Is this typical Performance for 1st Gen 1300

[Guest Bigin]

91 1300 has an idle "chuff' and engine chugs below 2500 enough to rattle cowling in high gear roll ons below 50 mph, then smoothly runs like bat from you no where pulling hard. This thing shakes like my Electra Glide in that rpm range and speed. Also backfires coming down from 5000 rpm now, maybe not related. Carbs synched and inspected, diaphrams replaced, valves were tight so adjusted, compressions ok, NGK wires, shaft drive good, Does it in all gears, is not intermittent in that range, worse of course in 5th at low speed. Has 96k and has been well cared for unitl last couple years hardly ridden. Did both Sea foam and Ring free shock treats, not sure if work on carbs and valves helped or was the treatment, but is better, cleans up at 2500 now rather than 3100. Local gurus telling me the 1300xvd sometimes did this to the point when they were bought new, 1 customer in 4 complained about it, but not all have the characteristic, also some later RSV also have the tendency. Supposedly once the 1200 was punched out, this became an unforeseen draw back on some. Does any of this sound correct? Running out of options and expertise locally. You wonderful folks are my last hope.

[BradT]

I am hoping you get it fixed as it is not common at all. My 86 pulled hard from idle to redline.

 

I would think it is carb related but sounds like you should have it covered, with the things you did.

 

Someone else should jump in.

 

Brad

[Squidley]

Bigin,

 

Some folks have had similar problems with being in 5th gear at slower speeds. These V4's like revs the 1st gens easily spin up to 8K on the r's. Dont be afraid to run those RPM's up high, it wont hurt anything.

 

Drop a gear or 2 when roliing power on hard, all my 1st gens became rockets after the 4K mark and pulled hard to 8K. It might be just a getting used to how the engine works problem and not actually a mechanical thing as it sounds like you have gone through all the fixes that would be mentioned here.

[Kurt]

I notice on my 90 a chug at low rpm when I roll on the throttle when I haven't downshifted enough. Kinda like the chug on a pickup that is not shifted down and left to pull out of a slow situation. Roll that throttle and let her bark. Keep the rpm up and see how that works for you.

KURT

[mm482]

An exhaust system leak will cause a backfire if the RPMs drop quickly.

 

Earl

86 VR

00 RVS

[Guest Bigin]

Thanks for the input thus far, would like to clarify a little: the bike pulls as reasonably as can be expected in this low rpm high gear range, it just vibrates like a cylinder is having issues. I use the rpm ranges it was designed to run in at speed but at 45 when you are in high gear, to avoid the vibration you have to down shift to 4th if you want to leisurely pull a hill or accelerates slightly to pass. It will accelerate acceptably, but shakes. Does anyone else experience this?

[hipshot]

hey bigin, at 45 m.p.h. you should still be in third gear!

these old timers ,like to be wound up!

remember the old volkswagons?

 

same thing! best performance in high r.p.m.'s! just jt

[sarges46]

Did you do your own sync? Or a dealer...most cant do it right. Loose plug? Cracked plug boot?

 

Like the others said....gear her down and she should have enough giddy up to impress!

[Redneck]

What you are describing sounds normal to me. These v4s don't really get smooth under heavy load until you get about 3500 or 4k.

[Guest Bigin]

Unfortunately i do not own a sync. Dealer did the work. Plugs new, boots marginal I guess. Did find an exhaust leak right on the muffler welded seam, maybe liquid steel similar, its a pinhole on the bottom. Thank you all for you help and suggestions.

[Snarley Bill]

sounds like you have a clogged pilotjet.very common if it sits awhile.

[pegscraper]

A chuff at idle sounds like an intake boot leaking vacuum. You could spray some WD40 around the seams, and then if the idle suddenly picks up speed, you've found it.

