Clutch problem 1986 Venture Royal

[Royal MN]

I have bleed the clutch and it worked fine for 2 weeks and then on my way into work today

it went limp. I checked the reservoir and it was almost empty. I am pretty sure the slave needs to be rebuilt, and was wondering how diffucult this is and how do you get to it?

 

Thanks

[mbrood]

Behind the middle gear cover (at the left footpeg) and highly recessesd is the clutch slave. The bottom most bolt of the case cover goes through into the engine case and thus has a copper crush washer for a proper seal, when the cover comes off, oil will seep out, so this bolt should be replaced in the case to stop that mess, no washer and no torgue, just an oil plug bolt. Often the kickstand switch is unbolted and the harness of it and the alternator/pickup coils bent out to make room for removing the slave. It's a Japanese twister joke of removal and replacement... it doesn't slide out... it has to be pulled back, a little twist, pull a little, twist... etc. Having the middle gear gasket and the clutch slave repair seal kit handy would be advised. Long metric allens will be needed to extract the two bolts and a rebuild kit... paying particular attention for corrosion damage on the piston and sleeve when the seals are replaced. Many opt for a simpler replacement of the whole slave. Now is a dandy time to also check for oil seepage from the fabric coated alternator and pickup coil wiring coming out the left engine cover as well as any leaks around the gear selector switch.

 

With both the middle gear cover and left engine cover removed, you can see the recessed clutch slave directly below the balbearing on the 4" socket extension, as well as the middle gear cover bolt holding back drips.

 

http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/starter-rotor.jpg.

[cimmer]

If you need some help with it, let me know as I have rebuilt mine a few years ago. I just live in Bloomington and have some time I can assist you.

 

Rick F.

[bikenut]

If no oil is going on the ground make sure you change your oil asap. If the inner seal that the rod to the slave goes in is bad the oil can get in you engine oil.

Just a thought

[Venturous Randy]

If no oil is going on the ground make sure you change your oil asap. If the inner seal that the rod to the slave goes in is bad the oil can get in you engine oil.

Just a thought

 

How can you get brake fluid from the slave into the engine?

RandyA

[Condor]

How can you get brake fluid from the slave into the engine?

RandyA

 

Leaks past the slave piston seal and enters the engine thru the push rod channel.

[Venturous Randy]

Leaks past the slave piston seal and enters the engine thru the push rod channel.

 

If brake fluid will leak into the engine, you would know it by all the oil leaking out of the engine. Not sure what you mean by "push rod channel".

RandyA

[Condor]

If brake fluid will leak into the engine, you would know it by all the oil leaking out of the engine. Not sure what you mean by "push rod channel".

RandyA

 

Maybe you call it something else, but that's the best description I could come up with. The slave is physically linked to the clutch basket by a pair of push rods, one short..one long, with a steel ball between them. This passes thru the engine from one side to the other in a "push rod channel".... Perhaps tube would have been a better term?? It's possible for DOT3 to leak past a bad slave piston seal and also leak past the tube seal that the rods pass thru. I thought you must have, but have you ever rebuilt a complete clutch system???

[Venturous Randy]

Maybe you call it something else, but that's the best description I could come up with. The slave is physically linked to the clutch basket by a pair of push rods, one short..one long, with a steel ball between them. This passes thru the engine from one side to the other in a "push rod channel".... Perhaps tube would have been a better term?? It's possible for DOT3 to leak past a bad slave piston seal and also leak past the tube seal that the rods pass thru. I thought you must have, but have you ever rebuilt a complete clutch system???

 

Yes, I have had several complete clutch systems apart and that is why I questioned getting brake fluid into the engine oil. Not to say it is not possible, but to me the likelihood of getting leaking brake fluid past the clutch rod seal seems highly unlikely unless there is virtually no sealing of the clutch rod seal. And, in this case, the amount of oil coming out of the engine would probably prevent or wash away the brake fluid from getting in the engine anyway.

Sorry, just cannot see getting brake fluid into the engine, but I've been known to be wrong before, just ask my ex.

RandyA

[Condor]

Yes, I have had several complete clutch systems apart and that is why I questioned getting brake fluid into the engine oil. Not to say it is not possible, but to me the likelihood of getting leaking brake fluid past the clutch rod seal seems highly unlikely unless there is virtually no sealing of the clutch rod seal. And, in this case, the amount of oil coming out of the engine would probably prevent or wash away the brake fluid from getting in the engine anyway.

Sorry, just cannot see getting brake fluid into the engine, but I've been known to be wrong before, just ask my ex.

RandyA

 

OK Randy, I'm all ears. Where's the DOT3 going??? Remember according to the owner there's no external evidence of leakage anywhere.... Also take into account that the bike is going on 30 years old. Seals don't last forever. Engine heat, and wear will take their toll...

[Venturous Randy]

OK Randy, I'm all ears. Where's the DOT3 going??? Remember according to the owner there's no external evidence of leakage anywhere.... Also take into account that the bike is going on 30 years old. Seals don't last forever. Engine heat, and wear will take their toll...

 

 

Not sure where it is going, but highly suspect where it is not going. It does not take much of a leak to empty the clutch master cylinder and from the master cylinder through two hoses and a metal line there are several places to leak, especially the hose going from the metal line to the slave.

Also, unless I missed something, I did not see where he stated that he did not have any visible leaks or smoke coming off the collector. He just suspected it was leaking and wondered how difficult it was to remove the slave and he has not made another post since. All the speculation was done after the original post and he has not been on here in over a week.

OK, your turn.

