Kill Two, Pay $65

[Ferrantelli]

A recent case in Iowa. A pickup truck driver pulled out from a side road into the pat of a motorcycle. The two people on the bike, Florida residents Benjiman D'Amico, 58, and his wife, Linda, 59, were both killed. The local prosecutor determined that it was an accident, the driver didn't see the motorcycle and that there were no grounds for any other charges except failure to yield. In the end, two motorcyclist lost their lives, and the driver was fined $65.

 

Involuntary manslaughter sounds like a good start to me.

[george c]

A recent case in Iowa. A pickup truck driver pulled out from a side road into the pat of a motorcycle. The two people on the bike, Florida residents Benjiman D'Amico, 58, and his wife, Linda, 59, were both killed. The local prosecutor determined that it was an accident, the driver didn't see the motorcycle and that there were no grounds for any other charges except failure to yield. In the end, two motorcyclist lost their lives, and the driver was fined $65.

 

Involuntary manslaughter sounds like a good start to me.

 

i no this all too well

we lost my son at the age of 24 last April

the man that ran a red light was only charged with running a red light and for not having valued insurance

i am still trying to get charges filed on this

George C.

[Yammer Dan]

CrackHead that nailed me was not charged with anything.

[papa smurf]

The only way to get cager's attention, to get them to start actively "LOOKING" for motorcycles and pedestrians (instead of just waiting for the motorcycle to come into their current field of vision) is to severely punish the offenders. I'm not enough of a politician or polical activist to know the best way to get this done, though.

 

Until then, ride like you are invisible.

[Ferrantelli]

I ride in and around New York city, I ride to work when ever I can 80 miles round trip. 2-3 times a day my right of way is violated. All I get is an apologetic wave as to say "sorry didn't see you". A lot of good that will do me or my family if they hit me.

[mraf]

Seems to me, just thinking out loud now, that if your fines to the state for killing two people only amounts to $65.00. Whats the point of the fine in the beginning? The accused should at the very least be ordered to pay for the FULL burial expenses of those that he has departed! Sad and seemingly unfair justice still abounds in the legal system.

[Bigfoot]

Seems to me, just thinking out loud now, that if your fines to the state for killing two people only amounts to $65.00. Whats the point of the fine in the beginning? The accused should at the very least be ordered to pay for the FULL burial expenses of those that he has departed! Sad and seemingly unfair justice still abounds in the legal system.

 

I know this won't be popular but I've worked in the system for nearly 29 years. The judges hands are tied in cases such as this and has to hand down a fine commiserate to the charge. They don't like it anymore than we do. But it's the prosecutors who decide the charges and sometimes they can do nothing more than a traffic ticket. Now when a judge hands down a fine in a case where someone is hurt or killed they know that doesn't help the families of the victim at all. The judges know that the only recourse is for the family to take the person to civil court. This doesn't always work if the person has nothing to give but the judges can do nothing about it.

As bad as it seems imagine a family member of yours, say an 18 year old daughter who'se never been in trouble a single day in her life. She is out shopping one day and due to the bright sun doesn't see a MC coming her way and she pulls out causing the MC to strike her. This person is killed or hurt bad. Can you imagine seeing someone calling for her to be tried for manslaughter? I can't. There are plenty of people who deserve the charge of involuntary manslaughter but some are just plain terrible accidents. Just imagine one of your family members making a mistake one day and you having to wonder why they have to go to prison for an honest mistake.

It's not always a black and white situation.

[PGunn]

May 9 1979 1:30 in the afternoon clear blue sky 80 degrees a woman makes a left turn right in front of me when I was doing 35 MPH. I was lucky I ended up under the front of her car. I laid my bike down ended up rolling down the street slamming up under her car and my bike missed my head by about 12 inches. After explaining to someone how to shut off the ignition to keep things from going from bad to worse and starting a fire it was time to go to the hospital. In the hospital I found out I had 3 broken ribs a punctured and collapsed lung, dislocated knee, damaged kidney along with a bunch of cuts and scrapes and I won't even go into the "we need to check for internal bleeding" and "this is going to feel like a garden hose going in". What did she get... absolutely nothing not even a ticket, She was driving her husbands company car and the company took care of the whole thing and her excuse the usual "I did not see him". Now you have a black motorcycle coming right at you with the head light on and you didn't see it, must have blended into the blacktop.....

They do need to penalize anyone who uses the I didn't see him excuse or anything of the other excuses that are used and paying out of ones pocket is the best way to do it, hurt them where it will get their attention and this means no insurance coverage it has to come out of their pocket.

