My fork seal seems unrepairable -Help!

[syscrusher]

I changed the seal out again and it leaks again. This is twice in a month. Still have been unable to get a decent repair on left side. I went over the fork tube pretty carefully looking for nicks and found nothing. When I installed the seal I tried to pressurize it before even using it and it leaked air, but could hold up to 4 or 5psi. I can see the oil being pushed out of the seal on the rear if I inflate the forks and then watch it.

 

I examined the seal that I just removed carefully and I can find no nicks or flaws in it. It all seems almost like the seal is just a hair too small to fit the fork properly. I don't like the shape of the seal because it looks like there is going to be too little rubber in contact on it but maybe it deforms and grips tighter that it looks. I'm looking for other reasons for this and the washer under the seal did not want to bottom in the top recess of the fork slider, making me think maybe it was in wrong.

 

A member called 5bikes once posted something about installing two seals that were superglued together and I do know that a GW model has two seals to fix a problem. I was considering removing that conical washer and trying to get two seals under the circlip.

 

Present strategy is that I have Lucas power steering stopleak in there, hoping to swell the seal that is in it.

 

After twice I just don't want to try again without a better plan. It's a definition of insanity to continue doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I don't really know what to do here - HELP!

[Venturous Randy]

When you are replacing the seal, are you covering the groove where the ring clip goes with tape? I use scotch tape to keep the sharp edge on the ring groove from damaging the wiping edge of the seal.

Is your seal leaking on the area wiping tube or on the outside of the seal? Are you using Yamaha seals or after market?

RandyA

[Max]

syscrusher, I've been following your threads as I'm currently changing out 4 seals on my 2 87's when I get the replacement OEM parts.

In the interm I came across an article where someone suggested taking a nylon stocking and fanning it around the inner tube to snag any potential burrs that might be hard to detect by eye.

 

"the washer under the seal did not want to bottom in the top recess of the fork slider, making me think maybe it was in wrong.".... looking at my fork assembly, that washer should bottom out flush into the recess of the fork slider snug, but without binding.

hope this helps.

[uncledj]

You're not putting them in upside down are you...???

Most seals are directional.

I'm certainly no guru on the subject, but when I replaced them on my 87, once I got the right seals, it was a pretty cut and dried install, with no issues, and I do have a small nick in one of the tubes, but it hasn't been a problem.

Hope ya get it resolved.

 

 

[syscrusher]

When you are replacing the seal, are you covering the groove where the ring clip goes with tape? I use scotch tape to keep the sharp edge on the ring groove from damaging the wiping edge of the seal.

Is your seal leaking on the area wiping tube or on the outside of the seal? Are you using Yamaha seals or after market?

RandyA

 

Used nitrile glove with cuff sheared off. Wiping tube. Yamaha from Boats.net.

[syscrusher]

I tried using a one of the thin nylon mens dress sock to detect burrs since it didn't have hose to try and snagged nothing. I've also had my hands all over those tubes and never felt anything but small grit which I wiped off. The seal is in right side up.

 

The thing I am thinking is maybe the upper bushing is too low in the slider, causing the slider to sort of lean back on the upper tube, opening the seal more to the rear and compressing it more in the front? The upper bushing is fully free to find it's own level in the lower slider though, I think. I mean this should be a common problem if it's really what is happening with mine. I know on the GW that has two seals around 2002, it is the left fork that had the problem, but that isn't pertinent here.

 

"The 2002-2005 FLHT/FLT models are equipped with a

damper-rod type fork on right side and a cartridge fork on

the left side."

 

So there are numerous examples of differing technologies on either side of the fork including no fork on one side like BMW has. The thing that really bugs me is that CLASS is working on the bike but I can't pump up my forks.

[gscbertrand]

I have had some success using some axle grease in the back side of the seal. I try to pack it full and this seems to help tighten the seal against the tube. It has worked for me on several fork sets that I have had some trouble with. Hope you find a solution soon.

[syscrusher]

Thanks!

 

It did also occur to me that the seal came just in a plastic bag that was closed by folding the plastic over and stapling it. When I 've bought seals before they were in a sealed pouch like a condom is. I would not use a condom that came packaged like the seal was. Could it have been somewhat dried out or is this how Yamaha provides fork seals?

[Pegasus1300]

The times that I have had seals leak in a short time after replacement I have replaced the the two bushings at the bottom of the forks. That has usually fixed the problem.If you have already done that try taking the spring off the seal and cutting one coil from the spring then put it back on.Yeah I know sounds weird but it does work.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Sync,

Even though we have agreed to disagree, I hate to see a fellow First Gen. owner struggle with a project, so here is my 2 cents worth. Paul has hit the nail on the head with this seal issue. The guide bushings are worn, and they are allowing the fork tube to move slightly laterally. This movement is opening the seal lip, and allowing the fork oil, (and air from the CLASS System to escape) Replacement of the upper guide bushings as well as a new seal should take care of the problem. Unless this bike has taken a side ward "hit" to the front tire, rim, front fork area, (like bumping a curb on one side, a major pot hole, etc) If the guide bushings on the one fork tube are worn, the guide bushings on the other fork tube are not too far behind. I personally like to repair things ONE TIME, and get on with the riding part. I suggest that you replace the guide bushings on BOTH fork tubes, install new seals, and this should be the end of this issue. I wish you the best of luck with this repair project, Sync. Anyone that goes to the trouble to keep a First Gen. on the road is OK in my book!

