ADVICE, TIPS and INFO on 2002 Road King

[Barrycuda]

Interested in a POSSIBLE purchase of a HD 2002 Road King Police model. This will NOT replace the RSV. It has been a Florida bike and was purchased new for the New port richey police. it went in 2008 to the local HD and now a private owner is sitting on it. it has 19k on the clock. It comes with the quick release tour pak as well as the regular back seat back rest and sissy bar. has the original tachometer for the police edition. Owner has it about a year but wants to sell to buy appliances for new home. he is an older chap. (over 30)...

 

Basic online owner reviews say this is a reliable bike. I do not know or am affiliated closely to anyone who has or knows a RK that can give me accurate and perhaps non biased opinions and tips. So...I come here as well. I am going to be looking at the bike in person Sunday. He states the bike had its 10k service and has a stage 1 kit, whatever that entails. Said needs some minor buffing of a fender but mechanically no issues and no leaks. normally i do not get attracted to HD in particular but this one keeps calling me name. his bottom line asking price is 6500. wont budge on price. (although wafting $100 bills across his nostrils may change that)

 

Is there anyone on this forum, that can tell me anything ( good, bad and the ugly) about the bike? what it is known for? what services I NEED vs. what HD wants. If I get this bike I will have to part with my beloved kawasaki vulcan 1500 with 30K on the clock.

the HD for me would need a lower windshield than stock and speakers and a aux line for MP3 player, all which the vulcan has.

I appreciate any all replies.

 

PS** I am out much of tomorrow on the M&E with brake pad, DJH3 and the gang, but will be checking periodically tomorrow and once home

[brd7666]

Is this it?

 

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/mcy/4223208407.html

[Barrycuda]

Is this it?

 

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/mcy/4223208407.html

 

That's the one Brian.

[cowpuc]

Hi Barry

Yep, have owned, modded, resold and ridden several of them.. Also helped repair lots of them on the sturgis route touring over the years. Although NOT an expert on HD by any means so I am sure others will have different opinions.. Here is a pic of one I did up with a supercharger on it..

NICE BIKES!! Very rideable! Handle the twisties just great - lots of fun!! If its a stage one it would probably dyno in the 70 horse range. Good brakes. GREAT dealership support cause its a Harley - LOTS of dealerships all across the country.. That being said though, being an 02 there are parts that are probably already obsoulete - especially tuners and such..

I have found that the twin cam motor from HD is the most durable motor HD has made to date. Yours would be the 88 inch motor, cant remember if they offered a carb model back than, its probably FI.. Back in that time frame (and I think it was before the 02's) HD had troubles with the FI, than they switched to Delphi. If its not carbed I am sure you are getting the delphi..

Weak points,, the cams and oil pump are chain driven. There is a small plastic shoe that serves as a tensioner on this system. This little shoe has caused alot of grief for lots of folks, mainly folks who don't believe in real maintenance.. As the shoe wears it can contaminate the oil.. Also if not replaced on time it can cause catastrophic failure.. I worked on three HD's year before last that had this happen out at the sturgis rally - none of the folks I helped even had a clue of what happened.. In my opinion this little shoe is the achellies heal of the twin cam.. They are usually good to 25 thousandish and it sounds like the bike your looking at is under this BUT I would replace it soon if I bought it.. Personally, I think the aftermarket gear driven cam setup being offered for this is the ultimate solution (that blower was gear driven) but its pricey - about 550 bucks - and makes a whine (sounds like our clutch noises)..

The TC motor and tranny is also now "modular". The evo's/shovels/pans had the engines separated from the trannys - held by a backing plate. The TC trannys are bolted onto the engine BUT there is still a primary chain that drives the tranny. HD now uses an automatic adjuster, again with a small plastic shoe on it. That system has caused some issues too and I personally know guys who have gone back to the old manual adjust system with good success..

One of the really neat things about HD is the VAST amount of performance parts and pieces available for gear heads.. They are VERY buildable BUT I have found out that if left alone these TC's are very capable of thousands of miles!!

Puc

[djh3]

Is it an FI bike? Some of the earlier ones had issues. For the most part they are reliable. You have to figure HD has made that bike for over 15 years pretty much the way it sits. I think they are a 6 speed trans. I have a friend that has a heratige Softail, pretty much same bike except it is a 5 spd and has soft bags. He will jump on and go anyplace I will without worry. I think the normal stuff to look at of a bike that age tires, hyd systems rubber parts. Look for oil leaks around jugs.