[thumper1]

first, hang up the phone and drive. it's a car not a phone booth.

ride safe and be cool, thumper1

[midnightventure]

I too have been injured in a accident caused by another. She wasn't issued a ticket because the Highway Patrolmen said it was a bad spot. Her insurance company did pay because she didn't allow me my whole half of the road. I don't agree with extreme penalties for an accident. I do agree with trying to educate car drivers to be more aware of motorcycles but I would hate to see a young persons life ruined because of a mistake that almost all of us could have made when we were young. Now somebody that just keeps on being stupid like the politician from South Dakota should have the book thrown at them. I also feel that somebody that choses to drink and drive should be severely punished.

[starcruiser]

I saw yesterday that a woman ran a stop sign, hit a school bus and killed 4 kids. She was charged with 4 counts of vehicular homicide. While this is a tragedy, my question is this: Is one life worth more than another? Why aren't the same charges filed in all cases resulting in a death? Is there an emotional factor involved in deciding what charges to file? Just my thoughts about it.

[Yammer Dan]

The Crack-Head that hit me was not charged by the Deputy that investigated the accident. I will never understand this. He looked right at me saw the lights but pulled into the road and got me never letting off the gas or touching the brake. Said he saw lights but didn't see me. It still wakes me up at night. He is going to wake up one of these nights and I'm going to be sitting on his chest. See if he thinks it is funny it didn't cost him anything then!!!

[DkKnight]

There is a reason situations like most of those mentioned are called ACCIDENTS!. There was no intent to harm by their action, there was no deliberate or gross negligence.

 

We all have caused things bad to happen that we didn't intend on happening, but they did. We committed the error on ACCIDENT!

 

If there is CRIMINAL violation that causes the bad thing to happen then the penalty should be stiffer. Most traffic violations are infractions (depending on the state), not a misdemeanor or felony (i.e. speeding, failure to yield).

 

So what needs to happen is for folks to take a breath and put the lynching ropes away and look at the situation without the emotion. I don't see people wanting to prosecute everyone that hits a pedestrian or does something that is deemed and ACCIDENT!

 

We chose to ride a motorcycle knowing the dangers and the risks, just as we do in allot of other things in life. While we do what we can to avoid the other guy, sometimes S*H*I*T* happens.

 

We don't look to hang other motorcyclists that are found a fault in an accident. We all drive a car too and we can make a mistake and cause and ACCIDENT!

 

I think the fines would be the same if it was another vehicle involved in the incident with the same result.

 

While it is sad when a motorcyclist dies, it too is sad when anyone dies before their time. We aren't really any different of more special because we CHOOSE to ride on two wheels.

 

Take a breath and step back off of your high horse or soap box and look at the real world.

[DkKnight]

I saw yesterday that a woman ran a stop sign, hit a school bus and killed 4 kids. She was charged with 4 counts of vehicular homicide. While this is a tragedy, my question is this: Is one life worth more than another? Why aren't the same charges filed in all cases resulting in a death? Is there an emotional factor involved in deciding what charges to file? Just my thoughts about it.

 

I bet there were more circumstances than the fact she simply ran the stopsign.

[Jethroish]

Had a 17 year old girl make a left in front of me last fall (in the cage). Three witness told cops it was her fault.

She did not even get a failure to yeild ticket.

Totaled both vehicles.

[Ferrantelli]

-the word accident should not be used it is a CRASH

-the last time I looked the word involuntary means not done by choice

-everyone should be accountable for their actions

-most take driving too lightly

-we should not forget the victims not just remember the drivers

-if I misused a gun drop it and it fires killing someone, it was an accident. NO! It was not it was a result of my inappropriate action

-a car is a 3,000 lb bullet

-until we recognize this we will never agree

-I drive for a living and take it very seriously

-a car is not an appliance or a video game

-one does not need to go far to see inadequate drivers your local shopping center will do

-we must hold people responsible for their action only then driving may be taken for the serious privilege that it is

[DkKnight]

I still contend that we have to look at the INTENT or lack thereof in the majority of accidents.

 

I agree that we all probably have periods of inattention or do more than one thing when we are driving, professional driver or not.

 

If we have a crash or accident, we usually didn't intend on it happening, but it did..... stuff happens.

 

Should we all be held to the fullest extent of the law in every instance.

 

Don't forget that the majority of those in accidents or crashes where someone dies merely made an error, unfortunate as it was, it was still an error.

 

Their lives are probably ruined in many ways without putting them all in jail. It is sad for all parties involved.

 

We need to hold people accountable in ALL aspects, lets start with the true criminals and work our way down from there.

 

The lynch all "cagers" who make an error mentality of this post almost makes think many of you think you are better or special just because you ride a motorcycle. Nobody makes us ride, we do it by choice knowing the risks.

 

As riders we ride with our eyes wide open and we are usually more aware of other riders when we are in our vehicles, but that doesn't make us any better people or any less capable of having something bad happen because we make a mistake, have an accident or a crash!

