Automotive vs Motorcycle oil testing

[Sexagenarian]

not sure if this is the correct part of the forum for this sort of posting but here goes..

 

I thought the following article was a good read, even though they do not mention wet clutch characteristics: Automotive vs Motorcycle oils

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I think that article is a bit dated...judging from the prices of the oil....and the material presented seems familiar...

 

Everyone has to make their own decision...but in my opinion, for what its worth, I will pay a bit more to put motorcycle oil in a motorcycle that has a unit construction (transmission and engine share the same oil), or if the bike has a wet clutch. Transmission gear shear is tough on motor oil, and wet clutches dont like certain automotive additives in standard oil.

 

If the bike has neither, it is more like an automobile in many ways, as far as the oil is concerned.

 

So I run motorcycle type oil in my Venture, and I run automotive type oils in my Ural, which for those who dont know, is a sidecar motorcycle with a separate transmission oil section, and a dry clutch.

 

I am also not a fan of synthetics: the short drain intervals we have, and the limited success I have had with synthetics, and the fact that I wont be riding my bikes for a million miles in stop and go traffic and then measure the wear on the internal parts, and of course, standard dino oil has worked so well for 100 years and its what the engines were designed to use.

 

Of course, you pays yer money, and you takes yer chances...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2013 by tx2sturgis

[Flyinfool]

Not all bikes have clutch issues with automotive oils. But it is a well document issue with our clutches. If you search clutch issues on this site, you will fund a number of cases where someone was saving money using auto oil and experienced clutch slipping, changed back to MC oil made for a wet clutch and problem went away.

 

The article does not address this issue.

The article does say that the tests were done on a V65 Magna, it is possible that its clutch system can tolerate the auto oil.

[Huggy]

Yamaha motorcycle wet clutch's do not like auto oil at all! Can't use it in the XJ's or Seaca's from the 80's either! The clutch will start to slip if you use it! Just the way it is!

 

[slowrollwv]

Well I am not a scientist but I have run Mobil 1 T4 in my Venture for 75,000 miles and haven't had a lick of trouble. So I will stick with it.

[WildBill1]

Not all bikes have clutch issues with automotive oils. But it is a well document issue with our clutches. If you search clutch issues on this site, you will fund a number of cases where someone was saving money using auto oil and experienced clutch slipping, changed back to MC oil made for a wet clutch and problem went away.

 

The article does not address this issue.

The article does say that the tests were done on a V65 Magna, it is possible that its clutch system can tolerate the auto oil.

 

Amen Brother......

[2WHEELSFORME]

Over 80K with only automotive type oil so not sure why someone would say these bikes have trouble with that type oil.

[Venturous Randy]

Yamaha motorcycle wet clutch's do not like auto oil at all! Can't use it in the XJ's or Seaca's from the 80's either! The clutch will start to slip if you use it! Just the way it is!

 

 

I have almost always used Automotive oil, Valvoline 10 40, and for a while now used oil designed for a diesel engine, Rotella T 15 40. My bike has 164,000 miles on it and still does not use any oil. The only engine related failure was the thrush washer wear causing the 2nd gear problem and I doubt motorcycle specific oil would have helped, as I am confident that many other Venture and V-Max engines had the same problem with only running Yamalube.

I did experience clutch slippage at one time and replaced the six springs and that went away. Now, this is on a bike that has also pulled a 450 pound camper all around these mountains and also a bike that has NOT been babied. I can not imagine how many times it has exceeded 8,000 RPM's. Right now. if I crank it on and hit 2nd gear hard, the front wheel will definitely come up.

So, given my experience on this bike for the last 17+ years, my Yamaha seems to do just fine with automotive oil.

RandyA

Edited September 14, 2013 by Venturous Randy

[Huggy]

As Flyinfool says Yamaha clutches are pron to slip using automotive oil its a fact. Auto oils have anti wear additives that promote slippage that is an petroleum industry fact. That is why oils for use in engines using wet clutches are formulated differently another fact. If you do not experience slippage you are extremely lucky. If it works for you then keep using auto oil.

But personally I do not believe in tempting fate. For the few extra dollars I pay for my oil its worth the peace of mind I get. After all the work and money I put into my bikes why would I cheap out on the one most important thing my bike needs to run! Oh yes some diesel oils are formulated with out the anti wear additives and can be used in there place.

