Lost package - who is responsible?

[Godlover]

I sent a seat set with sissy bar to a guy who purchased it on Ebay. Got a message from him that UPS dropped it over the fence at 9:00 pm last night and someone took off with the package. I did not insure or require a signature but the package automatically has a $100 insurance for loss. My UPS shipper said once the package is dropped they are not responsible. How do I settle with this guy or do I? He said he filed a police report.

[Trader]

I would ask for a copy of the police report to be sure the guy is not trying to scam you and be sure you either get one or find out a report number....something you can follow up on.

 

Also verify that UPS did "drop it over the fence"

 

I thought UPS needed either a signature or a pre-existing contract to drop off a package without a signature?

 

 

Either way....he says it was delivered....You did your part and so he has to pay for it....but good luck with that:mo money:

 

If it is a scam, then Probably the best you can hope for is to get him barred from EBay....which is meaningless because he can just sign on again as a different user.

[Black Owl]

With both UPS and FedEx, I had to authorize them to drop the package without a signature or even verifying that anyone was home. However, once I did that I absolved them from any responsibility once the package was delivered.

 

UPS should be able to verify that the package was delivered even without requesting signature delivery. Everything is scanned in and out by the driver.

9pm also seems like a very unusual time for UPS to be making deliveries.

[Godlover]

With both UPS and FedEx, I had to authorize them to drop the package without a signature or even verifying that anyone was home. However, once I did that I absolved them from any responsibility once the package was delivered.

 

UPS should be able to verify that the package was delivered even without requesting signature delivery. Everything is scanned in and out by the driver.

9pm also seems like a very unusual time for UPS to be making deliveries.

 

Tracking shows it was dropped at 9:05 pm

[LilBeaver]

Hmmm, this does seem a little fishy.

 

I believe that when a package does not require a signature delivery it is up to the driver as to whether something can be left at the doorstep or not. I actually had a short conversation with a UPS man about this a week or two ago -- I was pulling up to my house as he was loading my package back on his truck. He said that he was not comfortable leaving my box outside my house (Server case, which I greatly apprecaited since the box clearly said what was inside and it was big enough that anyone could see what it was from the street). We had a brief chat about what he leaves and what he doesn't -- he said that his choice is to leave small packages that are no obvious as to the contents and that can be reasonably well hidden [such as between the screen door and front door or on a back patio/porch] but will not leave anything that looks valuable or is large enough to draw attention to it, if left in front of a domicile.

Occasionally I do have to sign the form on the door for them to leave a package or just go to the regional center and pick it up there.

 

As pointed out, from the tracking information (or just call UPS) you should be able to read the driver's comments as to if someone received the package or if it was left somewhere (along with the specifics as to WHEN and WHERE it was left -- if the driver did his job).

 

IF the shipper claims [and can prove] the package was delivered to the address, then they are not liable for the missing package.

 

So +1 to the check with UPS and verify the police report and if those are all consistent with the guy's story, hope that he will be fair with YOU about resolving the situation . I would also make absolutely certain that ALL of the communication is done via fleabay so that if he opens a case against you, or whatever, it is officially recorded and you will at least have that on your behalf.

Once you dropped it off at the shipping location, you have done all you are capable of [besides requiring signature verification] to ensure that the buyer received the items presuming you can prove you actually shipped the items (receipt with dimensions and weight should suffice, a picture would be even better) and hence you are no longer liable for anything as you held up your end of the deal. Unfortunately, fleabay IS unhealthily biased to buyers and makes it very easy for scammers to do their thing.

 

Sorry to hear about this happening; I hope it works out okay

[Flyinfool]

A lot depends on the neighborhood.

UPS has no problem leaving a package on my front porch in plain sight of anyone walking by. I live 3 blocks from the high school. At least 50% of packages delivered are gone by the time I get home from work. I had to sign a paper with UPS that all deliveries to my house require an adult signature. When the delivery fails because I am at work, they leave a yellow sticky on the door. I then go down to the UPS office to pick it up in person after showing my photo ID with address. Some neighborhoods are the opposite, they will not leave anything without a signature.

 

As far as responsibility, if it comes down to a PP or CC dispute, you have the documentation that UPS did in fact deliver it, If the buyer then lost it that is not leagally your problem. But then the what feels like the right thing for you to do beyond what is legal will vary by the individual and their beliefs.

 

FWIW, I once dealt with a buyer that claimed his package was damaged in shipping. I filed a claim with FedEX because the shipper is the only one that can. FedEX then sent someone out to his house to look at the damage and the buyer refused to show it to the FedEX agent, FedEX then notified me that they were refusing the claim and also told me that this individual has filed a claim for $125 on each of the last 6 packages delivered to that address. In other words the buyer was scamming $125 off the price of every big item he bought and now got busted.

 

Since you have the UPS documentation to show that you did your part and had it delivered, Only you are left to make the determination as to;

1st, Do you believe him about it being stolen?

2nd Do you feel like absorbing part of HIS loss?

The banks will/should side with you if he files a claim.

 

I would print out copies of the UPS delivery notice to save for future reference.

 

AS far as insurance, I usually buy insurance on expensive items. I've seen to many things not make it in one piece or even just never make it.

[MiCarl]

 

Since you have the UPS documentation to show that you did your part and had it delivered, Only you are left to make the determination as to;

1st, Do you believe him about it being stolen?

2nd Do you feel like absorbing part of HIS loss?

The banks will/should side with you if he files a claim.

 

I would print out copies of the UPS delivery notice to save for future reference.