Whats the possibility of removing your MP3 accesories off the Kawasaaki and transfering? They are nice touring bikes. But I can tell you the other half wont be as pleased with the seating arrangment. More room on RSV.

[cowpuc]

oppps, forgot pics,,

Also, thinking about pricing and all that Barry... Here is an ad locally for me where a guy has an 07 dyna for 7 grand, only has 8000 miles on it.. I know its not an RK but its a good example of what I have been seeing newer (compared to 02) go for around here.. There are TONS of newer HD's around and that seems to be driving the prices down... With that being said, something to consider with these modern day HD's is the HD warrantee.. If memory serves me correctly you can still purchase an HD warranty for older bikes, dont know how far back thats offered.. That being said, it would be cool if you could by a used one and put the warranty back on it,, something to think about...

Puc

Edited December 7, 2013 by cowpuc

[Guest tx2sturgis]

HD Police bikes have upgraded stators, batteries, and slightly different, bead-lock, runflat tires, (unless the wheels have been swapped) and of course, the hockey-puck bag openers. Not everyone knows this about HD Police bikes: You are NOT supposed to carry a passenger on one. Of course, second owners add a buddy seat or replace the solo saddle with a dual saddle and carry one anyway. Problem is that the runflat tires behave badly with the extra load when they get a puncture. Just be aware of this.

 

Stage One, also called the Harley Tax, is the first thing most new owners do: ECM reflash, free-flow aircleaner, and some type of free flowing exhaust. No internal engine mods at all. Its good for 10 or maybe 15 more horses above what the bike does in factory stock form.

 

As Puc said, the TC camchain tensioners will need to be looked at fairly soon. Its not cheap to replace them, but the alternative is a trashed bottom end somewhere between 30 and 50 thousand miles if not fixed.

 

I would also be careful of the dreaded 'rear-steer', also called the 'harley death wobble' that plagued the FL chassis up until about 2009. It can be fixed, and its actually not as noticeable on the Road King, but hanging that add-on trunk back there and loading it down will bring out the 'hinge-in-the-middle' that they all had back then.

 

The header pipes on the right side, at the 'Y' or up near the exhaust flange, can be cracked or may be fine. Look in there behind the heatshield with a small LED light...or listen in that area for exhaust noises when idling. Briefly block the right muffler with your hand when the bike is idling, COLD.

 

The neck bearings may need attention if not already addressed by the previous owner, and the rear shocks and swingarm bearings may need replacement.

 

Stators can be on the way out by 20,000 miles or may last till 50,000 or more.

 

The drive belt is probably good till 50,000 miles but look it over for damage and cuts. Look for fuzz on the edges.

 

Tires, battery, oil leaks, all the normal stuff...look it over really good.

 

It may seem like I'm tearing the bike apart, but HD bikes EARN the reputation for expensive repairs, and you need to go in with eyes wide open.

 

If the bike still looks good to you, by all means, shoot the guy an offer depending on what you find in your inspection. Just know that it will probably need some TLC...more than what you are used to with the Royal Stars.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[Barrycuda]

Puc, Dion and Brian...

 

That's is a lot of excellent information. That alone was worth the $12 bc I need to be well armed information wise. I will bring the list you all provided and check it out, if I decide to go that route. I mean it probably is a nice bike. That said, I am not interested in paying X amount in cam tensioners or other assorted mods on top of my buying price JUST to have a HD.

Brian made an interesting statement regarding police edition not made for 2 people. I do not want to put myself nor my loving wife in harms way because someone added a tour pak...

I will go over this and any other posts prior to leaving to decide if it is worth my time. As Puc said, newer bikes, about same price.

I was never "sold" on the HD in general, but I do like some of it models. You guys are awesome for spending time educating me a bit more about the HD brand and some of the things one has to watch for. I'd rather not get it, then to have the bike and drop even more cash, making me resent the decision.

Still may see it and ride it, simply because I never rode a HD before. Maybe a better plan is to rent one for the weekend and see about how I feel then...

[cowpuc]

Puc, Dion and Brian...

 

I'd rather not get it, then to have the bike and drop even more cash, making me resent the decision.

Still may see it and ride it, simply because I never rode a HD before. Maybe a better plan is to rent one for the weekend and see about how I feel then...

