switch by pass

[2WHEELSFORME]

I have installed the by pass connection between the brown/blue and red wires. This fires up the fuel pump and starter as well as other things I'm sure. My question is what more is needed to completly remove the need for a key? Will another toggle between the blue/yellow and blue /black wire complete the key bypass?

[Sylvester]

WHY?

I am sure there is a reason, but I don't understand.

 

[Flyinfool]

The WHY is for not if but when the ignition switch fails while on the road.

You just want that bypass switch very well hidden so that it is not to easy for someone to take the bike.

[Sylvester]

I understand now. How often has this been a problem on the RSV? I installed a relay for the passing lamps to take the load off the switch eight years ago. No problems in the 182,xxx miles on the machine.

 

[Bert2006]

I understand now. How often has this been a problem on the RSV? I installed a relay for the passing lamps to take the load off the switch eight years ago. No problems in the 182,xxx miles on the machine.

 

 

Is that a common problem? Mine had passing lamps installed, yamaha accessories, would there be a relay included when those are installed? If yes where would it normally be?

[wes0778]

I have installed the by pass connection between the brown/blue and red wires. This fires up the fuel pump and starter as well as other things I'm sure. My question is what more is needed to completly remove the need for a key? Will another toggle between the blue/yellow and blue /black wire complete the key bypass?

 

To do a complete bypass, on a 2nd Gen, with ONE switch you would need a triple pole single throw switch.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The WHY is for not if but when the ignition switch fails while on the road.

You just want that bypass switch very well hidden so that it is not to easy for someone to take the bike.

 

No one steals these bikes.

 

That said, someone might flip the switch for fun...leaving your lights on for hours...so yeah...hide that thing.

 

 

[mabeline]

I did the ignition mode that Carbon One wrote up in the Tech Library. That should cure the ignition problem burning out, with very little current running through it. RIGHT ???

[2WHEELSFORME]

To do a complete bypass, on a 2nd Gen, with ONE switch you would need a triple pole single throw switch.

 

Wes: Which wires are you saying I need to use? I should have checked it while the tank was off.

[Sylvester]

Is that a common problem? Mine had passing lamps installed, yamaha accessories, would there be a relay included when those are installed? If yes where would it normally be?

Probably not. If there is a relay, it would be behind the main fairing. And it is a common problem with these machines. Without the relay the ignition switch has to power all the lights and the starter during ignition causing it to heat up.

 

[wes0778]

Wes: Which wires are you saying I need to use? I should have checked it while the tank was off.

There are 3 pairs of wires.

1. Accessories (AM-FM radio, CB radio, aux power Jacks, etc)

2. All the main stuff (lights starter, etc)

3. The wires to the Ignitor unit (this is what lets the spark plugs spark)

 

The "main stuff" contacts are generally the one that that gives trouble. If you only jumper those contacts, the starter will be able to spin the motor 'till the battery runs down and the bike will never start. You would still need the key to close the ignitor wire contacts, unless of course you have used a multi pole switch and jumpered the ignitor wires too.

[GeorgeS]

See vrtech section for information on the relay, installation to bypass the switch.

 

I suggest useing a " Bosch" relay, you can get them in 30 amp, or 40 amp versions.

Use a 40 amp.

 

Check the write up in tech section , easy to do.

[2WHEELSFORME]

This thread is not about using a relay to reroute the heavy current from the switch. My desire is to identify the wires needed to add another toggle switch or more if needed and make it possible to crank and run with out a key. Yes I know it will need to be hidden. Thank you Wes.

[djh3]

Yea I dont understand why to make a bypass for the ignition switch if you still have to use the switch to make it run? The red and Br/b wire is like the main power but if the switch fries and your unlucky enough that it cooks the ecu side also your done. So what if you put 2 switches hidden to control the circuits. What other wires would you have to connect and how? I kind of tried t study the schematic in Carbon ones write up but aint getting a grasp on it neither.