 

AS far as insurance, I usually buy insurance on expensive items. I've seen to many things not make it in one piece or even just never make it.

 

I agree. If the shipper got it onto his property (apparently inside a fence even) then you've done your part. You're not liable if someone stole it from him.

[PhilH]

I agree with most of the guys, UPS don't usually drop packages over the fence. I am 75% sure that you are being scammed, but I'll give the other guy the benefit of the doubt.

 

Research, research, research. Good luck with your findings.

[Eck]

I agree. If the shipper got it onto his property (apparently inside a fence even) then you've done your part. You're not liable if someone stole it from him.

 

 

Again, I am in total agreement with Micarl..

You are not liable if someone stold it from him..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Huggy]

It's between UPS and the guy they delivered it to!!!

[bongobobny]

Yup! If UPS proves it was indeed delivered, you are off the hook...

[billmac]

never heard of a package delivered by dropping it over the fence.

[syscrusher]

UPS will only pay off on damage insurance if you pay them to pack the item so it can get expensive to get insurance from UPS. I'll bet a trophy nickel that UPS also would not pay on an insurance claim for theft after delivery so the money spent on insurance would likely have been wasted anyway.

 

DID THE BUYER ASK YOU TO SHIP THE PACKAGE WITH A SIGNATURE REQUIREMENT?

If no, then you did do all that you were asked to do, but not all that you could have done because you could have made the signature requirement.

If yes, then you didn't execute the shipping to adequate standards and you are partly or even substantially responsible for the loss.

 

How much money was involved?

Edited October 5, 2013 by syscrusher
beta

[Mike G in SC]

If he is admitting it was stolen from his property,,,,,, kind of answers it's self.

Even with a police report,,,, it was delivered.

 

I let them drop in my carport where my bikes and such sit. 20+ years never a second thought.

Buyer should know his neighborhood and advise UPS/FedEx/USPS to or not to drop without signature. (and probably also state it to the shipper if buyer's address is questionable)

[Godlover]

Thanks for the perspectives. If he asked asked me to send it with signature required I would have. I contacted him at least 3 times before I shipped and twice after. I never heard from him until the day of the lost package when he asked for the tracking number (which I had already sent) and he replied an hour later saying it was stolen. He has excellent rating on Ebay and I don't think he is trying to pull one over on me. I feel bad for him but know I did my part. Thanks again!

[dacheedah]

whats the address? I want to take a look on google earth.

 

I always ship something sold with a delivery confirmation and insurance, if delivered that ends your responsibility and insurance covers the loss or damage while enroute not on site. Anything over like $100.00 or with low feedback I always want a signature on but in the end a buyer should know their neighborhood.

 

I would also call the police and the local UPS agent. 9PM seems odd to me, did he give you the link or did you go to ups's website and enter your own tracking number?

 

At my old house the UPS / fed ex guys knew me and dropped my small packages over the back fence onto my back door stoop.

[Trader]

But, something we might be missing here.....When buying on ebay USUALLY the item is paid for before it is shipped.

 

Did you receive payment already?

 

 

I like to expect the best from people until they prove they are not worthy of my trust...but I've been burned twice in the past, so now it's pre-payment before shipping.

[Godlover]

He filed a claim with PayPal so now I have a negative balance. He paid before the item was shipped. In his claim he says the package was left on the street but I have a message where he said it was dropped over the fence. How does he even know it was stolen? It could have been left at the wrong address. It was delivered after 9 pm as I tracked the package myself. I really don't think he is out to scam me. I think He wants to recoup his money from me. If PayPal refunds his money I may be done with PayPal.

[dacheedah]

What should I do if a buyer files a claim or a chargeback for an item not received?

PayPal will place a temporary hold on the funds in question and send you an email requesting proof of delivery.

 

For payments of less than $250 USD (or its equivalent in another currency), you will need to provide proof of delivery that can be viewed online. For payments of $250 USD or more, you will need to provide a signature confirmation that can be viewed online.

 

Once we've received your proof of delivery, we will determine whether or not your transaction is eligible for coverage. If it is, we'll lift the temporary hold and restore your access to the funds as soon as possible. If it isn't, we'll return the funds to the buyer's account and you will be responsible for PayPal's chargeback fee, if applicable.

[k9cottage]

you are not responsible in my opinion if it goes missing in the mail you can prove you sent it and he says it was dropped over his fence i am afraid it is bad luck for him

[Flyinfool]

That is one of the reasons that I keep a near $0 PP balance and have it tied to a checking account that is also maintained near $0. There is nothing for PP to tie up if someone tries to scam me.

[Godlover]

whats the address? I want to take a look on google earth.

 

I always ship something sold with a delivery confirmation and insurance, if delivered that ends your responsibility and insurance covers the loss or damage while enroute not on site. Anything over like $100.00 or with low feedback I always want a signature on but in the end a buyer should know their neighborhood.

 

I would also call the police and the local UPS agent. 9PM seems odd to me, did he give you the link or did you go to ups's website and enter your own tracking number?

 

At my old house the UPS / fed ex guys knew me and dropped my small packages over the back fence onto my back door stoop.

 

2854 E. Raccoon Ct.

Inverness, FL 34452

[dacheedah]

http://venturerider.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=1240&pictureid=7955

Only fence I see is around the pool unless he has one at the road.

 

 

2854 E. Raccoon Ct.

Inverness, FL 34452

[dacheedah]

and here is the fence

 

[Huggy]

File a dispute with PayPal as the package was delivered. If there is a way of confirming that throught UPS send a copy of that also to PayPal. You are not at fault or responsible!!