Solenoid won't engage, it just chatters

[HBAndrew]

I need some help! I have a 89 Royale. The starter solenoid chatters when I try to start the bike. I have replaced the battery. It is good and has good voltage (approximately 13.4 volts). I disassembled and cleaned the starter switch thinking that the contacts were dirty. That did not help. I hooked up a rechargeable battery jumper and still get a solenoid chatter. If I jump the solenoid terminals the bike cranks. What am I missing??? This has me baffled, it has to be something simple. I need some thoughts on this.

[Prairiehammer]

If I jump the solenoid terminals the bike cranks.

 

This has me baffled, it has to be something simple.

 

I think it IS pretty simple. You have a bad solenoid. Contacts are probably burnt. I would replace it. An alternative to the pricey Yamaha is a 1970's Ford starter solenoid. It will function just fine for the job, but depending on the particular Ford solenoid you get, there may be some McGyvering for the mounting.

[HBAndrew]

I never even thought of the solenoid going bad. I'll pick one up after work and give it a try. Hopefully It'll be running by tomorrow night.

[Flyinfool]

A couple more tests you can run.

 

Hook a jumper from the small terminal on the solenoid to battery negative.

If it cranks, you have a bad wire or connection to track down.

 

If it still chatters, check all of the connections. Not just the part of the terminal under the screw or nut, but also check the connection of the terminal to the wire.

 

If all of this is to no avail then it is more likely to be a bad solenoid.

[dingy]

Link below is some pictures of a solenoid dissection I did.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=64567

 

Gary

[HBAndrew]

ok, I'm going to pick up an auto solenoid, jump the small terminal on the solenoid to battery negative and see if she turns over. If it still chatters I'm going to do a little MacGyver action and install the new solenoid check all wires and connections.

[HBAndrew]

After removing, testing, and replacing the solenoid and replacing a couple of connectors that appeared to be corroded I got the solenoid to engage.

Now it appears that I have a different and maybe related problem.

The starter will not turn the engine over!

It turns over just like the battery is low. I even tried a larger battery but still no crank!

The ground cable going from the battery to the engine block was replaced last year so I don't think it is a bad ground.

I'm thinking the starter is worn out. Are parts or a replacement starter available???

[dingy]

After removing, testing, and replacing the solenoid and replacing a couple of connectors that appeared to be corroded I got the solenoid to engage.

Now it appears that I have a different and maybe related problem.

The starter will not turn the engine over!

It turns over just like the battery is low. I even tried a larger battery but still no crank!

The ground cable going from the battery to the engine block was replaced last year so I don't think it is a bad ground.

I'm thinking the starter is worn out. Are parts or a replacement starter available???

 

Try bypassing the solenoid completely. It appears in 1st post you did this though.

 

Put bike on center stand.

Put transmission in Neutral.

Attach a battery jumper cable to positive battery post.

Attach other end of cable to either starter input lead on starter or lead on solenoid going to starter. - If starter is good, the motor should crank over (it probably will spark a little at point where last connection is made, this is normal) . Note, this will bypass all safety circuits to prevent motor from cranking in gear.

 

If motor cranks, starter is probably not the problem.

 

Gary

[HBAndrew]

Bike is on the center stand with kickstand up and in neutral.

tried to bypass everything by going directly to the cable on the solenoid and directly to ground.

no joy! Looks like the starter has seen better days.

At least my Kawi runs!

[Venturous Randy]

I suggest going all the way to the starter with you hot wire.

There was a four brush starter on ebay starting at $50, but I don't see it now. It may have been sold. Any of the 2nd gen 1300 engines have a four brush starter.

You should not be going to ground from the solenoid. Something is not making sense to me what you are saying.

RandyA

[HBAndrew]

Using jumper cables, I connected the positive directly to the solenoid from the battery and then I connected the ground cable directly to the engine then to the battery. The starter tried to turn over but never fully cranked.

[Flyinfool]

You should not be going to ground from the solenoid. Something is not making sense to me what you are saying.

