Guest tx2sturgis Posted January 23, 2014 #26 Posted January 23, 2014 Not exactly true. for example, I was playing with Debian based Corel Linux in 1999. It was a full-featured OS and being that it was from Corel, even included WordPerfect. I could network it to Microsoft OS based computers, read/write to their file system, surf the web, print, send faxes, you name it. It was ready, but folks just weren't. What I mean by 'not ready for prime time' is that it was not an OS that was ready to take on the competitors...today, it IS. Not because of what it was able to do..or not do...but because of what people expect in terms of compatibility, reliability, support, hardware drivers, third party apps, ease of use, pleasant user interface, etc, etc, etc. 15 years ago you did not find Linux (with a graphical UI) on 80% of servers worldwide, nor did you find it on 1 billion smartphones. (android IS linux!).
aharbi Posted January 24, 2014 #27 Posted January 24, 2014 ...on 80% of servers worldwide, nor did you find it on 1 billion smartphones. (android IS linux!). also most MP3 players. most gps units, ALL cell phone towers, ALL cable DVRs, and ALL imbedded controllers, most security camera control units, and the space station because I helped install it on the Thinkpads that are velcro'ed to the walls in each modual.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 25, 2014 #28 Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah. I kinda figured Win8 was a 'dumbing down'....this article more or less proves that: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57619024-75/windows-8-designer-why-microsoft-forced-metro-on-us-all/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
djh3 Posted February 28, 2014 #30 Posted February 28, 2014 I am going to be one of those caught between a rock and a hard place. I am running XP on all my machines. I know service by MS is ending. I used 98 until it just became impossable to find drivers etc. So is Linex compatable with windows programs IE office, Photo shop, open office? What is cost?
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #31 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) I am going to be one of those caught between a rock and a hard place. I am running XP on all my machines. I know service by MS is ending. I used 98 until it just became impossable to find drivers etc. So is Linex compatable with windows programs IE office, Photo shop, open office? What is cost? (I'm assuming we are talking about a small business) So, the answer is: Yes and No. Linux is a family of operating systems, with several flavors or 'distros' Linux is mostly free, and most of the documents that you might be using such as spreadsheets, artwork, database files, word documents, sales records, etc, can be opened and manipulated with something in the Linux world. It might require some retraining or at least a few days of getting familiar with the program. For a small business, you will need someone who is familiar with the system and its various aspects and yes, quirks, unless you yourself have the time to get familiar with it. In this country, Linux is mostly used in server environments and embedded systems, but that does not mean the average 'Winders' guy will know much about it. Plus Linux does not have a central place* where you can dial tech support. So its always up to a local IT person, with help from the Internet forums and information sources, to solve any problem, if it arises. If you make the switch to a LTS (Long Term Support) version of Linux you will have several years of automatic and free updates. Its going to be a learning curve, and an investment in time, to make a switch. I really like Linux, but then again, I'm a computer hobbyist and have the time and the desire to figure out a new OS...no one is paying (or expecting) me to be productive on a Linux machine. If you are willing to put in the time and effort, and make the switch gradually, one or two machines at a time, the payoff is there, in lower cost and no worry from viruses. I'm no business IT guy, and there are several members here who do that for a living...BUT...you can expect them to suggest a windoze product. Its what they do. Apple is not really targeting business with its desktop products, (mini-servers and expensive graphics computers excepted). If you are replacing a small handful of desktops, you might look at iMacs, but at $1000-$1500 each, they get pricey for just running a word processor. (Macs are wonderful machines, but primarily intended for consumers) And its even possible that 'thin clients' or terminals might