Kill Two, Pay $65

[Hagmaster]

Just read that at least 60% of people 16-26 years old text message while driving. How many of those so called "I didn't see him officer because I was texting" negligent drivers will actually be charge with reckless driving?

Lets face it when we ride it's a crap shoot.

[Guest KitCarson]

All you can do is to learn to multi-task yourself. Learn to be totally observant and use your radar every time you get on your bike.......seems to me cars run into cars more and or just as much as they run into bikes. Lot of people in the world now, a lot going on, as for myself, I just never become complacent, take a little extra time at the intersection.......look all directions....then look again.

When I grew up an accident was an accident......accidents have some terrible consequences sometimes......but still they are just accidents.

I am 53 years old.......six years in the military........all the things people have said in this thread......I have done.....yep I have discharged a fire arm by accident, I have looked and pulled out in front of a bike myself, I have ran a stop light myself and halfway through........Kit you idiot geez!!! We all do stupid things sometimes.......anyone who says they have not is full of it.

I think accidents should just be that.......we are all human.......one may get me one day.....but I really would not want to ruin another persons life over an accident......I learned to leave revenge behind a long, long time ago.

[Venturous Randy]

I may get killed the next time I throw my leg over the bike and take off doing what I love to do.

What I do to help me get back home it to TRY to drive as defensively as I can. I continuously run the strobe in my headlight. I also have strobes in the back of my bike when I use my brakes. I have very loud air horns and ride with the thumb on the button. I consciously try to stay out of other peoples blind spots. I try to avoid those people that are obviously poor drivers, like those that tailgate and cut thru traffic, especially those in the "tuner" type Honda's and such. I also try to pay particular attention to those about ready to pull into traffic and don't hesitate to hit the air horns if they appear to be moving into my way. I also pay attention to which track of the lane I am in, such as going around a right hand limited visibility curve in the outer lane where I may be seen quicker than being in the inside of the curve

And, above all, I try my best to continuously pretend I am invisible.

Do this and have very loud air horns and do not hesitate to use them and it does help, at least so far.

That all being said, yes, I feel we all should be held accountable when causing a crash and I believe there is no such thing as an accident.

RandyA

[Snarley Bill]

There is a reason situations like most of those mentioned are called ACCIDENTS!. There was no intent to harm by their action, there was no deliberate or gross negligence.

 

We all have caused things bad to happen that we didn't intend on happening, but they did. We committed the error on ACCIDENT!

 

If there is CRIMINAL violation that causes the bad thing to happen then the penalty should be stiffer. Most traffic violations are infractions (depending on the state), not a misdemeanor or felony (i.e. speeding, failure to yield).

 

So what needs to happen is for folks to take a breath and put the lynching ropes away and look at the situation without the emotion. I don't see people wanting to prosecute everyone that hits a pedestrian or does something that is deemed and ACCIDENT!

 

We chose to ride a motorcycle knowing the dangers and the risks, just as we do in allot of other things in life. While we do what we can to avoid the other guy, sometimes S*H*I*T* happens.

 

We don't look to hang other motorcyclists that are found a fault in an accident. We all drive a car too and we can make a mistake and cause and ACCIDENT!

 

I think the fines would be the same if it was another vehicle involved in the incident with the same result.

 

While it is sad when a motorcyclist dies, it too is sad when anyone dies before their time. We aren't really any different of more special because we CHOOSE to ride on two wheels.

 

Take a breath and step back off of your high horse or soap box and look at the real world.

you are 100 % right on. we are humans and we all make many mistakes every day of our lives. there is a difference between people making an error in judgement, and just not caring and taking their half out of the middle. people who blatantly break the law and don't care about anyone but themselves should be treated as the felons they are. unfortionately they get away with it most of their lives. people who make a mistake in judgement should be judged upon it accordingly. i have made mistakes in my life that could have cost me or someone else their life if the circumstances would have aligned their selves, as i'm sure everyone has, and i thought after i did it ,where is my mind. i did'nt do it with intent, i'm just human and not perfect. i hate it when i make an error in judgement and penalize my self mentally for doing it. i hope i never make that ultmate mistake that results in someone being hurt or killed, but no one can make that garrantee cuz we are in the end ,still human. the best thing we can do is try hard to drive carefully, obey the law, and try hard not to make that ultimate mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[James Ardrey]

There is a reason situations like most of those mentioned are called ACCIDENTS!. There was no intent to harm by their action, there was no deliberate or gross negligence.