RandyA

Edited September 13, 2013 by Venturous Randy

[Jayceesfolly]

My clutch slave was leaking on my 89 VR and it dripped on the exhaust collector and burned away. The only time that I saw the leak was when the bike cooled off and then it would drip on the floor. I bought a new slave unit rather than rebuild it. No problem since.

 

 

Jim

[Condor]

Not sure where it is going, but highly suspect where it is not going. It does not take much of a leak to empty the clutch master cylinder and from the master cylinder through two hoses and a metal line there are several places to leak, especially the hose going from the metal line to the slave.

Also, unless I missed something, I did not see where he stated that he did not have any visible leaks or smoke coming off the collector. He just suspected it was leaking and wondered how difficult it was to remove the slave and he has not made another post since. All the speculation was done after the original post and he has not been on here in over a week.

OK, your turn.

RandyA

 

Randy, I responded to your post #5 where you asked how cluch fluid could get in the engine oil? I responded with a possible way. Maybe I should have just ignored your question rather than get into a lengthy debate.....

[Venturous Randy]

Randy, I responded to your post #5 where you asked how cluch fluid could get in the engine oil? I responded with a possible way. Maybe I should have just ignored your question rather than get into a lengthy debate.....

 

 

Gee, I enjoyed the debate and thought it enlightening, Debates can be fun and interesting and I enjoyed our lengthy debate......

RandyA

[Peder_y2k]

Adding to the debate, it is not possible for the clutch fluid to transfer into the engine at the engine mounting. The clutch slave cylinder casting has stand off mount flanges creating a small gap between the cylinder assembly and the engine case. Any fluid loss would exit through this gap. This includes engine oil passing a failed push rod seal.

-Pete, in Tacoma WA USA

[Huggy]

Well I just rebuilt my clutch slave a little while ago. I noticed that there was a lot of oil on the side of the engine in this area. In fact you could see that from the amount of dirt and oil there was that this leak had been there for quite some time. And when I started the bike there was a slow drip under the bike. Pulled the slave re built it cleaned up the mess as best I could. Changed the seal on the shift shaft. That was the end of the leak. Engine oil was leaking out through the shaft seal.

 

[Waveracer200]

Hello, I recently had an issue when my motorcycle was driven for a while(and the motor got hot) that my clutch got soft on me. I eventually found out that it was leaking and letting air into my hoses for the clutch. I figured out where it was leaking from and saw it bubbling out of a bolt at the top. The rubber seal(or o-ring) seems to have dry rotted and now lets the brake/clutch fluid out but only when it gets hot.The clutch is never soft when the motor is cool. I can't find anywhere in the diagrams or online what the name of the bolt is and what it is used for. It seems it is also holding some sort of small cover to protect the engine long with keeping the brake fluid in the bike. Attached is a picture. I am hoping someone can help me with this as I have looked ever where or this. I cant get the exact names of the two cycle like covers. I found one place where someone calls it the starter clutch cover and here saying it is the middle gear cover and the parts diagram calling it the chain case. I am getting confused. In the picture, I put an arrow a one of the two top bolts the other one is not leaking but I am sure it will. You can also somewhat see where the brake fluid leaks out of it. It does not seem to be leaking out of the actual cover in the front below the bolt. I am hoping someone can help me with this answer as soon as they can so I can use this bike again to get to work and save money on gas.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Waveracer200

[Marcarl]

Hi and Welcome

The cover you have in the picture is not the clutch cover, that is on the right side, so the other side. What you have pictured is the 'stator\starter clutch' cover. The smaller cover to the rear is the middle gear cover and at the bottom of that cover, in the center is the 'leaky' bolt that is usually referred to. The bolt you have indicated does not normally have a leaking issue. I would look a bit higher to see if the leak is from a valve cover gasket, that would be more common. The bolt in question I believe holds the engine case halves together and might leak if not tight enough.No harm to take it out and check to make sure all is well under it.

A no clutch issue when hot indicates air in the clutch line and it's not all that easy to get rid of. Reverse bleeding can often help with that, but first bleed it normally to make sure you have all fresh fluid in the system and got as much dirt out as possible.

[Condor]

Carl, I'm thinking that maybe the crank is over full, or excessive crank pressure might be the cause of oil coming out from around that screw... beside it being loose as you already mentioned. I would think from the pics of that bike it probably has a few more issues that just the leak...??

[Flyinfool]

The bolt that you are pointing to has nothing to do with break/clutch fluid

The slave cylinder is behind that bottom most point of the side panel.

If you have something bubbling out of the bolt that the arrow points to, it would have to be engine oil.

 

As mentioned it sounds like you have several unrelated issues with the bike.

 

Old fluid will give a spongy brake or clutch and it will get worse with heat. Pop the cover off of the clutch master, the fluid should be water clear, If it is not then do a flush of the system. Just keep bleeding it until the fluid coming out of the bleeder is water clear. Make sure that you do not run the master dry in the process. If you do get air into the system it can be hard to get out. This goes for the brakes also, if the fluid is not clear change it out.

 

Use sheets of plastic and some towels to cover the bike, the tiniest spec of brake fluid will eat a big hole right thru the paint and or plastic parts of the bike.

 

As for the oil by that bolt, there is some other issue causing that leak.

[7 lakes]

Not to add to your misery, but you need to service the internals in the clutch hydraulics and probably the brakes too, from the look of your photo. The condition of the internal surfaces and wear parts of the clutch and brake are going to be just as bad as the fluid was. Draining nasty old fluid and filling with clean new fluid will be a temporary help at best.