External Hard Drive suggestions

[ragtop69gs]

I am in the market for a 2TB external drive to do backups of my win 7 64bit pc's. Seems most all the common ones (inexpensive) have tons of reviews claiming failures of one sort or another, :feedback: on helping me make a decision. I'm confused.

 

I bought a Seagate backup plus 3TB drive only to find out that Win7 backup/restore doesn't like 3 TB drives. The drive is formatted in a way that causes the windows backup and restore to fail when creating a system image because it uses a native 4k sector size. Native 4k drives are not supported by Windows 7.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Re-partition then reformat that 3TB drive...2 partitions of 1.5TB, or a 2TB and a 1TB should work.

 

The native formatting that came on the drive can be always be changed to match your OS.

 

There are countless webpages showing how to do this...just google it or call the tech support line for the drive.

 

 

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/211931en

 

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/206419en?popup=true

 

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/ht/partition-hard-drive-windows-7.htm

 

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/43395.aspx

 

http://geekdrop.com/content/how-to-format-hard-drive-to-fat32-in-windows-7-or-vista-or-in-general

Edited November 4, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[Barrycuda]

You mentioned external hard drive. If not for install, and just to transfer materials, then any should work. I have an older maxtor 750 GB and 3 western digital 3GB, no issues...

[ragtop69gs]

Re-partition then reformat that 3TB drive...2 partitions of 1.5TB, or a 2TB and a 1TB should work.

 

The native formatting that came on the drive can be always be changed to match your OS.

 

There are countless webpages showing how to do this...just google it or call the tech support line for the drive.

 

 

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/211931en

 

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/206419en?popup=true

 

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows7/ht/partition-hard-drive-windows-7.htm

 

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/43395.aspx

 

http://geekdrop.com/content/how-to-format-hard-drive-to-fat32-in-windows-7-or-vista-or-in-general

 

I read several seagate tech articles, it appears that it's more a hardware design issue in how the HD is constructed and Seagate tech support claimed that reformatting or partitioning will not overcome the issues win 7 has with drives over 2.5TB

 

I could probably have used it with an aftermarket backup software package but wanted to keep this as simple as possible, I'm a dangerous novice when it comes to computers, I know just enough to get myself in deep doo-doo

 

This is a non-issue since I returned the 3TB drive and am looking for a reliable 2TB drive to replace it. Any you can recommend?

[ragtop69gs]

You mentioned external hard drive. If not for install, and just to transfer materials, then any should work. I have an older maxtor 750 GB and 3 western digital 3GB, no issues...

 

GB drives are no problem. When they exceed 2.19TB Winders 7 can't handle them.

Edited November 4, 2013 by ragtop69gs

[GAWildKat]

As someone who builds and repairs computers enough to test drive dependability I can say get a Western digital external drive. All external drives are really an internal drive in an external enclosure. I bought a bunch of seagate drives a couple of yrs ago for upgrades to all the pcs in the house, all but 2 have failed and the only reason those 2 haven't failed is that system doesn't get turned on anymore, Used to I could go 10+yrs without a drive failure, but 2 yrs? seriously? I went back to Western Digital after trying seagate drives based on online reviews, never again!

[ragtop69gs]

As someone who builds and repairs computers enough to test drive dependability I can say get a Western digital external drive. All external drives are really an internal drive in an external enclosure. I bought a bunch of seagate drives a couple of yrs ago for upgrades to all the pcs in the house, all but 2 have failed and the only reason those 2 haven't failed is that system doesn't get turned on anymore, Used to I could go 10+yrs without a drive failure, but 2 yrs? seriously? I went back to Western Digital after trying seagate drives based on online reviews, never again!

 

Thanks for your observations on drive dependability.

 

Do you agree with what Brian said (post 2) about being able to overcome the HD size issue with win7 by formatting and partitioning a 3TB or larger hd ?

[GAWildKat]

I haven't tried it yet, I haven't invested in a 3tb drive yet, but, I will ask Mike to read up on that. I would think you are correct, seeing as Microsoft has always built limitations into Windows. However I don't see where reformatting and repartitioning in linux would be a problem. Obviously, though, not everyone is familiar with linux.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

If you already returned the drive, then its probably a non-issue, but if you partition the Seagate 3TB drive as two, 1.5TB drives, then win7 should handle it just fine. It will look (to windows) as if you had plugged in two 1.5TB drives at the same time, and it should set them up with 2 new drive letters, say, D & E, (or maybe E & F, if you have an optical drive installed).