work for your business in some positions...its a matter of choosing the hardware for the job you need to do. You can download Linux usually for free (Zorin has a tiered donation program) and burn it to a disk (or USB drive), and freely install it on any number of computers without a license, and try it out. Most consumer versions of Linux have a 'Live' mode that lets you boot your computer into the Linux OS, from the disc, and let you 'test drive' the OS to make sure its what you want, compatible with your hardware, etc. Or you can order disks from Ubuntu Linux or Linux Mint among others, for a few dollars to cover the disc(or USB drive) cost and shipping. (Zorin OS, and Linux Mint KDE are both very 'windows-like'). You can even order the discs (or USB drives) on eBay. Or you can now order complete desktop pc's loaded with Linux, and even a few laptop$ are showing up with Linux preloaded. Linux is generally free of crapware, bloatware, and malware. By the way, I'm using Linux Mint 16 on a Fit-PC right now. I also use Windows on a laptop and Mac OS on an iMac. Every one of these operating systems has its pros and cons. None of them are perfect. http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/biztools/the-5-best-linux-servers-for-small-business.html http://blogs.computerworld.com/which_linux_makes_the_best_business_windows_replacement_desktop http://kde.org/workspaces/plasmadesktop/ http://zorin-os.com/ http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/management http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2530 *Companies like Canonical and Novell offer paid tech support, if you need it, even though the OS itself is normally free. Edited February 28, 2014 by tx2sturgis
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #32 Posted February 28, 2014 I'm no business IT guy, and there are several members here who do that for a living...BUT...you can expect them to suggest a windoze product. Its what they do. As I've said in other threads, I've been "tinkering" with Linux distros since around 1998 or so. I switched to using Linux Mint full time (instead of Windows) last year on my home computer. Currently I'm testing various Linux distros at work in the hopes of moving all our servers and workstations over to Linux. In the process, I came across RoboLinux (http://www.robolinux.org/) ... this is a very slick OS based on Debian. It's easy to install, fast, and has a really cool, easy to maneouver desktop. It has pretty much everything a home user would want. Check it out ... I just dumped Linux Mint in favor of RoboLinux on my home PC. Oh, and BTW, with Linux, you will never have to worry about viruses again! Finally, as some of you may not know, I am in the IT biz and have been for over 25 years.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #33 Posted February 28, 2014 I came across RoboLinux (http://www.robolinux.org/) ... this is a very slick OS based on Debian. It's easy to install, fast, and has a really cool, easy to maneouver desktop. It has pretty much everything a home user would want. Check it out ... I just dumped Linux Mint in favor of RoboLinux on my home PC. Thanks for posting that RoboLinux link...its looks interesting, with a wine emulator built right it, that makes it handy for 'switchers'...and we need more of those! And the last statement has more meaning than the obvious: With Linux, no matter what, you are not tied, blackmailed, coerced, embedded, or otherwise, 'trapped' in ONE operating system...you are free to move about the entire Linux world, or not. You didnt pay $120 for the OS...so dumping it is ALWAYS an option. Thanks again SilvrT for posting the link.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #34 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Currently I'm testing various Linux distros at work in the hopes of moving all our servers and workstations over to Linux. If you have time during this process, would you document some of the transition? A few pics here and there, a couple of screengrabs, and a brief write-up would be a great reference we can point others to in the future. Microsoft has lost its way, and is floundering in a sea of unhappy consumers. It would be nice if someone who was in the IT business could light a path to the alternatives out there. Just a simple five or ten step guide, a page or two of text to outline it. I'm not in IT and will never be able to provide this. You might even think of an internet article or an Amazon Kindle book on how to get it done! So many Windows users have NO idea there is a good alternative to paying to use a