 

 

Now your thinking Barry.. Thats an interesting comment, "not wanting to drop more cash and than resent it".. Seriously, from my experience with HD that goes against their corporate philosophy, kind of an oxymoron. Your suppose to like spending your cash on your bike..

Local HD dealers around here have regular test rides, also the manufacturer puts on some awesome test riding of new bikes (a BLAST).. The renting idea sounds like a winner too - last time I was in an HD shop that offered rentals it seems like rental rates were very reasonable..

 

Something else I have noticed.. I have seen a number of high mileage HD Twin Cams around and always yap with owners when I can (love to yap).. These high mileage bikes always seem to have a common ground - they are totally stock bikes, had maintenance done and got ridden regularly.. There are some HD folks who have learned to be happy with 67 horse and just enjoy the ride, good for them!!

By the way, the cam tentioner replacement on these bikes is NOT a major job and not that expensive to do (I think I paid 65 bucks for the last one I bought), its just a matter of doing it.. Not even close to the job to replace tentioner guides in say,, an old honda 750..

 

Send some heat this way buddy, PLEASE

[Guest tx2sturgis]

By the way, the cam tentioner replacement on these bikes is NOT a major job and not that expensive to do (I think I paid 65 bucks for the last one I bought),

 

All due respect buddy, but I dont know anyone that has had this job done for under $300...sure...you can tackle it yourself but you might need to buy some tools and of course gaskets and the replacement tensioners.

 

The only real issue is that they are a 'wear item' but are not addressed in the manual. At least, not during the years I was riding a couple of Twin-Cam motors. There was, at the time, no real understanding of how fast they wear and how much damage the tiny plastic pieces can do once they get in the oil passages of the motor.

 

In my case, I had the complete gear drive conversion done, and it was about $1100...but the plastic shoes are now gone and its all gears in there now.

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldodge]

Maybe not an issue but I always see the police bikes around here sitting and idling a lot, or being ridden in-town stop and go traffic all the time. Not as easy on the machine as highway cruising so a bike with more miles may have less hours of wear. As for the Road King, I like them. I also had a 1500 Vulcan Classic I bought new that I traded on my RSV (2005 with 40,000 miles when traded) , I loved it, but I don't miss it now.

[BratmanXj]

1. This bike appears to have the standard model wagon wheel rims, double check the sidewall as the police bikes do say RUN FLATS but I think your in the clear.

 

2. All 2000+ model year police bikes are Fuel Injected. '02 would be the updated Delphi injection system. HD and aftermarket still offer the injection tuners for this system.

 

3. The bike does not have the OEM exhaust. Check to see if there is a backing plate on the air filter or if you can touch the filter element behind the "ham can." If there is a backing plate it MAY NOT have the Stage 1 download fuel/ignition map, make sure to ask. If it is an open element filter it MUST have the Stage 1 download our the engine is running to lean and could have overheating damage, again make sure to ask.

 

4. IF this was an actual Police Service bike (doubtful with the low mileage) it most likely would have had the Screaming Eagle cam chain tensioner update. Ask if the previous owner may have had this done.

 

5. The cam chain tensioners, as mentioned by others, is the weak point of this motor. There are heavy duty, aftermarket, or gear driven replacements. This is the one item you NEED to have inspected. They are hit or miss, some people go 100k miles and are fine, some go 10k miles and they are chewed up, there is no pattern to tensioner wear.

 

6. Rear steer is not an issue unless overloaded. Overloading these bikes is easy, but not detrimental to the mechanicals of the bike. I have loaded the HELL out of my '03 and pushed it well beyond its intended use and never had an issue with rear steer. I have also road similar bikes with almost no load and felt the back end wander. Again, hit or miss.

 

Basically, the swing arm mounts to the motor and the motor is rubber mounted allowing a bit of free-play in the pivot point of the rear suspension. They make Bagger Braces to lock the back end of the motor and pivot to the rest of the frame, I feel this only mask the problem. The better solution is poly motor mounts and swing arm bushings, eliminate the problem vs a band-aid.

[BratmanXj]

Maybe not an issue but I always see the police bikes around here sitting and idling a lot, or being ridden in-town stop and go traffic all the time. Not as easy on the machine as highway cruising so a bike with more miles may have less hours of wear. As for the Road King, I like them. I also had a 1500 Vulcan Classic I bought new that I traded on my RSV (2005 with 40,000 miles when traded) , I loved it, but I don't miss it now.

