Very strange engine behavior ......

[Snaggletooth]

Grab a cup of Joe guys. This one drags out a bit.

 

OK. Seen some odd stuff in the last few years with my '84 but this had me scratching my head. The only thought i could come up with was the motor may have actually been running backwards for a bit.

 

I stopped at a store out of town yesterday and when i got back to the bike i was standing next to the bike getting into my gear. Turned the key on and checked the volt meter as usual and had 12.9 showing as always. Hit the button and went about getting my gear on.

 

Now remember I'm deaf so Im not hearing anything. I knew the bike had started by the way the grip felt.

 

Got geared up and threw the leg over. Didn't feel right. Snapped the throttle and no response but feel the engine vibratation a little bit. Checked the tach and it wasn't showing the expected 900 or so. Actually it was only showing a rhythmic blip on the needle up go about 100 or so.

 

No throttle response. No change in the blip. No nothing. I could feel the motor "running" but oddly.

 

Hit the kill switch. Nothing changed. Turned off the key. Nothing changed. Checked the voltmeter and it was down to 12.4. Motor still turning with key and switch off. Popped the false cover and took a quick read with the multimeter and got same reading as voltmeter. Now down to 12.1.

 

 

Pulled the battery cable off and it kept running.

 

I finally had to drop it on gear and kill it off the clutch.

 

After killing the bike and hooking the cable back up i only showed 12 volts off meters. Let it sit for about a half hour while i checked connections and wires. I expected some increase in the volt reading as i would normally get off my AGM. Volts did not change.

 

I was able to start the bike normally after getting it back together. Fired right up even with the 11.8 volts on the voltmeter. When the motor started and came.up to 2,000 rpm i only got a 12.6 volt reading. Figured as i was 60 miles from my place I'd better head back and hope for the best.

 

During the next hour of highway speeds the charge reading slowly increased back to normal. 14.3. By the time i got home and shut the bike off the battery showed static at 13.01 . This morning the cold battery read as always at 12.9 again. Bike fired fight up and charge read at normal. 14.3.

 

So i can't explain it more than it like the motor was dieseling when it happened. But i can't explain the voltage drain...

 

Im open to thoughts on this on.

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[MiCarl]

It won't run backward, so you can rule that out.

 

You're in a tough spot if you can't hear it, or at least in a tough spot communicating about it. Best guess is electrical gremlin of some sort.

 

Or maybe you had to much caffeine and it wasn't running at all.

[bongobobny]

OK how about the starter motor or start switch was stuck? I'm betting that with the starter running continuously that it will run about 100RPM give or take. That would really make the battery run down!

 

 

No I can't explain why it still ran with the battery disconnected unless the stator was putting out enough to keep the starter running...

[Flyinfool]

If the stator could put out enough to keep the starter turning, and the battery disconnected, you just invented perpetual motion. You gonna make Bill Gates look like a pauper.

 

That was my first thought to that the bike never started and the starter switch was stuck so it was just cranking. But then you said you pulled a battery cable. That shot that idea all to he11.

 

Since you pulled the battery cable and it was still sort of running the only option left is that it was for some reason dieseling. Maybe on just one cylinder.

But that would not explain the battery draw. Unless you had a combination of things happening like a stuck starter and the dieseling, where the starter was helping the dieseling along.

Yes I am grasping at straws here.:confused24:

 

Pull the plugs to see if one cylinder has a lot of carbon buildup.

[Snaggletooth]

I've had problems with the start button in the past so its a habit to make sure its fully returned to all the way out. Even more so since IM doing so many miles now on lime rock and gravel roads these days. Dust out here sucks. The headlights were on right after starting IM sure as i was in front of the bike while gearing up and it was not light yet.

 

Ill give it a cleaning today anyway and i do have a spare complete control switch if it acts up again.

 

I had a starter stay engaged once in a catapillar engine. The results of that were catastrophic. The engage systems are very different so i wouldn't expect the same results.

 

Just really an odd event. Be keeping an eye on it.

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[Flyinfool]

It is also possible to be a stuck solenoid instead of the switch.

 

When my start clutch went out I had one occasion that it did not disengage, fortunately I could hear it so I never revved the engine and I shut it down before any other damage.

[Snaggletooth]

It is also possible to be a stuck solenoid instead of the switch..

 

Still..... positive cable was removed.

That should have shut it down.

 

And i had changed plugs about a month ago. Same as always. Nice tan on all four.

 

 

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[Flyinfool]

[k9cottage]

Grab a cup of Joe guys. This one drags out a bit.

 

OK. Seen some odd stuff in the last few years with my '84 but this had me scratching my head. The only thought i could come up with was the motor may have actually been running backwards for a bit.