virus-plagued computer. (Sidebar comment: One way to avoid a LOT of malware arriving in your computer, ANY computer, is to use a web-based email client, not one that resides on your computer like Outlook or Thunderbird. Off-loading the virus-scanning to an email host in the cloud avoids a LOT of junk. I use and recommend Fastmail.fm as your email aggregator.) I gotta admit, Windows is really pretty, and runs a lotta stuff, but under the hood...its broken, patched together with a never-ending series of 'finger in the dyke' fixes. Reminds me of Harley-Davidson. Really pretty Bikes. But under the hood...the Twin-Cam engine is self-destructing every time it runs. Ooops... Edited February 28, 2014 by tx2sturgis
MiCarl Posted February 28, 2014 #35 Posted February 28, 2014 I gotta admit, Windows is really pretty, and runs a lotta stuff, but under the hood...its broken, patched together with a never-ending series of 'finger in the dyke' fixes. I've got a couple software licenses that tie me to windoze. As soon as Microsoft backs me into a position where I need new licenses I'll probably switch to Linux.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #36 Posted February 28, 2014 I've got a couple software licenses that tie me to windoze. As soon as Microsoft backs me into a position where I need new licenses I'll probably switch to Linux. Yeah. Thats another way they keep you in the Windows eco-system. Not unlike iPhone with its app store, or Android and its play store. But...the difference there is that most smartphone consumers only keep one a year or maybe two, and look forward to an upgrade. And they dont have to deploy 1000 new ones in 5 years. Businesses are the primary money maker for MS...and they know it. They rely on the average person who uses a Windows PC at work, to buy a Windows PC for his or her own use at home. GOTCHA! Hey its as very successful business model. For them! Me? I like to have a choice.
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #37 Posted February 28, 2014 If you have time during this process, would you document some of the transition? Actually, there is a LOT of available info on the net. For example... http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/best-linux-distro-five-we-recommend-1090058 What I can say is this .... Most of them are pretty straight forward to install with graphical, guided installers. Once installed, you generally have to go thru an update process and that sometimes takes a while. After that, if you need to install anything extra, they all have "package" managers that will go out to the net and get/install this and that. Sometimes; however, you will need to open a "terminal" and type commands to get things to work. These commands are generally spelled out for you depending on what you're trying to install (they would be listed on the net). For example of the above, I have been configuring SAMBA to allow me to connect to my Linux box from a Windows machine and create/edit files, etc. This requires some typing of commands. Yes, there are graphical interfaces to do this but in my experience I've generally wound up having to do the "command line" thing in order to get it to work right .... kinda like DOS in the old days. You can see the commands and steps here .... http://www.unixmen.com/install-and-configure-samba-server-on-opensuse-13-1/ I've also messed things up pretty good too and had to do a complete re-install so I highly recommend everyone to do a backup of your data before "messing around". I'll add more as I think of it later.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #38 Posted February 28, 2014 What I can say is this .... Most of them are pretty straight forward to install with graphical, guided installers.. For the newbies, that is helpful, but what I'm referring to is a guide to yanking an entrenched-in-windows office or organization out of the darkness and into the light. Step-by-step install guides for Linux are everywhere. I've done it (almost blindfolded) dozens of times on dozens of computers. What I would like to see is a listing of why, and how, to make everything easy for the employees and managers who have to be convinced, then trained, to make the switch. Sometimes just telling a work buddy about Linux I get a blank stare. Telling them I want to 'free' them of Microsoft oppresion and make life easier...um...not a very good tactic. From the IT guy, the company will likely listen to YOU. But how do you help motivate and then migrate a business at arm's length into thinking there MUST be a better way than paying a Micro$oft ran$om fee per computer?