 

[2WHEELSFORME]

From the article of the OP:

 

"Most of this fear comes from very successful marketing campaigns mounted by the manufacturers and distributors of motorcycle-specific lubricants".

 

Spend you money the way it makes you feel good but don't say it is a "HAVE TOO"

 

The original Yamaha clutch is not a great clutch, the same is true for my VTX. Both were replaced years ago with a much better aftermarket clutch that is not affected by automotive oil.

[Huggy]

The additives affect the clutch plates they depend on friction to work just like the brake pads do. Grease up your clutch plates and see how well they work. Additives in the oil works the same way they are anti-friction. Also the argument that its a marketing strategy by the motorcycle oil manufactures doesn't fly. The oil is made by the same companies for both motorcycles and autos.

Its the motorcycle manufactures that design the clutches and determines the materials that they use to make them and that determines what oil is usable with them. Has absolutely nothing to do with the oil companies. If it was alright to use regular oil the motorcycle manufactures would say so.

 

[Barrycuda]

My last oil change about 2k ago I officially switched to Mobil 1 10/30 synthetic and it decreased my clutch whine. I immediately took the bike straight to Vogel . I have yet to see or feel any issues. If anyone uses this please let me/ us know your thoughts and experience. As of now it feels fine.

Barry

[Flyinfool]

Well I am not a scientist but I have run Mobil 1 T4 in my Venture for 75,000 miles and haven't had a lick of trouble. So I will stick with it.

The Mobile 1 T4 is specifically made for motorcycles with a wet clutch so it should be fine.

 

I am sure that there are some auto oils that will work fine with the Yamaha clutch, but not all auto oils.

On the other hand, all motorcycle oils made for use with a wet clutch will work with the Yamaha clutch.

[2WHEELSFORME]

You will find less controversy asking a question about gun rights or abortion. Do your own research, I have with close to 200k on four bikes and always using automotive oil. Here is one persons opinion, of course you can find whatever you wish to hear on the internet. The only thing I say is; automotive will not always ruin your clutch at least it has not in mine. This guy is opinionated:

AUTOMOTIVE OIL VS. MOTORCYCLE OIL

We come to the issue of whether to use a motorcycle specific oil or not. You'll hear varying opinions on this.

I'm going to lay out the facts for you, and you can decide what to do with them.

Speak with just about any motorcycle manufacturer rep or dealer and you'll hear the following rhetoric:

Don't use any oil that has an API rating higher than SG. Some will even go so far as to say no higher

than SF.

In case you don't know what those letters mean, the American Petroleum Institute (API) comes out with

new standards for motor oils every few years. Each time they come out with a new standard, the bar is

raised. Fuel efficiency must be better, protection benefits must be increased, cold temperature

performance must be improved, etc.

So, the higher the second letter of the "code" the "better" the oil. In other words, you should expect an

SH oil to be better than an SG oil, and an SJ oil is better than an SH oil, etc. As a side note, gasoline

oils are always rated as an Sx, with the "x" being the level of the rating. Diesel oils are always rated

with a Cx. Sometimes there will even be a number after the Cx, such as with a diesel CG-4 or CH-4

specification. Again, the higher the second letter, the better the oil. An oil that meets both the API

gasoline specs and the diesel specs will likely carry both API ratings.

Motorcycle manufacturers have come up with a very clever way to avoid meeting the newer and more

stringent API standards while still selling their oils as premium "motorcycle-specific" lubricants. Most

motorcycle-specific oils haven't been tested for the latest API standards in the past decade or so. They

are still rated SF or SG, which, according to motorcycle manufacturers and dealers is better for your

bike. Many times they'll even go so far as to say that they'll void your warranty if you use an oil that is

SH or SJ rated.

That makes it easy to scare you into thinking you need their oil because you don't feel like you have

much choice. As a result, motorcycle manufacturers have been able to charge many motorcyclists

$3.00 to $5.00 per quart or more for old, outdated petroleum motor oil formulations that would sell for

about 50 cents in an auto parts store.

Do you think they're making a killing on these products? Do you think they're going to shoot straight

with you if they can keep raking in the loot? I think we know the answer to those questions.