[wes0778]

Yea I dont understand why to make a bypass for the ignition switch if you still have to use the switch to make it run? The red and Br/b wire is like the main power but if the switch fries and your unlucky enough that it cooks the ecu side also your done. So what if you put 2 switches hidden to control the circuits. What other wires would you have to connect and how? I kind of tried t study the schematic in Carbon ones write up but aint getting a grasp on it neither.

 

Generally it is the main power contacts that "burn up" and fail, leaving the other 2 sets intact.

Thus, in most cases, a bypass on that circuit is sufficient to "get you home".

Even IF I were to put a bypass switch in the ignitor circuit, it would be a switch that required a key...

But that is just my

[GeorgeS]

The relay, is to make a permenant " bypass " of the ON/OFF main contacts, thru the switch that carry Heavy Current. This is the set of contacts that Fails. Over the years since the 2nd gen came out, this is almost always the set that fails, or burns up due to heavy current flow thru that set of contacts.

 

Many!! folks have had this switch fail !! quite common problem on these bikes.

 

1st Gen Ventures did not have this problem--

 

You have two options here, Wire in a Bypass switch, and Hide it somplace, to use If and when the switch fails.

 

Or-- install a Relay to Bypass those contacts on a permanent basis, and do it Before your switch fails.

Your contacts are then used to Operate the Relay Coil. " ONLY ". (( Low Current draw ))

The Contacts of the Relay, then carry the heavy current flow.

 

If the relay fails, its cheap to replace !!

 

If the Switch fails, its Expensive to replace !!! ( and a lot of work )

 

-----

I recently did the mod to my 08 which has 19K on it -- No trouble with the switch as yet, but decided to do the mod before getting stopped out on the road.

 

I used Two , Bosh relays, wired in parallell, each has two sets of contacts, so I now have 4 sets of contacts, instead of just one set in the switch. ( Yes I know, this is Overkill )

 

Its a very simply wireing job to install the relay. You can buy Bosh Relays at most any auto parts store. You can get them in 30 AMP rateings, and 40 Amp rateings,

Single contact, and Double contact,

 

Cost about 7 to 10 bucks apiece. Cheap compared to a new Ignition Switch from yamaha. There are EL-Cheapo's relays, out there but get the " Bosh Brand," they are worth the extra money.

 

So: Thats why you should do this Mod. Or you can wait untill your headed across Nevada, on Highway 50, and your 278 miles from " No where " and your switch fails !!! :whistling: :stirthepot: :depressed:

Edited November 29, 2013 by GeorgeS

[csdexter]

Same here, I made a nice harness for the relay and put it on the bike some 6 months ago. No trouble yet. I did it because I couldn't sleep at night thinking that EVERYTHING on the bike is powered through the ignition switch. Which is not only insanely expensive, but you also have to drill out, because it uses security bolts whose heads shear off during assembly.

 

I used a Panasonic/Nais automotive type ISO mini relay (P/N CB1a-M-12V) that's rated for 40A. For the wiring, I used 14AWG silicon wire from an RC model shop (for the main load-carrying wire). The harness (minus the ground wire, which was added after the photo was taken) looks like this:

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/11730-2/IMG_20130624_003836.jpg

 

... and on the bike it looks like this:

http://gallery.dexter.linux360.ro/d/12181-2/IMG_20130711_235005.jpg

 

Like previous posters said, being left in the dark in the middle of nowhere is no fun and this is one good countermeasure ;-)

[djh3]

OK so guess I'lll have to study up on this a bit more.

[djh3]

I have got to be missing SOMETHING !!!! I installed the realy nice and tidy. I even put a couple of wires on the #30 and #87 pins with bayonet connecters so I can install a switch if I want later. I slaved in a switch to see if it worked and it will allow the bike to turn over but will not run. What wires need to be connected where to allow the bike to run if the switch goes completly out? It certainly is not the harness side of the Red and Brown/Blue wires. Thats where I have my switch and it will not run. So if a switch here dont allow it to run, why put one in?