 

Then you can format each virtual drive as you see fit...NTFS or FAT32, most likely.

 

If you have already returned the 3TB drive and are looking to buy a new drive, then yes, I agree with GaWildcat....Western Digital makes good durable drives...the only issue I have with WD is the damn imbedded smartware software on the external drives they sell.

 

If you like it I suppose its OK, but I didnt, and it lives on the drive FOREVER, even after a full re-partition and reformat...at least, it did on mine. I think its in the drive firmware but I really cant say for sure, and moved on so its a non-issue now.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I no longer use windows, so I'm a bit rusty on the details.

 

Keep us posted on whatever ends up working for you.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[ragtop69gs]

I found this microsoft article that explains how to use drives larger than 2.19TB , it is possible if......

 

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/i-have-a-3-tb-drive-windows-7-ultimate-wont-format/b1cc3811-f25f-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I found this microsoft article that explains how to use drives larger than 2.19TB , it is possible if......

 

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/i-have-a-3-tb-drive-windows-7-ultimate-wont-format/b1cc3811-f25f-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5

 

 

Ooops...from that page:

 

"It's also probably not a great idea just due to the fact that if Windows fails you will likely lose all the data on that partition."

 

Translated, that means WHEN windows fails, you lose it all, buddy.(BTW that information concerns an INTERNAL drive, with windows installed, which operates a bit differently than an external mass storage drive)

 

Make 2 backups and cross yer fingers, and DONT let cryptolocker in the door!

 

Edited November 4, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[RandyR]

The problem is that the backup program with Win 7 (and earlier) isn't able to to handle image backups if the low level hardware sector size is too big. However, the low level sector size is not changed when one re-partitions to smaller partitions. Microsoft officially considers this as working as designed. I know, because I filed a bug report with them after buying a 3tb usb external disk to do backups a year ago of a new Win 7 system with a 2tb internal disk. Not a problem under Windows 8 which has a new backup program.

 

Why the Win 8 backup program isn't available for older Win 7 users is probably a marketing and not technical decision, since the underlying file structure didn't change.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The sector size can be reduced but this is getting waaay too technical and beyond being reasonable to expect the average computer user to be messing around with.

 

There are also format and partition managers that can make the task...well...manageable.

 

But....when all the feathers have settled, its just better to buy a compatible drive in the first place.

 

 

Here is some technical information I dug up, regarding sector sizes on the new drives:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

Edited November 4, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[spear]

Seagate. SEAGATE?

Forget them. I've had two of them - 1Tb and 2Tb. Both crapped themselves in no time.

I'm currently running WD and Maxtor. WD would have to be the ducks' guts!

I also find that portable HDs are far more indestructible than straight out externals.

A little more expensive perhaps, but when you consider the value of your files and the fact they are getting cheaper every day - it's a no-brainer really.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

And this looks interesting:

 

http://www.wdc.com/global/products/features/?id=7&language=1

 

 

[RandyR]

Newer drives have their own internal microprocessors and memory with code in them that controls error correction and bad block movement and optimizing speed in various ways. ie, they're smart drives, but not all manufacturers do this exactly the same way (no standard).

 

said another way.

 

The disk drive's internal logic presents the data to the operating system in a more-or-less standard way but underneath may use proprietary methods to achieve performance and capacity that wasn't envisioned by Windows developers.

 

The V7 and earlier Windows image backup saves and restores boot information which contains low level code in a very specific format. Its difficult for the new high capacity smart disks to 'fake' this specific boot image format.

 

btw. one of the best improvements in Win 8 is its ability to boot up very fast as compared to previous versions of Windows.

[ragtop69gs]

I should mention that after backing up, the drive will be disconnected from the system to prevent virus/malware migration onto the backup drive. Then once a month it will be updated after scans ensures there is no nasties on the pc.

 

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread, it should help others as well.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I should mention that after backing up, the drive will be disconnected from the system to prevent virus/malware migration onto the backup drive. Then once a month it will be updated after scans ensures there is no nasties on the pc.

 

 

 

Thats called a 'cold' backup...and its a good strategy, especially with the cryptolocker malware lingering out there.

