail to restart and you'd have to re-install the engine. For some strange reason, you'd just accept this too.
   
4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought a "Car 95" or a "Car NT". But then you'd have to buy more seats.
   
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was twice as reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive - but it would only run on five percent of the roads.
   
6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades to their cars which would make their cars go much slower.
   
7. The oil, engine, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced with a single "General Car Fault" warning light.
   
8. People would get excited about the "new" features in Microsoft cars, forgetting completely that they had been available in other cars for many years.
   
9. We'd all have to switch to Microsoft gas and all auto fluids but the packaging would be superb.
   
10. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
    
11. The airbag system would say "Are you sure?" before going off.
    
12. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
    
13. They wouldn't build their own engines, but form a cartel with their engine suppliers. The latest engine would have 16 cylinders, multi-point fuel injection and 4 turbos, but it would be a side-valve design so you could use Model-T Ford parts on it.
    
14. There would be an "Engium Pro" with bigger turbos, but it would be slower on most existing roads.
    
15. Microsoft cars would have a special radio/cassette player which would only be able to listen to Microsoft FM, and play Microsoft Cassettes. Unless of course, you buy the upgrade to use existingstuff.
    
16. Microsoft would do so well, because even though they don't own any roads, all of the road manufacturers would give away Microsoft cars free, including IBM!
    
17. If you still ran old versions of car (ie. CarDOS 6.22/CarWIN 3.11), then you would be called old fashioned, but you would be able to drive much faster, and on more roads!
    
18. If you couldn't afford to buy a new car, then you could just borrow your friends, and then copy it.
    
19. Whenever you bought a car, you would have to reorganize the ignition for a few days before it worked.
    
20. You would need to by an upgrade to run cars on a motorway next to each other.
    

 

 

 

 

:crackup:

Amen brother!!!!!

[Guest tx2sturgis]

More:

 

 

21.

 

Every time Microsoft introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

 

 

22.

 

Microsoft would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Automobile Association Road maps (now a Microsoft subsidiary), even though they neither need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more.

 

23.

 

You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

[syscrusher]

If you're talking about a serious insurance office then don't worry about sound cards and stuff that aren't needed. The rest of your existing equipment should work with Win 7 but why not test it out on one system and see how it goes? The worst thing that'll happen is you discover you need new hardware for sure instead of maybe.

[BlueVenture87]

That dell 620 is OK for plunking around on venturerider.org but I would get set up with new equipment for the windows 7 changeover. Linux and Apple are not viable alternatives if you're hiring consultants to help maintain your network. The Linux freedom fighters like to work harder for the same result and Apple is really a media company who makes shiny aluminum gear to sell you more rap MP3's It sounds like you are in a MS domain environment along with all that a structured system gets you. It's time to upgrade your stuff. A new Dell 9020 tower costs about 700.00 or so, if you want to save costs don't buy new monitors unless you're still running CRT's. The ones you have (even crt's if you have to) will work with the new desktops. I haven't looked at server hardware costs but server 2008 should have about 2 years life left. You'll need to be at the 2008 server level to run the Win7 clients to their full potential. If it were my shop I would get my server up to the Win08 level and run new Win 7 clients against the 08 server. Then make the jump to server 2012 at a later time. You make money with these systems, it's time to give the 8 year old 620's to your kids. The hardware is cheap when compared to the wages paid to create the data inside the machine.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

-JK

[SilvrT]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

 

What OS are you running on the Poweredge 830?

 

What Internet browser do you use? I ask that because if it's IE, you will find some sites that don't support older versions and newer plug-ins such as Adobe reader won't work, yet you might be required to use them under certain circumstances. The problem with Microsoft and some of these "plug-ins" is they are forcing us to upgrade.

 

FWIW, I look after appx 50 workstations running WinXP in a Win Server 2008 domain environment. We are not running into any compatibility issues.... YET, but I know it won't be long.

 

My 5 cents worth ... keep what you got for as long as you can. As long as you have good firewall and anti virus, I would't be too concerned.

 

As for the hackers and virus creators, really... I doubt they are going to focus on WinXP users because that following is dwindling rapidly so where's the payoff? Besides, it's not the OS that's protecting you when you have a firewall and a good A/V.

[StarRider07]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

 

First, as of April of this year, unless MS decides to extend it, there will be no more XP security updates available.