 

We all have caused things bad to happen that we didn't intend on happening, but they did. We committed the error on ACCIDENT!

 

If there is CRIMINAL violation that causes the bad thing to happen then the penalty should be stiffer. Most traffic violations are infractions (depending on the state), not a misdemeanor or felony (i.e. speeding, failure to yield).

 

So what needs to happen is for folks to take a breath and put the lynching ropes away and look at the situation without the emotion. I don't see people wanting to prosecute everyone that hits a pedestrian or does something that is deemed and ACCIDENT!

 

We chose to ride a motorcycle knowing the dangers and the risks, just as we do in allot of other things in life. While we do what we can to avoid the other guy, sometimes S*H*I*T* happens.

 

We don't look to hang other motorcyclists that are found a fault in an accident. We all drive a car too and we can make a mistake and cause and ACCIDENT!

 

I think the fines would be the same if it was another vehicle involved in the incident with the same result.

 

While it is sad when a motorcyclist dies, it too is sad when anyone dies before their time. We aren't really any different of more special because we CHOOSE to ride on two wheels.

 

Take a breath and step back off of your high horse or soap box and look at the real world.

I agree 100% and you beat me to the same points that I would make except with much more eloquence.

[MrRadi8]

The only way to get cager's attention, to get them to start actively "LOOKING" for motorcycles and pedestrians (instead of just waiting for the motorcycle to come into their current field of vision) is to severely punish the offenders. I'm not enough of a politician or polical activist to know the best way to get this done, though.

 

Until then, ride like you are invisible.

 

They pull out in front of me in my Suburban. They aren't looking period. And they don't care.

[MrRadi8]

I saw yesterday that a woman ran a stop sign, hit a school bus and killed 4 kids. She was charged with 4 counts of vehicular homicide. While this is a tragedy, my question is this: Is one life worth more than another? Why aren't the same charges filed in all cases resulting in a death? Is there an emotional factor involved in deciding what charges to file? Just my thoughts about it.

 

She was an illegal alien not a senator.

[MrRadi8]

There is a reason situations like most of those mentioned are called ACCIDENTS!. There was no intent to harm by their action, there was no deliberate or gross negligence.

 

We all have caused things bad to happen that we didn't intend on happening, but they did. We committed the error on ACCIDENT!

 

If there is CRIMINAL violation that causes the bad thing to happen then the penalty should be stiffer. Most traffic violations are infractions (depending on the state), not a misdemeanor or felony (i.e. speeding, failure to yield).

 

So what needs to happen is for folks to take a breath and put the lynching ropes away and look at the situation without the emotion. I don't see people wanting to prosecute everyone that hits a pedestrian or does something that is deemed and ACCIDENT!

 

We chose to ride a motorcycle knowing the dangers and the risks, just as we do in allot of other things in life. While we do what we can to avoid the other guy, sometimes S*H*I*T* happens.

 

We don't look to hang other motorcyclists that are found a fault in an accident. We all drive a car too and we can make a mistake and cause and ACCIDENT!

 

I think the fines would be the same if it was another vehicle involved in the incident with the same result.

 

While it is sad when a motorcyclist dies, it too is sad when anyone dies before their time. We aren't really any different of more special because we CHOOSE to ride on two wheels.

 

Take a breath and step back off of your high horse or soap box and look at the real world.

 

It is not an ACCIDENT. It is a failure to control the vehicle and yield right of way. Not bothering to look properly is not an accident. It is gross negligence that results in death.

Not so very long ago the same ACCIDENT attitude was attributed to drunk drivers hitting other people. That changed, as this "driving without due diligence" should change.

And if the pedestrian was hit in the cross walk where they had right of way, there are plenty of people rallying for the driver's head.

[Freebird]

She was an illegal alien not a senator.

 

Not only was she illegal but she had been stopped and cited for driving without a license about a year ago and then released instead of being deported. No license, no insurance, illegal....just cited and released. Something is wrong with this picture.

[Yammer Dan]

Want to reply with my heart instead of my head in this one. Sure there are accidents. Stuff happens!! But the one that got me has history of being High or Drunk all the time. He now thinks it is funnny that this didn't cost him anything. It sure cost me!! Could something have been done by the Deputy? Of course it could have. Insurance company still dragging its feet. Get off my High Horse or Soap Box???? NOT THIS TIME!!!! I'll take my steel leg and beat him over the head!!!

[royalstarjac]

I still contend that we have to look at the INTENT or lack thereof in the majority of accidents.