 

 

If you use a cloning program, like Acronis True Image, or RedoBackup, (we use Carbon Copy Cloner on Macs) it makes hard drive failures and major virus/malware infections a slight nuisance, rather than a disaster.

 

Cloning software will make a sector-for sector IDENTICAL and BOOTABLE copy of your hard drive, and then you put that clone in a safe place. If something happens, such as a virus, a hard drive failure, a fire, or theft, you simply put that cloned drive in use. You dont have to re-install programs, re-enter passwords, and migrate thousands of files, pictures, documents, and videos. Its just like nothing happened. Depending on how recent the clone is, you might lose some recent work, and thats all.

 

I'm not directly familiar with using Acronis, or other Windows PC cloners, but the cloners in the Mac world work fine. They can even clone Windows hard disks...using the Mac as the control computer, and a source windows drive and a target blank hard drive. It only reads sectors, then copies them, it doesnt actually execute anything on the source or target drive. This is mostly good, but can also be bad, since if there IS a virus on the source drive, it will be copied bit-for-bit onto the target drive. Just be careful, and you should be fine.

Edited November 4, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[wes0778]

While we are talking about Winders 7 and external drives,

I have a 500GB WD (USB)external that works fine on my WinXP machines and even on my Win7 Home Premium Acer netbook, but when I plug it into my Win7 Pro HP desktop, I get a message that the new drive is not formatted, do I want to format it? Why would that be?

[ragtop69gs]

I went out today and bought a HD enclosure and a Western Digital 2TB RED NAS 3.5" drive that I'm going to partition and format as one large drive to clone my drive. The Red drives come with a 5 year warranty and if the drive fails within the warranty period WD will recover the data at no charge.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I get a message that the new drive is not formatted, do I want to format it? Why would that be?

 

 

No, dont format the drive unless you want to erase all data on the disk. Something in the HP is not recognizing the drive...

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I went out today and bought a HD enclosure and a Western Digital 2TB RED NAS 3.5" drive that I'm going to partition and format as one large drive to clone my drive. The Red drives come with a 5 year warranty and if the drive fails within the warranty period WD will recover the data at no charge.

 

I forgot to mention that the cloning process can be very slow, especially over USB ports. Depending on how much data you have, it could take from several hours to maybe a day...but then its done and you should be safe from the bad guys...mostly.

 

One way to be sure the clone works is to actually remove the primary drive and install the clone, and make sure it boots and works ok. Assuming it does, I would then use that clone as my new working drive, and store the original. This is because the older drive presumably is closer to its end of life and the new drive is fresh and should work well for many years. The original drive is now retired but you KNOW it will work in the computer.

 

 

 

 

 

[ragtop69gs]

I forgot to mention that the cloning process can be very slow, especially over USB ports. Depending on how much data you have, it could take from several hours to maybe a day...but then its done and you should be safe from the bad guys...mostly.

 

One way to be sure the clone works is to actually remove the primary drive and install the clone, and make sure it boots and works ok. Assuming it does, I would then use that clone as my new working drive, and store the original. This is because the older drive presumably is closer to its end of life and the new drive is fresh and should work well for many years. The original drive is now retired but you KNOW it will work in the computer.

 

 

 

The drive I am cloning has about 600GB on it so I would expect it to be an all day affair over a usb2 connection. Lots of photos, music and video.

WD offers Acronis true image software if it detects that you have a WD drive attached to the system.

[BuddyRich]

I won't buy WD's had way too many failures. If your gonna get seagates then get the constellations ( server rated). The problem with a lot of today's drives is they have gotten cheaper and can't take being left on 24x7x365. IBM and Hitachi's I don't have problems with. If your gonna use it for your backup get server rated drives. They cost more but are worth it. Then get a usb housing and stuff it in that...

[Hummingbird]

I read probably 80% of the text in this thread - not sure how I did that 'cause I never could read nor understand greek before.

 

So - with that previous statement in mind, how can I back up my Imac (using 10.7.5 os 3.4ghz Intel core i7)) ?

 

second - how do I back up my Imac (using W7 Ultimate 3.4ghz. Intel Core i7) ?

 

I know I will have to use 2 separate external hd's and I have a ton of picture, don't really care about music, address book is critical and how do I know if it actually saved anything ?