Do you need new PC's? Well it depends how old they are. Here is a link for a download to run on those PC's to if they will run Win7 properly.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=20

 

Greg

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The Linux freedom fighters like to work harder for the same result

 

 

Its funny that you think Linux is more work than Microsoft.

 

I recently resurrected a Windows laptop with a failed and replaced hard drive that took 4 DAYS of work to get it going again...due mainly to hours downloading updates that kept failing. It finally told me that the updater needed updating! (huh?)

 

I can completely install a fresh new Linux distro in 45 minutes or less!

 

Once I had this Win7 laptop FINALLY running.....then it took several more hours to get the WiFi drivers and video drivers happy...and then Adobe flash player crapped out and I worked on that for 2 days off and on. (there are millions of help pages for getting it working, but that will take awhile to try each and every one...)

 

I finally ordered a set of Win7 recovery disks from the company. ($25 for something that should have been INCLUDED!)

 

After a week, they arrived, and an entire afternoon was wasted getting the 'old' new Win7 installed, updated, and working in a stable fashion.

 

In the same amount of time I spent on this one laptop I could have gotten 50 old pc's working on Linux.

 

Jeeze.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2014 by tx2sturgis

[blue mtn. jim]

trying to find out way to get them, also looking for the way to install a gps, thanks Jim

[PGunn]

"I have an Dell optiplex 620 that a church asked me to take and wipe the drive on and I have not yet been able to find a Win7 audio driver for it. Everything else has worked. I suppose I could install an aftermarket sound card."

 

Did you try the Windows Vista drivers doing a manual upgrade to the soundcard through the management console? I have done this quite a few times and it does work often.

[Guest Bluestreak]

Its funny that you think Linux is more work than Microsoft.

 

Nothing at all wrong with Linux... Unless you have never messed with it and are familiar with the Windows system...

 

Setup Linux on old outdated hardware and it runs just fine. But an average user would have to learn their way around Linux before jumping in.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

BTW...

 

After almost a week of that process, off and on, I got the Acer laptop running on Windows 7...it seems stable and reliable now...

 

Of course, I dont use this laptop to surf to malicious websites or open unknown email attachments on it.

 

I installed a Crucial M500, 240GB solid state hard drive, and after a bit of tweaking, its running pretty fast. In fact, its running better I think than I have ever seen Windows run.

 

These SSD's are really getting a lot more affordable and now I have two laptops running on SSD's....one WIndows7 and one running Linux Ubuntu.

 

They both boot up and run pretty fast, the Acer with Win7 will boot in about 30 seconds....the HP running Linux will boot in about 12 seconds.

 

I think I can tweak a few more things in the Windows boot-up sequence to trim that down a bit.

 

Just when Microsoft gets its OS working well...that is the time they will kill it...so I wont get too attached....

 

 

 

 

 

[LilBeaver]

Background: Insurance agency. Have a server, Dell power edge 830, Two Dell Opti Plex GX620's and one Dell latitude D830 laptop using a replicator. The two desktops and laptop are used as workstations. All put in service in 2006 using windows xp professional. The IT guy we use was in last week to tell us microsoft won't be servicing windows xp. We knew that. He says we will have to buy a new server and workstations and use windows 7 professional. Do you guys agree that we will have to have new computers. I thought we could just change from xp to windows 7. Thanks for your expertise.

 

I will try to provide a more objective viewpoint here but first require more information from you. Your setup sounds rather straight forward. The generic 'you need to update your systems' comment from your IT guy may be legit or it maybe a lazy IT guy looking to spend someone else's money to make his life easier. Bottom line, questions that we need answers to in order to provide you with a better overall assessment of what options you have are questions such as (Yes, some of these are going to be repeated):

 

(1) What OS are you running on the Poweredge server?

 

(2) What do you use the server for? (For example: File server only? File server and user authentication? Heavy calculations of something like risk assessment models for your insurance shenanigans? Running a 'out of box' software package that is designed for a particular operating system to make YOUR life easier? etc

 

(3) Hardware specs of the machines is really required to know whether they will run W7 (and the appropriate OS for the server related functions -- believe it or not, ANY computer with nearly any operating system can be a 'server', it all depends on what you intend on serving up from it)

 

(4) This "IT guy" of yours -- what is his background and function at your place of business? Obviously choosing a setup that he does not know will require that either you (a) learn the system yourself (b) make appropriate arrangements for support from an 'IT guy' that understands (or is willing to learn) a particular system © etc.