 

I stopped at a store out of town yesterday and when i got back to the bike i was standing next to the bike getting into my gear. Turned the key on and checked the volt meter as usual and had 12.9 showing as always. Hit the button and went about getting my gear on.

 

Now remember I'm deaf so Im not hearing anything. I knew the bike had started by the way the grip felt.

 

Got geared up and threw the leg over. Didn't feel right. Snapped the throttle and no response but feel the engine vibratation a little bit. Checked the tach and it wasn't showing the expected 900 or so. Actually it was only showing a rhythmic blip on the needle up go about 100 or so.

 

No throttle response. No change in the blip. No nothing. I could feel the motor "running" but oddly.

 

Hit the kill switch. Nothing changed. Turned off the key. Nothing changed. Checked the voltmeter and it was down to 12.4. Motor still turning with key and switch off. Popped the false cover and took a quick read with the multimeter and got same reading as voltmeter. Now down to 12.1.

 

 

Pulled the battery cable off and it kept running.

 

I finally had to drop it on gear and kill it off the clutch.

 

After killing the bike and hooking the cable back up i only showed 12 volts off meters. Let it sit for about a half hour while i checked connections and wires. I expected some increase in the volt reading as i would normally get off my AGM. Volts did not change.

 

I was able to start the bike normally after getting it back together. Fired right up even with the 11.8 volts on the voltmeter. When the motor started and came.up to 2,000 rpm i only got a 12.6 volt reading. Figured as i was 60 miles from my place I'd better head back and hope for the best.

 

During the next hour of highway speeds the charge reading slowly increased back to normal. 14.3. By the time i got home and shut the bike off the battery showed static at 13.01 . This morning the cold battery read as always at 12.9 again. Bike fired fight up and charge read at normal. 14.3.

 

So i can't explain it more than it like the motor was dieseling when it happened. But i can't explain the voltage drain...

 

Im open to thoughts on this on.

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

 

 

and then i woke up in a ball of sweat thinking that was the worst nightmare i have ever had

[syscrusher]

I was waiting for you to say that you were feeling younger.... bike running backward....going back in time....charge decreasing.....

 

I wonder if the headlight is a clue. On my 1993 the headlight comes on when I turn on the key. It turns off when I crank and then turns on when the engine starts. It's HID and the on state is fully, it cycles the ballast to do the the high voltage discharge above breakover threshold to get the HID to plasma level. This is as opposed to the way my dual sport bike behaves as it lights the HID when the key is on but never interrupts and re-establishes the lighting circuit, it just can't supply enough current to the tube to keep it lit when you begin cranking. I then fire up the HID by flipping the switch to bright (halogen) and back.

 

So, I suspect that on my 1993, if I don't get the engine started the headlight doesn't relight either but I'm curious and I've rambled on quite a bit here so I guess I'd better check this detail tomorrow.

[Huggy]

I think he has hamsters in his tail pipe!

[Condor]

The only way a motor will run without spark is deseling. I'm thinking the motor was dieseling, and the rpm wasn't high enough to disingage the starter clutch. I don't know that much about the starter electrical having a disconnect, but it may be why it continued sucking the amps???

[MiCarl]

 

So, I suspect that on my 1993, if I don't get the engine started the headlight doesn't relight either but I'm curious and I've rambled on quite a bit here so I guess I'd better check this detail tomorrow.

 

The start button turns off the stock headlight circuit when pressed. When you release the button the headlight circuit is re-energized.

Edited October 4, 2013 by MiCarl

[syscrusher]

The start button turns off the stock headlight circuit when pressed. When you release the button the headlight circuit is re-energized.

 

That would be the simplest way to implement, wouldn't it?

I wonder why my DR650 isn't doing that.

[Snaggletooth]

The only way a motor will run without spark is deseling. I'm thinking the motor was dieseling, and the rpm wasn't high enough to disingage the starter clutch. I don't know that much about the starter electrical having a disconnect, but it may be why it continued sucking the amps???

 

That's where i don't get the possibility of the drain on the system. If the switch had fully retracted back to correct position allowing the headlight to come back on, which it did, where would the drain occur?

 

OK. Other than the engine dieseling at very low rpm and the headlight was the only drain.

 

Having Danos engage mod IM having trouble picturing it NOT disengaging.

 

The bike seemed fine today. Had a full charge at startup and went to 14.3 as soon as it got to 2,000 rpm as always. Ran like it always does.

 

Just one of those weird things i guess.

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[Dbeck]

I had something like this happen to me. Replaced starter cables and forgot to put the rubber caps on the connection at the starter relay switch, it was hitting metal and kept the starter engaged. Acted just like what happened to your 84.