jonesy Posted February 28, 2014 Author #39 Posted February 28, 2014 As I've said in other threads, I've been "tinkering" with Linux distros since around 1998 or so. I switched to using Linux Mint full time (instead of Windows) last year on my home computer. Currently I'm testing various Linux distros at work in the hopes of moving all our servers and workstations over to Linux. In the process, I came across RoboLinux (http://www.robolinux.org/) ... this is a very slick OS based on Debian. It's easy to install, fast, and has a really cool, easy to maneouver desktop. It has pretty much everything a home user would want. Check it out ... I just dumped Linux Mint in favor of RoboLinux on my home PC. Oh, and BTW, with Linux, you will never have to worry about viruses again! Finally, as some of you may not know, I am in the IT biz and have been for over 25 years. I'm gotta give it a shot
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #40 Posted February 28, 2014 For the newbies, that is helpful, but what I'm referring to is a guide to yanking an entrenched-in-windows office or organization out of the darkness and into the light. Step-by-step install guides for Linux are everywhere. I've done it (almost blindfolded) dozens of times on dozens of computers. What I would like to see is a listing of why, and how, to make everything easy for the employees and managers who have to be convinced, then trained, to make the switch. Sometimes just telling a work buddy about Linux I get a blank stare. Telling them I want to 'free' them of Microsoft oppresion and make life easier...um...not a very good tactic. From the IT guy, the company will likely listen to YOU. But how do you help motivate and then migrate a business at arm's length into thinking there MUST be a better way than paying a Micro$oft ran$om fee per computer? Migrating to a newer version of a Microsoft product is one thing but moving to a totally different OS and applications is another. In the case of Microsoft, there are a lot of things to consider before a person upgrades. If switching to Linux, multiply those considerations 10 times minimum. In my case, the first thing I'm testing for is "can I use a Linux box as a file server?" ... answer=Yes Next is, "can I use it as an IntRanet server"? ... answer=yes The above "yes" answers are based on me having set it up and making it work in a test environment. That takes time and a whole lotta scouring the net. Then I have to look at the desktop workstations. Will current "in-house developed" applications run in Linux? answer=NO Will Enterprise apps run in Linux? There are a lot out there and many companies use a variety of them to run their business. Ok, so now what? ... Linux OS and Virtual machine running windows? ... might as well just stick with Windows. Redevelop the apps? ... well, I am working on that for us but still a long way off. Thankfully we don't use any Enterprise apps. Finally, can I use Linux servers as Domain Controllers and LDAP, DHCP, and DNS ? Apparently, but this I have yet to test. This is the kind of information/knowledge a person needs to be armed with in order to present a solid case to management. I'm lucky here because management would like nothing better if I could move everything to Linux.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #41 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) In my case, the first thing I'm testing for is "can I use a Linux box as a file server?" ... answer=Yes Next is, "can I use it as an IntRanet server"? ... answer=yes The entire reply was exactly what I was looking for...lots of info there. Thanks. I'm curious. Why not just buy a plug-and-play mini server like the Apple Mac Mini, Server Edition? Reliable as a rock, not hugely expensive, and full support and warranty from a large sucessful company, and you only have to buy it once? Then deploy dozens of laptops and desktops running Linux. Multicasting and bare metal cloning will get you there FAST. Make it easy on yourself! https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/server/ "Two types of Clonezilla are available, Clonezilla live and Clonezilla SE (server edition). Clonezilla live is suitable for single machine backup and restore. While Clonezilla SE is for massive deployment, it can clone many (40 plus!) computers simultaneously. Clonezilla saves and restores only used blocks in the hard disk. This increases the clone efficiency. E.g. Clonezilla SE was used to clone 41 computers simultaneously, and it took only about 10 minutes to clone a 5.6 GBytes system image to all 41 computers via multicasting" --- http://sysadmin.miniconf.org/presentations10.html Edited February 28, 2014 by tx2sturgis
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #42 Posted February 28, 2014 The entire reply was exactly what I was looking for...lots of info there. Thanks. I'm curious. Why not just buy a plug-and-play mini server like the Apple Mac Mini, Server Edition? Reliable as a rock, not hugely expensive, and full support and warranty from a large sucessful company, and you only have to buy it once? Then depoy dozens of laptops and desktops running Linux. Multicasting and bare metal cloning will get you there FAST. Make it easy on yourself! https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/server/ LOL ... everything is "easier said than done"
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #43 Posted February 28, 2014 LOL ... everything is "easier said than done" But...But...But.... Hey thanks for the back and forth banter. I will leave you to your job....you guys get paid well to do what you do...and worth every penny. I'll stick to transportation....moving things from point A to point B. Take care.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #44 Posted February 28, 2014 I'm gotta give it a shot 'Bout time you poked your head back into the thread you started!