 

I don't see anyone here ready to hang a person on a motorcycle who injures another person on a motorcycle because they make a mistake while riding and cause a crash/accident. Same set of circumstances, just different vehicles

 

Put your ropes away and maybe do something to assist in the education process instead of wanting to jail someone or add more ruination to their live then they have already added to it all by themselves.

 

Dropping a gun isn't necessarily a misuse of it, it isn't a good thing.. .but... I am sure we have all dropped something dangerous with out any ill intentions. Most guns these days won't go off if dropped, even if they are cocked and locked.....

 

bad analogy if you ask me

[flb_78]

There is a reason situations like most of those mentioned are called ACCIDENTS!. There was no intent to harm by their action, there was no deliberate or gross negligence.

 

We all have caused things bad to happen that we didn't intend on happening, but they did. We committed the error on ACCIDENT!

 

If there is CRIMINAL violation that causes the bad thing to happen then the penalty should be stiffer. Most traffic violations are infractions (depending on the state), not a misdemeanor or felony (i.e. speeding, failure to yield).

 

So what needs to happen is for folks to take a breath and put the lynching ropes away and look at the situation without the emotion. I don't see people wanting to prosecute everyone that hits a pedestrian or does something that is deemed and ACCIDENT!

 

We chose to ride a motorcycle knowing the dangers and the risks, just as we do in allot of other things in life. While we do what we can to avoid the other guy, sometimes S*H*I*T* happens.

 

We don't look to hang other motorcyclists that are found a fault in an accident. We all drive a car too and we can make a mistake and cause and ACCIDENT!

 

I think the fines would be the same if it was another vehicle involved in the incident with the same result.

 

While it is sad when a motorcyclist dies, it too is sad when anyone dies before their time. We aren't really any different of more special because we CHOOSE to ride on two wheels.

 

Take a breath and step back off of your high horse or soap box and look at the real world.

 

 

 

+1

 

Shouldn't go to jail and ruin their life. It was not intentional. They'll have to wake up everyday knowing they killed someone.

 

I don't care about a 65 dollar fine. That money goes to the government anyways and they'll waste it on something stupid. Instead, the families of the motorcyclists take the driver and the insurance company to court to pay for everything. At least then the money goes to a cause.

[WIKD]

I'm not going to get into a debate about what should happen. There are no accidents, if the person was paying attention 90% of the time there would not have been a crash. My philosophy is simple and I apologize for none of it. Violate my space while on a motorcycle and you WILL receive property damage or bodily injury. NO exceptions. Ridicule my way of doing things all you want but I guarantee someone elses life has been saved by the fact that those I have encountered now look for motorcyclist a lot more for fear of reprisals.

Oh and by the way, flame all you want, not going to hurt my feelings or change my mind one bit.

[PGunn]

Ok when do we as people start taking responsibility for our actions? When do we as people start teaching that even if it was an accident you are still responsible for its outcome. When do we start teaching that when you kill or cripple someone you are responsible for that accident or not. Forget the fines, forget who pays who, forget the lawyers and courts, when do the people who caused the accident start taking responsibility for their actions? How many times have you told your kids, "Don't worry it was an accident and not your fault it could have happened to anyone." Yea "stuff" happens and yes we who ride do so with the knowledge that someday sometime we may get hit but when will the ones who cause the accident take responsibility for their actions.

Auto accidents do not just happen they are caused by the inaction of another, not looking, not pay attention, talking on the phone, yelling at the kids in the backseat, fighting with the passenger what ever the reason you can't deny the fault is with the one who CAUSE the accident and that is the driver not the passenger, the driver is in control at all times. That person should take responsibility for their actions and own up to it. Want to make things better stop using your cell phone while driving and point out to your kids on how it is wrong to do. Point out to your kids how distracting it is when they fight in the car, pull the car over and tell them and spend some time doing it. Anytime something is going on and your distracted pull the car over and tell whoever that what they are doing is distracting. I did just that with my step-son once. He was acting up I asked him 3 times to knock it off and he didn’t. I pulled the over to the shoulder and he asked me what was I doing I told him “waiting for the state trouper to come along so you can explain to him why you feel you don’t have to behave in the car” he freaked. We sat there for 20 minutes and no cop (yea I know why is there never one around) but it worked he never acted up in the car again because he knew what was a possibility of happening. Somewhere along the line we as parents, teachers, who ever have forgotten to teach WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS and it’s time we start teaching that again. Remember when you kill someone you are responsible for that death because you were not paying attention at the time; it’s your fault you ended that persons life because you were too busy to pay attention.

And don’t even get me started on drinking and driving…….

[gibvel]

As others have said, we ride, knowing the danger and yet...we still ride.