[csdexter]

The physical key switch contains two (US) or three (EU) electrical switches. One of the latter is the one going to the thick wires on the two-position connector, the one that you use the relay for. The other one is going to the other, much smaller, connector.

 

Look at the schematic and notice that, in order to start the bike, both must be closed (on) -- the second one enables the ignition while the first one powers the bike.

 

The reason for which people only mount one relay is because the switch fails due to electrical overload and NOT due to mechanical reasons. So the section failing is the high power one and not the smaller one. By using a relay to take the load off the power section, the switch will virtually live forever :-)

 

If you really intended to have a complete bypass "for those cases when everything breaks", then you should install a second manual switch to close the second circuit as well. Or, if you happen to have a DPST switch, you can use that for both circuits.

 

Hope this brings some light on the issue.

[djh3]

OK forgive me for not understanding the wire diagraham completly. They have allways been a bit mystifying o me. I did run across a write up on another site and finnaly think I have seen an explaination I understand. I dont recall seeing a diagraham for anything except the realy install. If I missed it somwhere I appoligize.

 

1. When there is no continuity between the Brown/Blue wire and the red wire there will be no power, except for the radio. These wires close the circuit to the main fuse, battery, starter relay, starter motor, and the Start Switches (including the clutch, neutral, side stand, and stop switches).

 

2. When there is no continuity on the blue/yellow wire and the blue/black wire there will be power and the starter will turn over the engine however the engine will not start. These wires close the circuit for the ignition coil, coils and to the spark plug.

 

So if I understand this right a switch needs to be inbetween the blue/black and blue/yellow wires to make the engine fire. A DPST (3 pole switch?) would do this? I'm still learning switch lingo.

 

[csdexter]

The explanation you found on that other site is correct.

 

A dual-pole single-throw (DPST) switch has a diagram like this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/DPST-symbol.svg

It's like two SPST switches glued together so that they move at the same time, opening or closing both circuits at the same time.

 

So, getting back to "how do I connect stuff", things should be like this (with reference to the diagram above):

- RED wire to top right terminal

- RED/BLUE wire to top left terminal

- BLUE/YELLOW wire to bottom right terminal

- BLUE/BLACK wire to bottom left terminal

 

Hope this helps.

[djh3]

Unfortunatly the link will not open for me. It saves the pic or whatever in a format SVG I can not open. So this is a pic I found of a dpst switch off e-bay.

[csdexter]

SVG is a pretty standard format for vector images and the file in question came from the Wikipedia article on switches. You must be using a very old browser because even Internet Explorer understands SVG nowadays :-) Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Anyway, working on your photo and assuming the natural placement of terminals:

- RED on top left

- RED/BLUE on bottom left

- BLUE/YELLOW on top right

- BLUE/BLACK on bottom right

[djh3]

Thanks Yea dont know about browser and age. Wont be long and microsoft wont be supplying any info for my machine anyways as I'm still on XP and support stops this comming April. I did go out and pull the other connector. 3 pin with the mentioned wires. I happened to have a toggle switch that had some wire nibs on it from previous use. I simply pluged the wires into the Bl/Yl Bl/Bk and started bike, it ran. Flipped switch and stopped. So that seems to be the ticket if someone is so inclined. As for me, I'm about convinced that if you install the realay as mentioned it redirects the load and you wont have the problem of buring up the switch.

On a simular note. There was a thread I was reading the other day about a bloke that found replacment points for the fuel pump. I know the pumps have been problematic for some. So looking at the point he pulled out they were all but missing on one side, very ugly looking. So I know that if you run to much power thru a to small circutry it causes heat build up and will burn wires plum in two. The pump is on its own circutry relay controled right? I kind of thought maybe if it ran thru the ignition switch maybe the reduction of flow thru there might cause the points burning up.