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #45 Posted February 28, 2014 I will leave you to your job.... Oh great, just what I wanted ...
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #46 Posted February 28, 2014 I'm gotta give it a shot I shouldn't have to say this but I will anyway. Make sure you back up all your personal files. In addition, document all you various logins ... things like banking, webistes you visit that require login, etc. Don't forget your email and contacts ... make sure it's all "exported" into a format that can be imported by Thunderbird or Evolution as these are the email/contact client apps used in Linux.
jonesy Posted February 28, 2014 Author #47 Posted February 28, 2014 Oh, great, blame things on me. I've been watching things all along. And I learn some, going to mess around with that Robolinux some. Ran it from disc already, but had a little trouble getting out of it, had to hard shutdown it. Going to leave it alone till I got more time. Will read on website more.
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #48 Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Oh, great, blame things on me. I've been watching things all along. And I learn some, going to mess around with that Robolinux some. Ran it from disc already, but had a little trouble getting out of it, had to hard shutdown it. Going to leave it alone till I got more time. Will read on website more. There is always a shutdown menu in Linux...sometimes two icons that do it....one in the menu and another one in the 'panel'...thats the Linux word for the horizontal bar across the bottom or top of the screen. It might look like a little gear wheel or a power button with a '|' in it. I have said before, and I stick with this: The safest, and best way to try Linux is to buy a new hard drive for your computer and then remove the original drive. Most desktops and laptops provide an easy way to do this. Burn your copy of Linux as a .ISO image on the disc, or...order a couple of Linux discs or a USB stick on ebay. They work very well and dont cost a lot. Install the new blank hard drive, ($50 to $90 on ebay) boot into bios, INSTALL Linux from the CD, DVD, or USB on this new drive, and run it from there for a few days to see if you like it. You wont lose all your windows data, its still on the original drive...untouched. BTW....SSD drives REALLY speed up your system with linux....older machines run FAST! You can buy a $10 USB to SATA (or PATA) cable to plug that original drive into your computer, and still access all the data. Access it with the new linux OS...videos, documents, pictures, whatever. Then IF you dont like it, reformat the drive and try another version of Linux, OR....remove the drive, reinstall the original drive, and erase the linux drive and use it for a backup drive for windows, using the same cable. Either way, the cost is less than $100 and you end up with a backup for your data which you should have anyway. Edited February 28, 2014 by tx2sturgis
SilvrT Posted February 28, 2014 #49 Posted February 28, 2014 FWIW ... After installing roughly 6 different linux distros on a workstation and attempting to configure SAMBA on each one as well as join a Windows Domain, I've found openSuSe Linux to be the least problematic while at the same time, having by default the appropriate "tools". That said, it has not been without a struggle. At this point I can easilly access the Linux machine from a Windows workstation yet I am only able to access one of my Windows servers (and none of the workstations) from the Linux machine. Still got some "tweaking" to do....
Guest tx2sturgis Posted February 28, 2014 #50 Posted February 28, 2014 FWIW ... After installing roughly 6 different linux distros on a workstation and attempting to configure SAMBA on each one as well as join a Windows Domain, I've found openSuSe Linux to be the least problematic while at the same time, having by default the appropriate "tools". That said, it has not been without a struggle. At this point I can easilly access the Linux machine from a Windows workstation yet I am only able to access one of my Windows servers (and none of the workstations) from the Linux machine. Still got some "tweaking" to do.... I have good luck networking the iMac, all the Linux boxes, and the Windows laptop across my wifi network...I can read files to and from anywhere....as long as all the machines are set to share. But I'm not using SAMBA...just the built-in networking manager, under the files menu on my versions of Linux. I'm not sure what its like on a business network.....I assume its more complex and hence, troublesome. I assume printer sharing is the issue?
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