 

But police bikes are also sold from the dealership as brand new without having served. Due to the current economic conditions most departments are holding on to their service bikes longer and putting higher mileage. The age and mileage on this bike lend me to belive it was sold off the dealership floor.

 

All due respect buddy, but I dont know anyone that has had this job done for under $300...sure...you can tackle it yourself but you might need to buy some tools and of course gaskets and the replacement tensioners.

 

The only real issue is that they are a 'wear item' but are not addressed in the manual. At least, not during the years I was riding a couple of Twin-Cam motors. There was, at the time, no real understanding of how fast they wear and how much damage the tiny plastic pieces can do once they get in the oil passages of the motor.

 

In my case, I had the complete gear drive conversion done, and it was about $1100...but the plastic shoes are now gone and its all gears in there now.

 

Agreed this is the best route to go, also the most expensive. The Screaming Eagle Cam Shoe Conversion usually runs about $450 including parts in the Greater Chicago area.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

After a bit of searching, I found this helpful video on YouTube. What is not addressed in the video is the labor to replace the shoes, if you have the dealer or an independent shop do it.

 

Also...ask yourself this question when you watch this video: Where is the plastic debris going? As the shoes wear, the plastic bits get bigger and bigger. You HOPE they get trapped by the oil filter but this is not always the case. Some of the tiny bits get lodged in the gearcase, and some of them enter oil passages and restrict cooling flow, or they block a check valve and cause oil-starvation. Not a good thing.

 

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[Guest tx2sturgis]

But police bikes are also sold from the dealership as brand new without having served. Due to the current economic conditions most departments are holding on to their service bikes longer and putting higher mileage. The age and mileage on this bike lend me to belive it was sold off the dealership floor.

 

Police bikes are not supposed to be sold new, other than to a police department with a servicing dealer close by. The dealership can lose its franchise by selling police bikes new to the general public.

 

Most police bikes are traded back to the dealer at about 2 years, usually with 10,000 to 15,000 miles of use. They are well maintained, normally, but remember, this is before all the internal engine problems begin.

 

 

Agreed this is the best route to go, also the most expensive. The Screaming Eagle Cam Shoe Conversion usually runs about $450 including parts in the Greater Chicago area.

I probably should have mentioned that I bought the full package, including longer duration cams. The entire cost of replacement S&S geardrive 510 cams and gear drive system, adjustable pushrods, gaskets, o-rings, oil change etc, along with labor, was about $1100 about 9 or 10 years ago.

 

Edited December 7, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[cowpuc]

All due respect buddy, but I dont know anyone that has had this job done for under $300...sure...you can tackle it yourself but you might need to buy some tools and of course gaskets and the replacement tensioners.

 

The only real issue is that they are a 'wear item' but are not addressed in the manual. At least, not during the years I was riding a couple of Twin-Cam motors. There was, at the time, no real understanding of how fast they wear and how much damage the tiny plastic pieces can do once they get in the oil passages of the motor.

 

In my case, I had the complete gear drive conversion done, and it was about $1100...but the plastic shoes are now gone and its all gears in there now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good point Brian, I havent had someone else work on any of my bikes sense,, well,,, never.. I have a tendency to forget that not everyone does that.. Your pricing of having it done sounds logical (no idea what shop rates are now but they gotta be in the $100 an hour range). Hey Brian, you forgot to include locktite in your pricing on doing it yourself,, lots of locktite :rotf: Thanks for keeping me honest!!

 

You know, for the life of me I still cant understand why/how HD, after spending all that time and $$ developing the TC motor decided to use that stupid little cheap plastic shoe.. They should have went gear driven in the first place...

 

 

Maybe not an issue but I always see the police bikes around here sitting and idling a lot, or being ridden in-town stop and go traffic all the time. Not as easy on the machine as highway cruising so a bike with more miles may have less hours of wear. As for the Road King, I like them. I also had a 1500 Vulcan Classic I bought new that I traded on my RSV (2005 with 40,000 miles when traded) , I loved it, but I don't miss it now.

 

Thats an interesting point Oldodge. Even though the newer ones drop the rear cylinder (electronically) when warm and idling, its still an air cooled motor... Hmmm,, certainly something to consider if your looking at a Police bike..

I like the RK's too,, I still love the looks of the Heritage Special, Fat Boy and the old FLH's with the dull aluminum nacelle..