Just to set the record straight, they can't legally void your warranty for using an SH or SJ rated oil

unless they can prove that use of such oils actually caused the mechanical failure in question. That's

not to say they might not try, but if you stick to your guns, they really don't have a leg to stand on. They

don't have any way of knowing that you used such oils anyway.

If you want to see the legislation that outlines these warranty coverage issues, head on over to Chapter

13 and read the section titled "New Car Warranties and Extended Drains". Or, simply click here.

The truth is that many automotive oils are actually better for your bike than some motorcycle-specific

oils. Let's take a look at some of the flaws in their arguments and see if we can't wade through the

mumbo-jumbo.

[IronMike]

Well Amsoil always does just a bit better than Mobile One. Either one is fine for me and I would run it 8K miles.

 

But you can get lucky and run some real water and get away with it, its proven.

I don't think much is worse than Yamalube in independent lab test results. So if it will run on that, it will run on anything.

[MiCarl]

I do believe that oils with the Energy Conserving label MAY be a problem for SOME clutches.

 

Most modern motorcycles specify an API SG classification.

 

Until well into the 90s motorcycle manufacturers were specifying an SE or SF classification.

 

My 1982 XJ 650 wanted an SE classification. It went many happy miles on Accel brand 10W40 SF oil from Wal*Mart. I use it for all the motorcycles through my shop that call for an SF or lower classification. It isn't always available. Last I bought was $2.57/quart.

 

Newer motorcycles get Maxima 10W40 SG motorcycle oil. Mostly because I don't want someone claiming I damaged their motorcycle using an SJ car oil. It costs about $27/gallon.

 

My 89 Venture and my wife's 83 750 Shadow both get SuperTECH universal 15W40. $10.57/gallon at Wal*Mart.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

This is what you call an 'oil thread'...and its like arguing about Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge.

 

Everyone has an opinion.

[dacheedah]

Popcorn and a comfey chair:97:

[Huggy]

Like I say if you stick to the manufacture's suggested grade and type of oil how can you go wrong? Proof is in the pudding as they say. No one who uses the manufacture's suggested grade and type of oil has ever complained of slipping due to oil. BUT I have heard from many how having switched from auto to motorcycle oil say that their slippage problem has stopped. Just food for thought.

 

[sandman]

I would like to see a publication date on the article. I use the cheapest oil wallyworld sells. Delco fleet 15 40 used to use rotella 15/40 till added friction modifiers. I can see where castrol gtx would show good, because their gtx oil would turn to water after 1000mi just a few yrs ago. It needed improvement. I guess I will get more popcorn, please continue!!!

[Prairiehammer]

I would like to see a publication date on the article.

 

August 1998

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/articles/1998%20AI.pdf

[MikeWa]

Are are are they trying to say that motorcycle oil advertising may be misleading? Well are they? I just can't believe it.

 

Mike

[Kirby]

I've been using Mobil 1 15w-50 Fully Synthetic in both my Vmax and my RSV for the last 7 years with no problems to speak of. My friend uses it in his GW. Together between his GW and my 2 bikes we have over 150,000 miles using this oil and still going strong. The biggest thing you have to be concerned about IMHO is not using any type of oil with friction modifiers in it that with make the clutch slip. To each his own.

[Snarley Bill]

for all the oil experts out there here are a few oil facts. 1) most all synthetic oil is now petroleum base, made with group 111 base oil 2) motorcycle specific oil has a jaso rating for wet clutches, which is expensive to obtain so alot of oil companies don't mess with it cuz of the small market. 3) moly is the antifriction culprit that is said to cause clutch slippage, not zddp. 4) synthetic oil is more shear stable because it requires fewer polymers to stabilize viscosity, so it is superior for gear lubrication. polymers have a tendency to shear. what did we run before there were motorcycle specific oils. i've had alot of motorcycles including dragbikes, motocrossers, hill climbers , crotch rockets, etc. and have never had a clutch related problem using petoleum base automotive oil. some bikes for the street just don't have the best clutches cuz they're not designed for abuse. clutch springs do weaken with age. and a little moly may push it over the edge, and cause slippage. shell rotella 5w-40 t6 has gotten the jasso approval, because so many bikers are using it. delvac is another good bike oil. don't get hung on the motorcycle specific hype. do some research. check out www.bobistheoilguy.com . theres some real oil gurus hanging around there with tons of expertise about oil. you may find better oil for less money at walmart.