 

You know, this is nothing new! It has been this way since motorcycles have been ridden on the streets. We know that people don't look out for bikes. We know they do stupid stuff...how many times have WE done stupid things in a cage or on a bike and thought..."man am I lucky that that didn't turn out worse". We all have lapses in concentration and distractions while driving.

 

Yesterday in the Wal-Mart parking lot I was on my way out and saw a lady coming out of one of the lanes. She slowed but didn't stop and was looking the other way, messing with something on the seat next to her. I knew that she hadn't seen me and that she'd probably go without looking and seeing me so I slowed to, practically, a stop. She finally looked and saw me and stopped but I was ready for anything.

 

Fact is, we can't rely on the other guy, the cage drivers, the other motorcyclists, the insurance companies, the courts system or anyone or anything else. WE have to take matters into our own hands. Ride like your life depends on it because it most certainly does. We can't think, of the other driver, "Oh, they'll stop", "they won't pull out in front of me", "they see me". We have to think They're not going to stop, they WILL pull out in front of me, They DON'T see me and take actions to save our own lives. If we're not willing to do this we should hang up the gear and drive or walk.

 

Now I'm not saying I condone what the idiots who drive do today...Cell phones, eating while driving, playing Mario Andretti (or Jeff Gordon, or Dale Ernhardt or whoever), "I'm late for work so everyone get out of my way so I can speed and make it on time and eat my breakfast and shave and call the office and let them know I may be late...". But the fact is that there are already laws in some states against driving while talking on a cell phone and, guess what, I see about 25%, if not more, of the drivers on the interstate talking on their cell phones. Or eating while they drive...while they drive very badly!! This stuff will not change in my life time!!! There aren't enough LEOs to bust everyone and if there were, most of the people would be back to doing the same stuff right away anyway.

 

The fact is, we have to take matters into our own hands. We have to be perfect in everything we do...or really, really lucky when we have a lapse in judgment or concentration and nobody here can say that they haven't had that happen.

 

Were that the world were a different place, but it's not!

[BEER30]

I've had it !!!!!

 

I'm going out into the garage right now to build me a magnetic force field generator to protect myself and rider from all the cagers . Then to ride down to the DMV and place a small motorcycle icon into the machine that does the testing for the eye exam , you know the one where it has all the international road sign shapes . Perhaps this icon will help the ignorant to see what we look like !

 

And perhaps the commicozzi crotch rockets are right in the way they ride . At least people notice them and they are smaller bikes !

 

If this doesn't work , I'm going to go buy me a small secluded island with no one else on it to ride my scoot . Man , I'm going to get dizzy riding in a circle !:rotf::rotf:

 

 

BEER30

[papa smurf]

-the word accident should not be used it is a CRASH

-the last time I looked the word involuntary means not done by choice

-everyone should be accountable for their actions

-most take driving too lightly

-we should not forget the victims not just remember the drivers

-if I misused a gun drop it and it fires killing someone, it was an accident. NO! It was not it was a result of my inappropriate action

-a car is a 3,000 lb bullet

-until we recognize this we will never agree

-I drive for a living and take it very seriously

-a car is not an appliance or a video game

-one does not need to go far to see inadequate drivers your local shopping center will do

-we must hold people responsible for their action only then driving may be taken for the serious privilege that it is

 

 

wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. regarding riding, I have replaced the word ACCIDENT with the word CRASH. one of the books on riding that i read convinced me of the logic, wish i could remember the title.

 

good comments, and I agree with all of them. I also agree that as a rider, we made the choice to ride. and we have to assume there is a deer standing in the road around every blind corner, nobody's turn signal's work, if their turn signal is on, they don't know it, their mirrors are not adjusted, the car waiting to pull out does not see you, when you are approaching a stop sign or red light, the car behind you does not see it or you, all the rest.

 

not to be a paranoid, but when you get on a bike, you gotta acknowledge these things.

[Ferrantelli]

Now that we all express our feelings and emotions, we need to capitalize on this. We may disagree on the type of punishment or who was wrong and so on, but I think we agree that many incidents can be avoided. This is not just for the biker's sake but for everyone. We are on the road and so are our loved ones in what ever vehicles. We need to come together, come up with some possible solutions big or small use as many resources we can muster and see if we can make a difference. As the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We can continue on this tread or start a new one. I encourage everyone to participate and post ideas or ask for assistance. I have some ideas to begin, let me know if there is support out there.

[juggler]

This is something that I've written about on my website in the past. I'm advocating second degree murder charges for someone that kills a person while committing a criminal offense while driving. Ie Kill someone while committing DUI then it should be second degree murder. Driving recklessly and kill someone? Second degree murder. in Minnesota the most anyone here gets charged with is vehicular homicide which carries a minimum of a $6,000 fine and up to 10 years in jail.

 

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