 

I agree that we all probably have periods of inattention or do more than one thing when we are driving, professional driver or not.

 

If we have a crash or accident, we usually didn't intend on it happening, but it did..... stuff happens.

 

Should we all be held to the fullest extent of the law in every instance.

 

Don't forget that the majority of those in accidents or crashes where someone dies merely made an error, unfortunate as it was, it was still an error.

 

Their lives are probably ruined in many ways without putting them all in jail. It is sad for all parties involved.

 

We need to hold people accountable in ALL aspects, lets start with the true criminals and work our way down from there.

 

The lynch all "cagers" who make an error mentality of this post almost makes think many of you think you are better or special just because you ride a motorcycle. Nobody makes us ride, we do it by choice knowing the risks.

 

As riders we ride with our eyes wide open and we are usually more aware of other riders when we are in our vehicles, but that doesn't make us any better people or any less capable of having something bad happen because we make a mistake, have an accident or a crash!

 

I don't see anyone here ready to hang a person on a motorcycle who injures another person on a motorcycle because they make a mistake while riding and cause a crash/accident. Same set of circumstances, just different vehicles

 

Put your ropes away and maybe do something to assist in the education process instead of wanting to jail someone or add more ruination to their live then they have already added to it all by themselves.

 

Dropping a gun isn't necessarily a misuse of it, it isn't a good thing.. .but... I am sure we have all dropped something dangerous with out any ill intentions. Most guns these days won't go off if dropped, even if they are cocked and locked.....

 

bad analogy if you ask me

 

 

 

If I am target shooting in my back yard and an errant shot kills someone 1/2 mile away do you think it will be called an accident by law enforcement? NO! I will be charged with manslaughter or ciminally negligent homicide regardless of my lack of intent. The same rules should apply to motorists who kill another through their negligence.

[juggler]

I bet there were more circumstances than the fact she simply ran the stopsign.

 

 

Yeah there are. She is an illegal alien and she was speeding, she did not have a drivers license or insurance. She sped though a railroad crossing and then though a stop sign broadsiding a school bus and flipping it onto it's side. She is still lying about who she is, where she is from and is claiming the bus hit her. There are plenty of witnesses to claim and prove otherwise.

 

What more do you need?

[Guest Popeye]

...the driver didn't see the motorcycle...

 

This logic states that if I run a red light & kill people, I'm only to be fined for Not Seeing the signal?

[BobanVal]

Last May in Nova Scotia, five people were killed when a woman crossed the double yellow on a two lane highway. Two oncoming motorcycles crashed into the passenger side of the car killing the driver's daughter who was in the passenger seat. The other four deaths were the people on the two bikes. The driver has admitted to crossing the line and got a $279 fine. The son of the driver on the lead bike is suing.

Makes you head spin in more ways than one.

http://halifax.metronews.ca/index.cfm?sid=32805&sc=89

[papa smurf]

I think accidents should just be that.......we are all human.......one may get me one day.....but I really would not want to ruin another persons life over an accident......I learned to leave revenge behind a long, long time ago.

 

dont matter what ya call it. I don't wanna die due to an otherwise 'preventable' accident. And it's not about revenge. Nothing is gonna bring the deceased back. It's about encouraging and ENFORCING a new mindset that causes drivers of all vehicles to take it just a little more seriously. We need laws in place that would make folks think twice about texting while driving. We need laws and penalties in place that make someone look twice, and not just go ahead and pull out even though they can't see past the glare that's hiding a bike, a car, a suburban, or a school bus.

 

It's the "ounce of prevention" that is missing.

[Ferrantelli]

This is not about car against motorcycles, this about responsible operations of motor vehicles in general. Just because I choose to use a motorcycle or small car for transportation (as someone put it I choooose to ride a bike) I am partially at fault because I should have been in a 3 ton SUV. Hello! someone needs to think things over. And I am not part of any lynch mob, matter of fact I want to see if we can do anything however small to reduce these incidents. And they are not ACCIDENTS. An accident is not only something unintentional but also something you had no influence over. If you however unintentional make an error while operating a vehicle you neglected to do the right thing. GET IT NEGLIGENCE!