 

Okay, I think that covers the basics.

 

Really though, since YOU know the needs of YOUR office (that is, what you will be doing with these computers and such), in order for anyone to give a quality recommendation one would need to know your desires and expectations out of the system. From there and only there can a good recommendation of software and hardware can be provided by any external source.

 

For instance, if all you use the server for is redundantly storing files and providing access to the other machines in your office, then whatever you are running now may be just fine or maybe making an OS switch will provide you with all of the functionality that you currently have and want without having to update the server hardware.

 

What OS are you running on the Poweredge 830?

 

What Internet browser do you use? I ask that because if it's IE, you will find some sites that don't support older versions and newer plug-ins such as Adobe reader won't work, yet you might be required to use them under certain circumstances. The problem with Microsoft and some of these "plug-ins" is they are forcing us to upgrade.

 

[...]

My 5 cents worth ... keep what you got for as long as you can. As long as you have good firewall and anti virus, I would't be too concerned.

 

As for the hackers and virus creators [...] it's not the OS that's protecting you when you have a firewall and a good A/V.

 

^^^ In general, I mostly agree with these comments with the caveat of security weak points that exist due to the services that require holes in the firewall for proper function of said services have no protection from a firewall (especially one that is improperly configured). Granted, I also agree with the slim chance that someone is going to intentionally target 10+ year old machines. I say this and yet, a few years ago someone hacked on of our research group's back-up servers -- it is a 15 year old box that does nothing but run a website that provides an access portal for some of our archived data and a small library of saved papers and documents. They obviously could not do anything since ALL access to anything was managed with authentication through another box, but they managed to get in, change a few passwords for some expired accounts and then presumably realize they were wasting their time. Admittedly, the hack could have been easily avoided if one of the sys admins would have double checked one of their changes before walking away.

The short of this is any holes in the Windows XP system or software therein will not be officially patched by Microsoft (I know many of us know and realize this, I am writing this for more of a general FYI comment) which is where the security threats remain. It is all a calculated risk; rather low probability but potential for high impact depending on what an unwanted visitor may or may not have (or want) access to.

 

 

Its funny that you think Linux is more work than Microsoft.

 

I recently resurrected a Windows laptop with a failed and replaced hard drive that took 4 DAYS of work to get it going again...due mainly to hours downloading updates that kept failing. It finally told me that the updater needed updating! (huh?)

 

I can completely install a fresh new Linux distro in 45 minutes or less!

 

Once I had this Win7 laptop FINALLY running.....then it took several more hours to get the WiFi drivers and video drivers happy...and then Adobe flash player crapped out and I worked on that for 2 days off and on. (there are millions of help pages for getting it working, but that will take awhile to try each and every one...)

 

I finally ordered a set of Win7 recovery disks from the company. ($25 for something that should have been INCLUDED!)

 

After a week, they arrived, and an entire afternoon was wasted getting the 'old' new Win7 installed, updated, and working in a stable fashion.

 

In the same amount of time I spent on this one laptop I could have gotten 50 old pc's working on Linux.

 

Jeeze.

 

^^ Had you started with the most recent release of a W 7 installation you could have saved yourself PLENTY of time And yes, this is 100% legitimate and legal. I actually just rebuilt a W 7 system (with a few year old hardware) in a matter of a few hours and only 2 or 3 update related reboots.

 

 

That dell 620 is OK for plunking around on venturerider.org but I would get set up with new equipment for the windows 7 changeover. Linux and Apple are not viable alternatives if you're hiring consultants to help maintain your network. [...] A new Dell 9020 tower costs about 700.00 or so, if you want to save costs don't buy new monitors unless you're still running CRT's. The ones you have (even crt's if you have to) will work with the new desktops. [...] You make money with these systems [...] The hardware is cheap when compared to the wages paid to create the data inside the machine.

 

First and foremost, I would say if one wants to save time, money and overall cost do not buy a Dell. Period. But that will be for another discussion.

Definitely agreed with not updating the monitors, unless desired -- since old ones work just fine. Also agreed with the principle that the hardware is CHEAP as compared to the 'expense' of having an unreliable system, etc etc.

 

I am curious as to why you think linux is not a 'viable alternative if one is hiring consultants to maintain one's network'?

Edited February 11, 2014 by LilBeaver
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