[Venturous Randy]

First of all, my 83 1200 pulls fine and smooth from 1,500 RPM's even in 5th. That being said, a clogged pilot jet will cause all kinds of problems at lower RPM's, as wpredock mentioned. Also, keep in mind that the boots, spark plug caps, have a resistor in them and they do get corroded. If you have not replaced the spark plug caps, that is what I would do next. Just unscrew one and go to about any shop and they can match the style.

randya

[Guest Swifty]

I had exactly the same question on this site as soon as I bought my '86 VR. Being used to smoother running Honda engines I thought it just needed a good tuning but that didn't solve it....and after the fact it was a waste of money that I probably didn't need to spend at the time. Then Freebird came on and told me about the normal "rumble" at low rpm that these Yamaha V4s produce, and that some riders who aren't used to it think that there is something wrong with it. Since then I've gotten used to it and grown to love it! I now know mine is working great exactly the way it was built to run.

[Marcarl]

Now just because you put new sliders in, doesn't mesn that they are working. You need to look at them under runiing conditions, you may have not got the seals in the right place. There is also a little o-ring below the slider which you don't want to forget to put in, you may have lost one so check that out. Your discription is not common and I would look for more problems.

Also you didn't mention if you replaced the plugs. You need to do that as well.

[BradT]

I still believe what you describe is not exactly normal, I do not believe there should be that much vibration. Also you mentioned it has improved after some more work, SO I am still thinking it can/should be better.

 

Try some seafoam a couple more times and go for ride, poor excuse to ride but what a price to pay.

 

Brad

[Condor]

I'm just wondering if you have a new plug that's bad and not firing when under a load. Rattle and shake sounds like your dropping a cylinder. I can roll on my 83's from the low 1500's in 4th or 5th, and like Randy they're both smooth all the way up to redline. When you blip the throttle at idle, do you get a slight shake??

[Guest Bigin]

Wow you guys are great with the help.

The dealer inspected the carbs visually, nothing plugged or worn, and I have been running libreal amounts of the Seafoam, 3 cans now in past 400 miles and 1 ring free, while running it hard and high rpm's. It seems to be helping, running stronger and shake is moving to lower rpm, so maybe they missed something in the carb after all. I have replaced the boots, have tested for vacuum leaks, and the fine wire plugs were fine that came out, replaced with standard plugs, this had no effect. Plug wires are an unknown entity, will evaluate, although the dealer commented they were automotive wires and suggested they maybe a problem. Will checkk the diaphrams and oring issue to make sure. At idle when blipping throttle, in neutral it revs responsively, but has that constant chuff sound on a single cylinder. When in gear pulling out from stop it sound like a cushman scooter until past that 2500 rpm mark,but doesnt appear to be down enough on power to have a cylinder dead. Change oil last nite to prevent dilution with all the solvents working through, noticed when idling and warm throwing what appears to be very fine liquid carbon droplets on the floor at each exhaust and the newly found exhaust leak. That's how I found the pin hole in the exhaust, from the spot on the floor. At least i think its carbon. Plugs were checked after sync and were burning fine so not rich. Choke wasnt on. Maybe from the Sea Foam doing its thing. Never had a 4 stroke bike spot the floor like that after 10 mins of idling. You guys are great, thanks for the ideas. I will keep working on it.

[Yammer Dan]

Sea-Foam and ride. Sometimes it takes a while.

[endo]

Hi Bigin,

 

You need to identify the fluid spotting the floor, whether it is oil or simply condensation (as I suspect, just moisture).

 

Someone else mentioned pilot jets as a cause of roughness, and I agree. The main jets don't really come on strong (in relation to fuel/air mix) until above 3K rpm. The pilots do pretty much all the work up until then - so their cleanliness is critical. My 1st gen suffered that problem because it sat around a lot before I took ownership. Let's see how she does over time with the sea foam. Have you put in a strong mix of seafoam? You could try doubling the ratio when low on gas, burn through it, then fill her up.

 

When going through the sea foam, keep the rpms low so it all passes through the pilot jets, vs. just gobbled up by the mains. That'll help put it where you probably need it the most.