Edited February 26, 2009 by Ferrantelli

[Snarley Bill]

Want to reply with my heart instead of my head in this one. Sure there are accidents. Stuff happens!! But the one that got me has history of being High or Drunk all the time. He now thinks it is funnny that this didn't cost him anything. It sure cost me!! Could something have been done by the Deputy? Of course it could have. Insurance company still dragging its feet. Get off my High Horse or Soap Box???? NOT THIS TIME!!!! I'll take my steel leg and beat him over the head!!!

dan sounds like you got nailed by the felons i was talking about in my post. there are alot of them out there that unfortionately, get away with their unlawful ways. and people like you have to pay. sounds like you have an honest beef. bill

[DkKnight]

If you however unintentional make an error while operating a vehicle you neglected to do the right thing. GET IT NEGLIGENCE!

 

 

I guess then you have to apply the same logic to anything that you unintentionally fail to do, like overdraw your checking account, go the speed limit and get a ticket or anything that might have consequences.....

 

In that vein we are all negligent and should have the hammer dropped on us without mercy, regardless of the circumstances.

 

I have never said what happened was right, it is the lets make them pay for the rest of their lives, mentally, financially. S*H*I*T lets just set up a debtors prison for anyone who errs. I bet you might find more than a few of us there for being negligent

 

All that being said. I do agree with the education of people about doing other things while operating anything that can harm others. This thread started off innocently enough, but many have turned the tone into the us vs them.

 

Most of us become primarily "cage" operators during the winter months, so is it us against ourselves??

 

Those without blame can cast the first stone? Really how many of those are here? I know I'm not one of them.

[Yammer Dan]

I will pay for his stupidity the rest of my life.....

[Guest KitCarson]

Should I get involved in this.......gee......okay.....think I will say something and then just shut up....try to turn this thing around..

First I will agree with the drinking and driving comments.....I will give you all that one.......I also think anyone who gets on the road drunk needs to pay the penalty for whatever occurs.

But the rest of this stuff.....hey folks they are just unfortunate accidents. No one means to do them. We are not deliberately trying to hurt anyone, and we all do stupid things. I myself who is very aware of bikes.....have looked.....looked again.....pulled out.....and yep there he is, I just did the pull out in front of the bike thing......I did not mean to........I did look.......did you all know sometimes your brain does not see what your eyes do? I do not know how to explain it any better than that......but does happen.

All of you on this site are good people or you would not be here...you would have been weeded out already........just try to realize these things are accidents........and yes if it comes into your life it is a very sad and heartfelt thing........but it is best to just acknowledge to yourself it was an accident.....life goes on........Let God be the judge ....you will find he is a pretty forgiving judge.....much more so than we are. Now I will shut up!!

[Snarley Bill]

what you have to do is put a dividing line in this discussion.there is a difference between human error, and negligence. negligence is talking on the cell phone,intentionally running red lights, speeding, tailgating, sight seeing, etc. etc.. these things can be controlled by the individual. a human error is something that no matter how hard you try you have only so much control over. anybody that is a part of this thread who says they never make mistakes is full of crap. some mistakes can cause injury or death. if you slip with a knife and cut your finger it is a mistake in judgement that could have just as easily been another kind of mistake while driving a car or riding a bike, or climbing up on your roof.we just had a police officer get killed when he fell off his roof while putting a screen over his chimney to keep squirrels out. while he was doing it a squirrel popped out of the chimney and scared the hell out of him and he fell off the roof. his funeral was yesterday.true story.his mistake,no safety line. human error does kill and mame. to err is to be human,and vice versa. only one guy i know who is perfect, and he's alot bigger than us.

[Squidley]

Ok when do we as people start taking responsibility for our actions? When do we as people start teaching that even if it was an accident you are still responsible for its outcome. When do we start teaching that when you kill or cripple someone you are responsible for that accident or not. Forget the fines, forget who pays who, forget the lawyers and courts, when do the people who caused the accident start taking responsibility for their actions? How many times have you told your kids, "Don't worry it was an accident and not your fault it could have happened to anyone." Yea "stuff" happens and yes we who ride do so with the knowledge that someday sometime we may get hit but when will the ones who cause the accident take responsibility for their actions.

Auto accidents do not just happen they are caused by the inaction of another, not looking, not pay attention, talking on the phone, yelling at the kids in the backseat, fighting with the passenger what ever the reason you can't deny the fault is with the one who CAUSE the accident and that is the driver not the passenger, the driver is in control at all times. That person should take responsibility for their actions and own up to it. Want to make things better stop using your cell phone while driving and point out to your kids on how it is wrong to do. Point out to your kids how distracting it is when they fight in the car, pull the car over and tell them and spend some time doing it. Anytime something is going on and your distracted pull the car over and tell whoever that what they are doing is distracting. I did just that with my step-son once. He was acting up I asked him 3 times to knock it off and he didn’t. I pulled the over to the shoulder and he asked me what was I doing I told him “waiting for the state trouper to come along so you can explain to him why you feel you don’t have to behave in the car” he freaked. We sat there for 20 minutes and no cop (yea I know why is there never one around) but it worked he never acted up in the car again because he knew what was a possibility of happening. Somewhere along the line we as parents, teachers, who ever have forgotten to teach WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS and it’s time we start teaching that again. Remember when you kill someone you are responsible for that death because you were not paying attention at the time; it’s your fault you ended that persons life because you were too busy to pay attention.