Earl

[MiCarl]

Hey Sync,

Even though we have agreed to disagree, I hate to see a fellow First Gen. owner struggle with a project, so here is my 2 cents worth. Paul has hit the nail on the head with this seal issue. The guide bushings are worn, and they are allowing the fork tube to move slightly laterally. This movement is opening the seal lip, and allowing the fork oil, (and air from the CLASS System to escape) Replacement of the upper guide bushings as well as a new seal should take care of the problem. Unless this bike has taken a side ward "hit" to the front tire, rim, front fork area, (like bumping a curb on one side, a major pot hole, etc) If the guide bushings on the one fork tube are worn, the guide bushings on the other fork tube are not too far behind. I personally like to repair things ONE TIME, and get on with the riding part. I suggest that you replace the guide bushings on BOTH fork tubes, install new seals, and this should be the end of this issue. I wish you the best of luck with this repair project, Sync. Anyone that goes to the trouble to keep a First Gen. on the road is OK in my book!

Earl

 

Why didn't I think of that? Probably because I replace bushings and seals every time I disassemble a fork so I don't even think about it any more.

 

The bushings keep the tubes centered and parallel. If they're worn the tubes won't align properly, the seal will be distorted and will wear fast.

[syscrusher]

Thanks to all for their suggestions. Parts have been ordered, we will see.

[Bill W.]

Time to do the same to my forks, blew another seal today. Looking at a parts listing, the upper and lower bushings aren't called that. What's the Yamaha name for these bushings?

[syscrusher]

Time to do the same to my forks, blew another seal today. Looking at a parts listing, the upper and lower bushings aren't called that. What's the Yamaha name for these bushings?

 

Upper Bushing = Metal, Slide 1

Lower Bushing = Piston, front fork

 

These are what I ordered, but I may be confused about the "piston" one. I doubt it though.

[Bill W.]

Thanks. Did you try Dillon Bros, or did you go straight to online ordering?

[Snaggletooth]

Bill. If you need the seals i have a new set sitting here i can sell you. PM if you want them. Mike

 

From my Droid wherever I may happen to be at any given moment.

[syscrusher]

Dillon would have ordered them and marked it up so, no, I went straight to online.

 

I don't know what bikes Dillon stocks parts for, but none of mine, ever.

 

The only advantage they could offer, having something in stock, never pans out so I don't waste my time.

[syscrusher]

Upper Bushing = Metal, Slide 1

Lower Bushing = Piston, front fork

 

These are what I ordered, but I may be confused about the "piston" one. I doubt it though.

 

Got these parts today. The designators given above are correct.

[Adavidson56304]

Just put a new front tire on and noticed a little oil on one fork, pulled up the boot and it was full of oil, so I'll be replacing my seals now. I want to have all needed parts in order before I start.

 

I need the oil seals, and upper and lower bushings?

Anything else that should be done?

Where's a good(cheap) place to order them from?

 

Thanks all and good luck on your projects

Aaron

[frankd]

You also need dust seals, shown as #8 on the parts fische.

 

Your profile shows you have a 87 Venture, but then you talk about boots? 87 Ventures didn't have boots from the factory, however 90?-93's did. I just looked on the 92 parts fische, and they don't seem to use the dust seals. I guess they rely on the boots to keep things clean.

 

Frank D.

[syscrusher]

You also need dust seals, shown as #8 on the parts fische.

 

Your profile shows you have a 87 Venture, but then you talk about boots? 87 Ventures didn't have boots from the factory, however 90?-93's did. I just looked on the 92 parts fische, and they don't seem to use the dust seals. I guess they rely on the boots to keep things clean.

 

Frank D.

 

Which kinda sucks since it makes it difficult to use a good fork brace. On the pre-1990 Ventures, what holds the dust seal into the slider tube crown? My 1993 slider has a groove around the outside of the crown to hold a boot in place but nothing apparent inside the crown for a dust seal option.

[MiCarl]

Which kinda sucks since it makes it difficult to use a good fork brace. On the pre-1990 Ventures, what holds the dust seal into the slider tube crown? My 1993 slider has a groove around the outside of the crown to hold a boot in place but nothing apparent inside the crown for a dust seal option.

 

Been awhile since I had mine off, but I think it's just a friction fit.

[frankd]

Yes, it's only a friction fit for the dust seal.

[syscrusher]

So I can get the dust seals and put them on my 1993.

I may just do that I guess.

 

Thanks Frank and Carl!

Edited September 25, 2013 by syscrusher
thanks

[syscrusher]

I need the oil seals, and upper and lower bushings?

Anything else that should be done?

Where's a good(cheap) place to order them from?

 

Thanks all and good luck on your projects

Aaron

 

Noticed no one gave you a recommendation yet. Boats.net has been my fav so far.