 

Good luck!

endo

[rewindgy]

There is something definitely not completey right with your Venture. Yes all Ventures "Chug" when they idle, but not that they rattle things. I have accidentally pulled away from a light in 3rd gear a couple of times and the bike complains abit, but does not rattle the dash. I've been known ( I know its not right) to cruise thru small towns two up with the tent trailer behind in 5th gear @ 25 - 30 Mph and it will pull cleanly back to 60 mph ( notice I did not say briskly). Sounds like one cylinder is not running right, when the Black box calved on my 85, the thing first started to miss slightly on one cylinder til around 3000 RPM, then it went away, then the cylinder just went dead, then another cylinder started the same thing - then we had a Harley ( chugged on 2 cylinders ) and then it died. Got a new Black Box and everything was all better! Turned out the stealer had filled the Battery with it in the bike and Acid had spilled and after time had eaten the connectors on the Black box and also some of the metal in the area that it had come in contact with. We all thought it was the Box that had corroded contacts but could not explain the other metal damage. A little bird informed us that a Pre-delivery /tech had been fired for half heartedly servicing brand new bikes and that more than one had come back with problems!

[Guest Bigin]

It is idling outside for past 10 mins and still have excessive liquid coming out of the exhaust. It definitley is fine black particles suspended in moisture of the exhaust. Not oil. Bike does not smoke or use oil. Pilot jet could be it. I like the seafoam and ride at this point. Might have to shop for the gallon size that, would be a mileage goal for this week. Whats not to like. Thanks again to everyone.

[Guest Bigin]

I will take a look at that also if the mechanic in a can doesnt help soon. From a dead stop in third gear with this bike right now would not be pretty at all. Thanks

[Marcarl]

The little pin holes in the front of your muffler are a 'supposed to be'. Helps let out excss moisture at times, and will spit carbon when idleing.

[Gearhead]

Some random thoughts...

 

I'm reading all this and one thing is for sure: it is really hard to describe a vibration or noise and have different people interpret it accurately!

 

Usually backfiring is caused by exhaust leaks where the head pipe attaches to the head. My 87 is leaky where the muffs go on and it does not backfire. Do later models have AIS, or is that only 2nd gen?

 

If you had a spark misfire due to problems in the wires or caps, I would not expect it to smooth out at higher RPM's. Have you guys experienced a lot of wire failure? On my Virago, the wires are wound copper; all the resistance is in the cap. Wound copper wires last a really long time, unlike carbon-strand resistance wires on a car.

 

"noticed when idling and warm throwing what appears to be very fine liquid carbon droplets on the floor at each exhaust and the newly found exhaust leak."

 

Normal. Even my fuel injected cars do this. Water is a normal by-product of combustion, and this is just carbon-y water. Excessive amounts could indicate rich. What's your gas mileage like?

 

"when the Black box calved on my 85, the thing first started to miss slightly on one cylinder til around 3000 RPM, then it went away"

 

Mine had corrosion on the TCI connector that was affecting the running intermittently, esp when water got in there. I cleaned up the connection and I think it's gone.

 

"Then Freebird came on and told me about the normal "rumble" at low rpm that these Yamaha V4s produce, and that some riders who aren't used to it think that there is something wrong with it. Since then I've gotten used to it and grown to love it! "

 

I think there is a lot to this, although hard to say if yours is in this normal range. V-engines in general have a "lumpy" quality that inlines do not. Even V-8's, although smooth, have a lumpy sounding exhaust note. I think the sound of the Venture is close to that of a V-8, but a little lumpier - like a cross between a slightly cammed-up V-8 and my Virago twin. I used to have a Honda Interceptor 500 V-4. Now it's been awhile, but I think it was smoother (although it still had the lumpy quality). It was a 90 deg vee angle and had smaller pistons, which probably account for that. The Venture's 70 deg angle is not ideal for balance.

 

My Venture was badly out of sync when I bought it. It also had a clutch basket rattle. Lo and behold, syncing the carbs fixed the rattle! And I would say that the lumpy nature of the engine was similar before and after the sync, but less pronounced afterward. However, I could never identify a particular RPM like you can where it got better. Also, the engine revs really well, but also runs fine at low RPM - no rattles, etc.

 

Jeremy