And don’t even get me started on drinking and driving…….

 

 

I haven't wanted to get into this as I didn't want to throw fuel on the fire. But I totally agree with Paul in his statements that are highlighted. If you kill or maim someone due to your inattention, you need to be punished the same way you would punish a child for doing something wrong. It's the same concept, you are solely responsible for your actions....that has seemed to gotten lost in the last 30 years or so with life on this planet.

Some folks here are taking a purely non emotional look at this. This is good, but I can damn sure tell you that the mindset would be different if someone they loved were put into the equasion.

Now I'm off my soapbox.

[Yammer Dan]

Thats about what I was saying. If the guy that got me had just made a mistake and hit me I could forget it. He was high still drives that way and is laughing because this one didn't cost him anything. Forget it? Forgive?? HELL NO!!!!

[WIKD]

Giving people the excuse that it was just an accident is also giving them permission to drive around like there are no consequences to their actions. Yes I CAN throw the first stone since in the 25 years I've been on the road my actions have NEVER caused someone harm or death. Let me repeat that NEVER. All the people on this site seem to be good hearted people but I believe, and will never change my mind, that there are no accidents on the road. Put down the makeup, food, cell phone, lower the radio and pay attention. I do ride like everyone out there is trying to kill me so when that doesn't even prevent a very close call or worse then the person responsible will pay one way or the other. If they do me in there are 1000+ brothers out there to make sure some type of payment is made. If you truly believe that someone who is not paying attention while driving and does something wrong and hurts or kills a motorcyclist should be allowed to say it's just an accident then I feel sorry for you. You are whats wrong with society today.

[Guest itsazoo]

All accidents are just that and very sad for all involved. Intent is another matter.

Drive truck for twenty years and you'll get a bird's eye view of stupidity at it's finest and hear stories that would make your toes curl.

Whether any of you want to believe this or not...the LACK of driver's education in our schools has caused ALL of this. Teenager's want to drive cars as soon as they can but long before they know the first thing about controlling a car safely down the road. It's an absolute outrage! It reminds me of a story of a sixteen year old girl who ran a stop sign at night and drove her new mustang under the pup trailer of a semi. IF it would have killed the trucker and the girl...who's fault was it??? Should we penalize the parents for letting her drive or the state for issueing her license? You can punish and regulate until your blue in the face...but until you get to the root of the problem...you'll still be at risk on a motorcycle...or on the road as a pedestrian or in a car for that matter. And it's getting worse as time goes on. Those who think you can regulate stupidity are fooling themselves. Like seat belts...I can drive faster now...I'm wearing a seat belt. Or the twenty year old girl who rolled on her top in front of me in pouring down rain knocking over a light pole. The first words out of her mouth as I helped her from the back door window. "My boyfriends going to kill me"! Good thing she was wearing a seat belt or he wouldn't of had to.

It's a given that those growing up will eventually drive...yet we wait until they're 14 or 15 to start training them how to drive. Unfortunately, as we've allowed this speed course in drivers education to continue, we now have drivers out there with all the insurance in the world and believe they know everything about driving. They don't share the road. They cut in and out of traffic. They tailgate. They speed...ect. AND...because of the one term mandantory driver education class they took in school and simple driving test they were given by their particular state...they were allowed to get their license. Now we're seeing the result's. To be responsible anymore, you almost have be clarivoiant. Everyone need's to learn how to share the road and realize the dangers if the don't. They should have mandatory driver's training classes from the first grade on. And I know this sounds ridiculous...but I can remember watching an animated program when I was a child on television back in the 50's about the causes of accident's. I think it was put on by an insurance company...but not sure. I'm sure someone else can remember those short films. Where did they go? It certainly had an influence on me to look out for the other guy.

And I'm thinking of driving my new 83 Yamaha Venture on the road????? Maybe I should get some psychiatric help instead.

Remember...the most dangerous mile is the one ahead.

 

AS THE NAME IMPLIES

itsazoo