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

You know, for the life of me I still cant understand why/how HD, after spending all that time and $$ developing the TC motor decided to use that stupid little cheap plastic shoe.. They should have went gear driven in the first place...

 

 

 

Back in the early and mid 90's, the engineering involved looking at the upcoming EPA noise regulations. Previous HD Evo motors all used a gear drive cam, it was noisy, but generaly not noticed since most HDs came rolling out of the dealer with loud exhaust.

 

The chains are much quieter than gear drives, and the EPA measures the TOTAL vehicle noise. If HD could make the stock engine quieter, they could make the stock exhaust a bit louder and still pass the requirements.

 

Blame your government!

 

Edited December 7, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[cowpuc]

Back in the early and mid 90's, the engineering involved looking at the upcoming EPA noise regulations. Previous HD Evo motors all used a gear drive cam, it was noisy, but generaly not noticed since most HDs came rolling out of the dealer with loud exhaust.

 

The chains are much quiet than gear drives, and the EPA measures the TOTAL vehicle noise. If HD could make the stock engine quieter, they could make the stock exhaust a bit louder and still pass the requirements.

 

Blame your government!

 

 

THAT is mind boggling... I wonder if air displacement noise is part of the equation? Maybe an silent electric motored HD, fully streamlined with an on board recording of a straight piped old sportster blairing is in our future What is motorcycling becoming

You know, considering the point you made here Brian, now I understand how Yamaha got away with the clutch whine, they focused on super quiet exhaust and spent their allotment for noise on straight cut gears for the clutch..

Thats just crazy Brian...

[Yammer Dan]

Don't need no stinking Hardley.... I got a 2nd gen!! Looks like a good old man's ride Barry. When I get too old to handle "Brown Sugar" I'll have that 2nd Gen....

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Thats just crazy Brian...

 

Did you also know that the TwinCam was designed as a joint effort between HD engineers and Porshe in Germany? HD flew a team of engineers to Germany to get 'educated'. Remember, most of the engineers that HD had at the time were kids when the Evo motor was developed. They needed some help.

 

Overall the TwinCam is a pretty reliable, robust motor. It will take some upgrades in horsepower and keep running strong, looking pretty, sounding good, and attracting women. Thats what matters most in the bar-hopper world.

 

UNLESS.

 

Unless you begin to use it for pileing on 10's of thousands of miles per year....then its not as good.

 

 

 

[cowpuc]

Don't need no stinking Hardley.... I got a 2nd gen!! Looks like a good old man's ride Barry. When I get too old to handle "Brown Sugar" I'll have that 2nd Gen....

 

AND, if he keeps tinkering with that 2nd gen he will have it permanantly running on 2 cylinders and than he will have a real Hardley,, minus the cam gear wear problems...

You know Dan, if you did that with Sugar you could probably even still put a whoopin on a stock HD...

[cowpuc]

Did you also know that the TwinCam was designed as a joint effort between HD engineers and Porshe in Germany? HD flew a team of engineers to Germany to get 'educated'. Remember, most of the engineers that HD had at the time were kids when the Evo motor was developed. They needed some help.

 

Overall the TwinCam is a pretty reliable, robust motor. It will take some upgrades in horsepower and keep running strong, looking pretty, sounding good, and attracting women. Thats what matters most in the bar-hopper world.

 

UNLESS.

 

Unless you begin to use it for pileing on 10's of thousands of miles per year....then its not as good.

 

 

 

 

Didnt know that, I thought Porshe was only in on the V-Rod design and in looking at the new 500/750's I can see Porshe design in them...

[Guest]

I aint saying nothing.......

[Barrycuda]

Geez Louise!!! I better stay put with my never fail Vulcan....

 

Thanks to everyone, sincerely, for all your input and advice. I am not going to pursue this bike.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Geez Louise!!! I better stay put with my never fail Vulcan....

 

Thanks to everyone, sincerely, for all your input and advice. I am not going to pursue this bike.

 

Well...hmmm...I didnt intend to knock the shine off the rose...

 

I know a lot of riders who thoroughly enjoy their Harley...as long as you have some information going in, you can be prepared. By that I mean, if you need money to keep it on the road, you will have it available.

 

Of course, a new bike with a warranty is a different animal. Other than the monthly payments, and of course insurance, all you will need is money for gas, tires, and oil. (meaning maintenance).

 

Either way, I hope you enjoy whatever it is that you ride.