Charging question for the electrical folks

[Squidley]

I purchased a stator off ebay that within 3 weeks stopped charging. Now the guy who sold it to me (who shall remain nameless for now) mentioned to me that the Regulator/Rectifier can as he put it to me in an email...

 

"check the reg/rect as if it is not doing its job the stator will often burn out because it is putting out but the regulator not regulating."

 

 

I could see this possibly happening if you weren't paying attention to your volts. How likely is this to happen and would this be something that happens in 3 weeks with minimal riding?

 

I personally think this is a stretch, the system was charging, on a newer style R/R and then pretty much just stopped. It never pushed out real good voltage. I'm not saying that the newer R/R isn't the culprit, but I would like to hear from y'all that are more in the know about these things than I am.

 

The guy said there is a 1 year warranty, but I dont think I'm going to waste my time and money on another stator from him.

[Dano]

Of course you know how to ohm out the stator, do it while it's still in the bike. If you pull it out, it may lose it's grounding-out point then. Just crank the bike (of course TCI unplugged) and read the ohmage across the lines (2 at a time) and see how they read compared to the other 2 connections to the three wires.

 

Also do an ohms test to ground from all 3 lines separately, just to check that too.

 

 

Heck, that's ANOTHER evening out in the cool air now!!

[bongobobny]

If the R/R was causing a short between two of the stator wires it would cause excessive current on the windings. If that were the case though you would not get any charging of the battery the same as if the stator was shot...

[Flyinfool]

Yes a bad RR can take out a stator. A bad stator can take out a RR.

 

You need to run thru the whole test procedure.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81297

[Guest tx2sturgis]

If there is ANY doubt about the R/R when replacing the stator, they should really be replaced together, as a set, with known good.

 

And the reverse is true.

 

As Jeff said, a stator that is (or was) failing can take a R/R with it. And the reverse is also true.

 

Buying this stuff on ebay would not be my first preference either. Not saying its a crap shoot...but it COULD be.

 

[V7Goose]

"check the reg/rect as if it is not doing its job the stator will often burn out because it is putting out but the regulator not regulating."

Actually, this is pretty much BUNK. This type of charging system does absolutely nothing to regulate the output of the stator- since it uses permanent magnets, that would be impossible. The stator is ALWAYS putting out 100% for whatever RPM the engine is running (faster = more voltage). The regulated voltage is controlled by the amount of resistance in the circuit (which controls the current flow), and the regulator part of the RR unit does nothing more than dump all excessive current beyond the load required by battery and electrical components to ground. So if the batery needs a charge and you are running extra lights, virtually all available current gets passed through the RR to the charging system, but once the load drops, the current is just shunted to ground instead of overcharging the battery.

 

Of course there will be some internal resistance in that shunt to ground that keeps the path from being a direct short, so a fault there could have an impact on the system. But it sounds like he is implying that the regulator is supposed to control how much output the stator produces, and that just is not the case here like it is with an alternator.

Goose

[KICKSHOT]

I am with the Goose on this one. He is right.

kickshot

[Flyinfool]

I think we are all in agreement, It is the seller that was not clear in how he worded his statement.

[Squidley]

Thanks Kent, I appreciate your input on this as I wasn't exactly sure. Thus why I'm asking you folks, it didn't make sense that the R/R could burn out the stator as it's just pushing AC current out.

 

As always I learn something new from y'all, do appreciate all of your views on this topic

[frankd]

The regulator works by shorting out the stator when the regulator output voltage gets up to 14.5V. Then the voltage going lower causes the regluator not to fire the stator shorting triacs and the voltage rises, causing the regulator to fire the triacs, over and over and over. This means that the regulator can not do anything to damage the stator. The stator is designed to tolerate being shorted. The stator can't damage the regulator either. If the stator shorts or grounds internally, the output just decreases.

 

Also, some here have cautioned that when jumping a Venture from an automobile NOT to have the car running because you will burn your regulator up. NOT TRUE. The only thing that will happen if you hook up a Venture to a voltage source that is above 14.5 Volts is that the regulator will fire the triacs (electronic solid state switches) that short the stator and this lowers the voltage. I verified this on my workbench with a variable DC supply connected to the output of the regulator and a VOM connected across the stator leads. When I brought the voltage up the meter indicated the triacs were firing across the stator leads, not the regulator output leads.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The stator is designed to tolerate being shorted. The stator can't damage the regulator either. If the stator shorts or grounds internally, the output just decreases.

 

Also, some here have cautioned that when jumping a Venture from an automobile NOT to have the car running because you will burn your regulator up. NOT TRUE. ..... I verified this on my workbench with a variable DC supply connected to the output of the regulator and a VOM connected across the stator leads.

 

Frank, I respectfully disagree.

 

Yes, a stator is designed to be shunted, with excess current being shorted when the R/R 'pulls down' the voltage and keeps the battery and electrical system happy..hence the name, 'shunt regulator'.

 

But this is on an intermittent basis, and shorting the stator CONTINUOUSLY will shorten its life by a good margin, due mainly to heat. If the R/R is bad, it could short one or more windings of the stator all the time. Not good...and it will probably take the battery and maybe some other electronics on the bike with it, if given enough time. And a mismatched HighOutput stator, paired with a marginal or sub-par regulator, the stator COULD fry the R/R.

 

As far as the bench test, your power supply is probably not able to provide the same level of current and voltage that an automobile charging system can put out.

 

The typical charging system on a car or pickup can put out 14.5 volts or more, and at levels of 50-200 amps(or more!) including the battery AND the alternator.

 

This is more than enough to 'cook' the typical R/R on a motorcycle, as it tries to shunt this excess current.

 

Its much safer for the bike if you shut the car off when jumping...and what good is done at the side of the road by 'testing' this to see what will happen?

 

My statement stands: If there is ANY doubt...replace both as a set. If you know that one or the other is fine, then save the money. But as they age, and one or the other is bad, whats the harm in replacing what is essentially a 'wear' item?

 

BTW...I did enjoy our chat on the Megalink the other day...holler the next time you're in the Great Southwest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by tx2sturgis