RandyA

 

What he did is correct, the small terminal on the solenoid needs a grond to activate the solenoid. The start switch normally supplies this ground.

 

Using jumper cables, I connected the positive directly to the solenoid from the battery and then I connected the ground cable directly to the engine then to the battery. The starter tried to turn over but never fully cranked.

 

With your positive jumper, go from the battery Positive directly to the stud on the starter to eliminate any bad cables in the system as a possibility.

[dingy]

What he did is correct, the small terminal on the solenoid needs a grond to activate the solenoid. The start switch normally supplies this ground.

 

Following what I outlined in post #8, no ground is needed.

 

Intent was to put 12v+ directly to starter lead, either at starter itself, or at solenoid on side that went to starter.

 

Purpose was to bypass solenoid contacts, this should confirm if starter is good, it will not fully confirm it is bad however.

To determine if it starter has failed, a second connection to a clean spot on starter housing, directly from negative battery terminal should be tried if positive lead does not crank motor. With the ground connection directly to starter, poor ground connections would be eliminated.

 

There is conflicting information from poster in this thread. In 1st post he said bypassing solenoid did crank motor.

 

Gary

[HBAndrew]

1. Originally the solenoid chattered.


1. problem solved, installed new solenoid and changed control circuit terminal end.
   

[*]In my first post I was not clear regarding the bike cranking. It did turn over when I originally posted this but it turned over like our "hot start" situation. The bike was cold at the time.

[*]Ever since I bought this bike it has always turned over very slow compared to my Kawasaki. The Venture has always appeared to "struggle" to turn thru the compression stroke.

[*]New problem, after replacing the solenoid and terminal end the starter will not turn thru the compression stroke. The starter tries to turn and simply stops when the cylinder comes up on compression. starter is not turning over the engine.

[*]To check the starter I connected jumper cables (+) to the starter cable on the solenoid and to the engine case (-). I then connected the cables directly to a battery. The starter still acted like the battery was dead. This electric source I used for this test was a rechargeable battery jump starter of adequate size to start a small car and it was fully charged. Gary - I followed you suggestions to a "T"

I will bypass all circuitry tonight and connect a battery directly to the starter terminal (+) and to the starter housing (-).

 

Sorry if I have confused anyone.

 

1. 
   

[HBAndrew]

Time for a new starter!

Thanks for the help with the solenoid problem.

[Trader]

Remember....look for a 2nd gen starter with 4 brushes.

 

It will eliminate the slow crank when hot issue.

[saddlebum]

Another thing to try :

 

1. Hook a volt meter up to your battery and note the voltage
   
2. Crank the engine again noting the voltage while cranking
   
3. If the starter turns sluggishly or barely at all and the voltage drops way down you have (A) a bad battery or (B) If you know beyond a doubt that the battery is good, you have a bad starter
   
4. If the the starter turns sluggishly and the voltage barely drops. then you most likely have a bad connection ( this however could include bad brush contact within the starter)
   
5. If you get the results in step (4) progressively move the voltmeter (+ Pos.) lead closer to the starter one connection point at a time (a second voltmeter is nice at this point so you can compare but not mandatory) until you do get a major voltage drop. You have just narrowed it down to were the bad connection lies, which is between the point of your recent major drop and your last minor drop.
   
6. If you make it all the way to the starter without a major voltage drop repeat the test leaving the POS. test lead connected the battery and moving the NEG lead along the connection points towards the starter.
   
7. If after testing both side of your circuit and failing to find a voltage drop anywhere between the battery and the starter then the poor connection is within the starter itself
   
8. NOTE: this test is a lot simpler than it sounds when you read it and probably takes less time to do than it does to read it as well.
   

[HBAndrew]

It has been in the upper 90º here in Minnesota, to hot to work in the garage last week. jJust got back to the problem this weekend.

The last test I did was to disconnect the cable from the starter and hook the positive (+) jumper to the starter and battery, and connect the negative (-) cable to the engine block. I connected the other end of the jumper to a battery and the starter attempted to turn until the engine came up to compression then it would not turn thru compression and crank the engine. I am looking for a four brush starter.